The Batsman Formely Known as Mahendra Dhoni

[saneindian]

LOL True.I agree with most part' date=' [b']but saying Dhoni does better than Sachin under pressure situations. Opening the batting is more pressurizing than facing the old ball.And Sachin has done that magnificently, and opener rarely finishes the game, so Dhoni can be called a great finisher rather than Best ODI batsman that is what i am trying to convey to Vaibhav

Of course thats stretching it a little too far. and the rest of what you say is perfectly correct!

[saneindian]

dhoni's 183 certainly classifies imo http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/223634.html

Yeah thats correct. perhaps this knock by Dada as well. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64632.html 153* out of 261!! WOW. Nearly 60% of team runs. Wonder why this innings is never talked about much.

[vaibhav_delhi]

Opening the batting is more pressurizing than facing the old ball

once read gambhir's interview where he said opening is the easiest job as it has comparatively least pressure. now, although he was being humble, I'd still say finishing has more pressures than opening in most occasions, quite obviously i would have thought

[ZodiaC]

Gaurav, I would love to see the innings where Sachin or for that matter any other batsman "single handedly" won a match for the team. I can bet that in cricket history such innings can be counted on finger tips and you wont have any grey hairs counting them! Everytime there has been a Sachin(or for that matter any other batsman) hitting a 100 and leading us to win, there has been some other batsma(e)n supporting him at the other end. It's a team game end of the day and one man alone will not win you a match. I would love to be proved wrong though.

Off the top of my head: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64658.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/238189.html

[ZodiaC]

Yeah thats correct. perhaps this knock by Dada as well. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64632.html 153* out of 261!! WOW. Nearly 60% of team runs. Wonder why this innings is never talked about much.

One of his best knocks, that. This was another one: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65595.html 141(144) against Akram/Shoaib/Mushtaq - the only batsman to cross 50 too.

[ZodiaC]

once read gambhir's interview where he said opening is the easiest job as it has comparatively least pressure. now' date=' although he was being humble, I'd still say finishing has more pressures than opening in most occasions, quite obviously i would have thought[/quote'] That depends, sometimes it can be pressurising, but otherwise it can be cakewalk. Mostly it is the latter, IMO. Every match doesn't go down to the wire. Opening is more difficult as the opener will have to always face the new moving ball.

[Sid]

That depends, sometimes it can be pressurising, but otherwise it can be cakewalk. Mostly it is the latter, IMO. Every match doesn't go down to the wire. Opening is more difficult as the opener will have to always face the new moving ball.

In ODI cricket opening is the easiest in IMO,you get the maximum balls to play and generally all round the world wickets are flat in ODI cricket and playing in middle is more difficult than opening in ODI cricket as the ball gets softer as the innings moves on and its not that easy to hit and also most crucial part of it,field is mostly back when you play in middle order and as a opener you have a access of 15 overs of PP upfront

[ZodiaC]

In ODI cricket opening is the easiest in IMO' date='you get the maximum balls to play and generally all round the world wickets are flat in ODI cricket and playing in middle is more difficult than opening in ODI cricket as the ball gets softer as the innings moves on and its not that easy to hit and also most crucial part of it,field is mostly back when you play in middle order and as a opener you have a access of 15 overs of PP upfront[/quote'] What has seam movement got to do with pitches? And don't generalize every pitch as a pancake. :headshake: Harder ball is more easy to hit, but chances of losing the wicket are much higher. On the other hand softer balls are hard to hit, but that shouldn't matter much as finishers are supposed to slog than play textbook shots. :--D Almost all high averaging players in ODIs are finishers/middle order players. And about the PP, I can also say that pressure is much less in the middle overs as the field is spread out. Works both ways :P Also there's a batting powerplay on offer too.

[Sid]

What has seam movement got to do with pitches? And don't generalize every pitch as a pancake. :headshake: Harder ball is more easy to hit, but chances of losing the wicket are much higher. On the other hand softer balls are hard to hit, but that shouldn't matter much as finishers are supposed to slog than play textbook shots. :--D Almost all high averaging players in ODIs are finishers/middle order players. And about the PP, I can also say that pressure is much less in the middle overs as the field is spread out. Works both ways :P Also there's a batting powerplay on offer too.

and these batsmen are the real match winners becoz they help in crossing the line and winning,match can be set up by any player but its the man who finishes the job that matters

[littlemaster1982]

and these batsmen are the real match winners becoz they help in crossing the line and winning' date='[b']match can be set up by any player but its the man who finishes the job that matters

That's BS. No.5-6 batsmen can finish the matches only if someone from top order does half the work. There can't be a better example than this: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/236809.html If Sachin hadn't succesfully negotiated the swing bowling under lights without letting RRR soar high, Dhoni wouldn't even come into the picture. Dhoni to his credit, played a blistering innings, but he couldn't have played such an innings if not for Sachin's knock. Don't undermine the work done by top order.

[vaibhav_delhi]

In ODI cricket opening is the easiest in IMO' date='you get the maximum balls to play and generally all round the world wickets are flat in ODI cricket[/b'] and playing in middle is more difficult than opening in ODI cricket as the ball gets softer as the innings moves on and its not that easy to hit and also most crucial part of it,field is mostly back when you play in middle order and as a opener you have a access of 15 overs of PP upfront

++

[ZodiaC]

and these batsmen are the real match winners becoz they help in crossing the line and winning' date='match can be set up by any player but its the man who finishes the job that matters[/quote'] LOL by that logic Micheal Hussey/Bevan must be the real matchwinners not Sach/Ganguly/Viru etc? :--D I disagree, both matters - mostly it's the top order who does (or atleast supposed to) the hard work and finishers might not even come in to play. It's only when it doesn't work the finishers playing a good knock comes into play.

[vaibhav_delhi]

What has seam movement got to do with pitches?

this is a joke?

[vaibhav_delhi]

LOL by that logic Micheal Hussey/Bevan must be the real matchwinners not Sach/Ganguly/Viru etc? :--D I disagree, both matters - mostly it's the top order who does (or atleast supposed to) the hard work and finishers might not even come in to play. It's only when it doesn't work the finishers playing a good knock comes into play.

both matter, but finishing is a lot more pressure job. In opening , you can take your time, pace ur innings, have power play overs as well.

[Sid]

That's BS. No.5-6 batsmen can finish the matches only if someone from top order does half the work. There can't be a better example than this: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/236809.html If Sachin hadn't succesfully negotiated the swing bowling under lights without letting RRR soar high, Dhoni wouldn't even come into the picture. Dhoni to his credit, played a blistering innings, but he couldn't have played such an innings if not for Sachin's knock. Don't undermine the work done by top order.

I am not particluarly talking about Dhoni here,I am talking generally about all middle order batsmen here and the match you are talking about I remember the ball was seaming miles from gul and asif But thats exactly I am talking about it was the no.5 and no.6 that did the job for India and won them the game and helped them win the match, Now I can also take out a example http://www.espncricinfo.com/cbs/engine/match/291366.html In this match Yuvi set up the match but got out at a wrong time and it was Dhoni who finished it off and scored the last runs,which is what matters

[littlemaster1982]

Dhon_Zone, What could have Dhoni done if not for Yuvraj or Sachin's innings? That's what I am talking about. You can't finish something which is not started well. As simple as that.

[ZodiaC]

this is a joke?

Huh? Good tracks help the ball stay in shape for longer, hence the seam movement will last longer. Seam movement is when the ball hits the seam and deviates off its path - what has it got to do with the pitch? Initial movement will always be there - and openers will have to face it. Got it dude?

both matter' date=' but finishing is a lot more pressure job. In opening , you can take your time, pace ur innings, have power play overs as well.[/quote'] So you do agree that Bevan is a better under pressure player than Sachin right? He bechara didn't even have the batting powerplays, what a legend :giggle: And hussey is the best one day batsman ever, end of discussion :--D Finishing is lot more pressure job? Only if top order fails. And in fact finishers get the least blame if a match is lost as top order is expected to do all the dirty work.

[Sid]

Dhon_Zone, What could have Dhoni done if not for Yuvraj or Sachin's innings? That's what I am talking about. You can't finish something which is not started well. As simple as that.

And my friend would India have the won match,if those innings by Dhoni and Yuvraj in the first match and Dhoni in the second match would not have been played ,to get their team through to the victory Ya its true you cant finish something that is not started but at the same time you also cant win win the match if the thing is not finished,so the one who finishes it,is the one who is remebered

[littlemaster1982]

And my friend would India have the won match' date='if those innings by Dhoni and Yuvraj in the first match and Dhoni in the second match would not have been played ,to get their team through to the victory[/quote'] I'm not saying otherwise. But you are discrediting the job of openers saying it's easy.

Ya its true you cant finish something that is not started but at the same time you also cant win win the match if the thing is not finished,so the one who finishes it,is the one who is remebered

Not exactly true. There have been lot of matches where finishing is just a formality. I'm saying for the nth time, a good innings at the top order is equally worth, if not more, to a lower order guy's innings.

[Andy]

Ganguly and SRT are Miles and Light years ahead of Dhoni as a match Winner in terms of Single Handedly winning is concerned respectively in all conditions.