The Batsman Formely Known as Mahendra Dhoni

[ZodiaC]

Hrishikesh Kanitkar deserves more credit than Ganguly & Robin singh for that famous win against Pakistan. Harbhajan>Gambhir & Dhoni in the Asia cup match as he finished the match off too.

[Sid]

I'm not saying otherwise. But you are discrediting the job of openers saying it's easy. Not exactly true. There have been lot of matches where finishing is just a formality. I'm saying for the nth time, a good innings at the top order is equally worth, if not more, to a lower order guy's innings.

I am not discrediting the job of the openers,I am just stating the fact that it is more easier at the top of the order in comparison to batting at middle order and its for that reason some players nowadays want to play as openers like Dilshan,Jayawardene,Amla etc in shorter formats And I will also say that an innings at the top of the order is very crucial as it sets the platform but what will the use of that platform if the team doesnt win(talking about tight contests,not the ones in which finishing the match is a formality)

[littlemaster1982]

Openers always don't have it easy. Consider chasing 290 after you are reduced to 12-2. The pressure starts from ball one in high chases.

[ZodiaC]

I am not discrediting the job of the openers' date='I am just stating the fact that it is more easier at the top of the order in comparison to batting at middle order and [b']its for that reason some players nowadays want to play as openers like Dilshan,Jayawardene,Amla etc in shorter formats And I will also say that an innings at the top of the order is very crucial as it sets the platform but what will the use of that platform if the team doesnt win(talking about tight contests,not the ones in which finishing the match is a formality)

:facepalm: You seriously think Amla bats as an opener because he wants to & it's easy to score runs? Please read your posts before hitting the post button PJ, when did you start churning out such lahoree logic posts? Jayawardene doesn't open nowadays, Dilshan bats well as opener, and hence bats at that position. If it's easier then why don't all top order batsmen average in 50's unlike Bevan, Hussey, Dhoni etc who're all lower order batsman? New ball is the best chance for bowlers to pick wickets, whether you agree or not. That's a fact.

[Sid]

Hrishikesh Kanitkar deserves more credit than Ganguly & Robin singh for that famous win against Pakistan. Harbhajan>Gambhir & Dhoni in the Asia cup match as he finished the match off too.

lol,we are not talking about formality finishes i.e hitting one four and you are a great finisher and in the Asia cup match it was Raina and Bhajji's combined effort that helped us win the match in the end I will again say it,setting up the chases is very crucail but if you leave the match at 50 runs to get of 5 overs,then obviously it will the the pair who wins it frolm there who will be remebered as they wins us the game

[ZodiaC]

lol,we are not talking about formality finishes i.e hitting one four and you are a great finisher and in the Asia cup match it was Raina and Bhajji's combined effort that helped us win the match in the end I will again say it,setting up the chases is very crucail but if you leave the match at 50 runs to get of 5 overs,then obviously it will the the pair who wins it frolm there who will be remebered as they wins us the game

50 runs from 5 overs? Then yes, the player who did that will be remembered. But those are exceptional cases. There are a few, but majority of the chases would be nicely set up by the top order. What if the top order fell for 30/5 or something? Finishers achieve nothing without the help of the top order. Finishing is tough, but top order is expected to do the job rather than the lower order. So more pressure on them.

[Sid]

:facepalm: You seriously think Amla bats as an opener because he wants to & it's easy to score runs? Please read your posts before hitting the post button PJ, when did you start churning out such lahoree logic posts? Jayawardene doesn't open nowadays, Dilshan bats well as opener, and hence bats at that position. If it's easier then why don't all top order batsmen average in 50's unlike Bevan, Hussey, Dhoni etc who're all lower order batsman? New ball is the best chance for bowlers to pick wickets, whether you agree or not. That's a fact.

Well ya new ball is the best chance for bowlers to pick wickets,but at the same time its the best chance for batsmen to hit some boundaries as well :two_thumbs_up:

[Andy]

I am not discrediting the job of the openers' date='I am just stating the fact that [b']it is more easier at the top of the order in comparison to batting at middle order and its for that reason some players nowadays want to play as openers like Dilshan,Jayawardene,Amla etc in shorter formats And I will also say that an innings at the top of the order is very crucial as it sets the platform but what will the use of that platform if the team doesnt win(talking about tight contests,not the ones in which finishing the match is a formality)

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Its easier to open hence they open? I dont think so, Dilshan opens because he is doing well as an opener i.e. scoring runs at a quick pace. I dont think Mahela opens for Lanka other than 20-20. Talking about Amla he is a kind of a player who will do beter as an opener than as a Middle order player because he doesnt have too many shots to clear the boundary .

[Andy]

Talking about Dhonis finishing has everyone forgot how he played for his fifty in the recent Final we played against Lanka and did not go for a win?

[Sid]

50 runs from 5 overs? Then yes' date=' the player who did that will be remembered. But those are exceptional cases. There are a few, but majority of the chases would be nicely set up by the top order. What if the top order fell for [b']30/5 or something? Finishers achieve nothing without the help of the top order. Finishing is tough, but top order is expected to do the job rather than the lower order. So more pressure on them.

wow what a situation to give:hysterical:,you should know when a team loses half its side,it obviously means,team has lost most of his batsmen and are depending on miracles to win ,role of a finisher doesnt comes into the context Though I can remember a game similar to the situation you gave http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65269.html :--D

[ZodiaC]

Well ya new ball is the best chance for bowlers to pick wickets' date='but at the same time its the best chance for batsmen to hit some boundaries as well :two_thumbs_up:[/quote'] Boundaries will come, 45(60) sounds way better than 10(3) doesn't it? It's always tough to negotiate the new ball, accept it or not. And finishers have the batting powerplay too in the end, that too with the older ball.

[ZodiaC]

wow what a situation to give:hysterical:,you should know when a team loses half its side,it obviously means,team has lost most of his batsmen and are depending on miracles to win ,role of a finisher doesnt comes into the context Though I can remember a game similar to the situation you gave http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65269.html :--D

That's precisely my point, the finishers role is to finish off things, which they can't do without the help of top order. Them being under pressure or not depends on the top order itself.

[Sid]

Talking about Dhonis finishing has everyone forgot how he played for his fifty in the recent Final we played against Lanka and did not go for a win?

and did you saw wickets falling at the other end,when he was supposedly playing for his 50

[Andy]

and did you saw wickets falling at the other end' date='when he was supposedly playing for his 50[/quote'] We were out of the match completely by then, Required Rate was 8 then. If we had to win that match Dhoni had to play 183 like innings. But he still hung in there doing his usual 'tuk tuks' you have any reason why he did that?

[Sid]

We were out of the match completely by then' date=' Required Rate was 8 then. If we had to win that match Dhoni had to play 183 like innings. But he still hung in there doing his usual 'tuk tuks' you have any reason why he did that?[/quote'] I still remember when yuvi fell,kohli was well set and dhoni came in ,RRR was under control but Kohli played a rash stroke and got out,then dhoni and raina had a partnership,in which eventually raina also fell and that ws the end of the story and when it comes to 'tuk tuks' after we were out of the game ,I can only say he wanted to reduce the losing margin :--D

[Andy]

I still remember when yuvi fell' date='kohli was well set and dhoni came in ,RRR was under control but Kohli played a rash stroke and got out,then dhoni and raina had a partnership,in which eventually raina also fell and that ws the end of the story and when it comes to 'tuk tuks' after we were out of the game ,[b']I can only say he wanted to reduce the losing margin :--D

We could have won, atleast get close to a win there had he played 183 type innings. I think he has lost it this days.

[Sid]

We could have won' date=' atleast get close to a win there had he played 183 type innings. [b']I think he has lost it this days.

Ya cant hit consistently anymore :((,he has got preoccupied with playing a no risk game and playing the situation.Hence sometimes when he even tries to hit nowadays cant connect like the Dhoni of 2006.

[Andy]

Ya cant hit consistently anymore :((' date='he has got preoccupied with playing a no risk game and playing the situation.Hence sometimes when he even tries to hit nowadays [b']cant connect like the Dhoni of 2006.

:((

[vaibhav_delhi]

Well generally it is believed that opening in the ODIs and Batting 2 down in the tests is the best position to score maximum number of runs. tht is why india sends its best batsman there. It doesnt necessarily mean that the best batsman is also best under a pressure situation,. In test matches, laxman is our best batter in pressure cooker situation, imo in odis, dhoni is the best under pressure, imo

[gaurav92]

once read gambhir's interview where he said opening is the easiest job as it has comparatively least pressure. now' date=' although he was being humble, I'd still say finishing has more pressures than opening in most occasions, quite obviously i would have thought[/quote'] :LOL! He said so because he batted alongside Sehwag, as he does the bulk of the scoring, so its pretty easy to bat alongside him.He meant that.But he was clearly being humble in appreciation to that great man.Opening is not as easy as its said.

In ODI cricket opening is the easiest in IMO' date='you get the maximum balls to play and generally all round the world wickets are flat in ODI cricket and playing in middle is more difficult than opening in ODI cricket as the ball gets softer as the innings moves on and its not that easy to hit and also most crucial part of it,field is mostly back when you play in middle order and as a opener you have a access of 15 overs of PP upfront[/quote'] Was this a joke ? You say opening the batting is the easiest.I clearly disagree to that : 1) You are new to the crease, you have to face the initial swing, seam movement that is on offer.Plus you have the field restrictions, so there is not an easy single available, you need to split the gap to get boundaries, whereas in case of finishing, you have easy singles available that keeps your circulation in the legs going and the scorecard ticking.Not every opener gets the luxury of batting alongside Veeru who does the scoring.So when he gets out on a flat track(as you say), don't you think that there will be pressure on the other batsman to score ? And you say the field is back and one cannot hit over the Top.dude who wants to hit over the top in the middle overs ? In the slog overs, its mandatory to search for boundaries and the batsman out there has to search for it, isn't it ? Even if there is a Sachin, Sehwag or Dhoni, everyone has to go hell for leather and search for boundaries.Whereas in the first fifteen overs, if you try and do so, you may end up giving your wicket away, which will cost the team badly early on.

And my friend would India have the won match,if those innings by Dhoni and Yuvraj in the first match and Dhoni in the second match would not have been played ,to get their team through to the victory Ya its true you cant finish something that is not started but at the same time you also cant win win the match if the thing is not finished,so the one who finishes it,is the one who is remebered

No. Actually the on who lays the platform is remembered.If you say that the one ho finishes is the key, yes you are right, but saying that he is the better player under pressure, than the one who set the platform for the finisher to play his part, is not agreeable. Take for instance the last ODI India played against Aus, chasing 290.Kohli set the platform for Raina, and we won the game, but we can't say Raina is a better player than Kohli under pressure.Sure Raina has much more experience than Virat who is relatively new, but having said that.India were two down when Virat rescued India and brought them to a place of safety by stringing a handy partnership with Yuvi. rain just had to play his natural game and finish.taking nothing away from Raina, Virat was the player who turned the game around in that game.So the start is always crucial. You will very rarely see a finisher doing well in chasing a big total when the start was not decent.He is more or less likely to collapse like the rest under pressure. And finally FFS take out that Lahori Logic of hard/soft ball and the power plays that makes it easy for the batsman to open.