Tests and ODIs mixed in between the series! Confusing!

[fineleg]

I was looking at the scorecards for the "Revenge Series" - the one where West Indies came to India after their WC1983 loss Looks like it was some revenge - they beat India 5-0 in ODIs, and 4-0? in Tests! The funny thing - the ODIs and the Tests are mixed in. Given the same teams predominantly played for ODIs and Tests, that must be chaotic to switch format after every one or two matches!!! I think this mixing of ODIs and Tests was there for quite a while. Do you know when matches involving Indian teams stopped mixing ODIs and Tests within the itinerary?

[Sid]

I think this was the case throughout the 80's,it changed in the 90's ,cant really comment much becoz I started watching cricket in the 90's

[Ranjha]

wow that must've sucked but then again there was not that much of a difference between strike rates in odis and tests those days... I also started watching in 90s and dont remember such a thing.

[Mamu]

I was looking at the scorecards for the "Revenge Series" - the one where West Indies came to India after their WC1983 loss Looks like it was some revenge - they beat India 5-0 in ODIs, and 4-0? in Tests! The funny thing - the ODIs and the Tests are mixed in. Given the same teams predominantly played for ODIs and Tests, that must be chaotic to switch format after every one or two matches!!! I think this mixing of ODIs and Tests was there for quite a while. Do you know when matches involving Indian teams stopped mixing ODIs and Tests within the itinerary?

2 - 0 in tests not 4 - 0, but take a look at the Indian Team Binny, Sandhu, Madan Lal, Kirti Azad, Sandeep Patil, Ashok Malhotra. If players like them existed now, they would not make it to the Indian D Team.

[Lurker]

Binny, Sandhu, Madan Lal, Kirti Azad, Sandeep Patil, Ashok Malhotra. If players like them existed now, they would not make it to the Indian D Team.

You kidding me? These players were the reason why India was good in LOI in 80s. We had many good all-rounders suited for shorter format of the game. Someone like Sandhu had scored 80 odds against Pakistan in their backyard and he was the last batsman up in Indian batting line-up. Binny and Madan Lal were good enough bowlers and decent bats. When Kapil scored that epic 175* it was Binny and Madan Lal who were holding fort, and Syed Kirmani of course. That combined with their brilliant fielding was always a huge bonus for India. Patil was very flamboyant and but for his exuberance his numbers would have been much better than what he ended with. Probably the finest striker of ball of his time alongside Kapil Dev. Every country makes some contribution to world cricket. Pakistan with reverse swing and doosra, Windies with non stop pace battery, Aussies with well most dominant team etc...I would think thats India's contribution to world cricket. Before anyone else realized it was Kapil who was packing his team with all-rounders in LOI. The trend continues 20 years later. xxx

[youngindia]

Exactly those players have no place today. because the talent pool in india has spread deeper and farther.the quality is much better even compared to 1999 our world class players even then were some batsmen,gavaskar and amarnath. sandeep patel had potential but faded away. but the depth was not there. in bowling, there was only kapil and opposition usually had a field day after his spell. imran dismisses those indian team of the 80's as "not much of a team" and he proved it on the cricket field as well by masterminding a 15 year domination. One day cricket was still in its first decade then and the batsmen of that time didn't have the array of strokemaking to inflict damage as in this decade but the west indians always had destructive batsmen with dazzling strokes and they slaughered our attack. Look at the jamshedpur one day international. 332 in 45 overs.unprecedented during those days. Fortunately other teams did not have richards ,greenidge and we were able to escape on occasions. That enabled occasional over achievement in places like england and australia where swing bowling of binny was more effective. That side has inflated reputation largely because it won two major multinational turnaments. but that side was always weak underneath.Even in those days, zaheer abbas ,mohsin khan and miandad toyed with our bowling in pakistan.we struggled to win a series even at home in those days against all nations barring SL and NZ. There was not enough destructiveness in the batting lineup. players like gavaskar and mohinder were brought up as test batsmen. The bowling was even more mediocre compared to today. This was proved when pakistan started hammering india from the mid 1980's onwards with more agresssive batsmen and an array of fast bowlers inlcuding the arrival of wasim akram. The WC and wcc wins may be memorable and may have done a ot to popularise the LOI game in india. but it was also a curse becuase an essentially weak team with lots of weaknesses remained for the rest of the century as we continued to be mid tier and suffer a 20 match gap in the h to h with pakistan ,precisely because that side gave us false lessons,expectations and hopes . today's batsmen have too much ammunition for them.

[The Outsider]

That side has inflated reputation largely because it won two major multinational turnaments.

Yeah, such a stupid criteria to build a reputation on!

[Guest BossBhai]

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[youngindia]

Yeah' date=' such a stupid criteria to build a reputation on! [/quote'] i am only bringing the less known facts into attention(barring fans of that time) to sound a word of caution-despite those well earned achivements, the side was not actually as good as the 2 results suggested.

[youngindia]

I was looking at the scorecards for the "Revenge Series" - the one where West Indies came to India after their WC1983 loss Looks like it was some revenge - they beat India 5-0 in ODIs, and 4-0? in Tests!

3-0.Kanpur,ahmedabad and calcutta. Marshall doing most of the damage. holding and roberts were there along with wayne daniel and winston davis. Garner didn't come for the tour. windies also had some tough moments in the low scoringmatches at ahmedabad and calcutta but clive lloyd ,an india specialist would come up with a partnership and annoy everyone again. i remember atleast two of them with logie at ahmedabad and roberts at calcutta. then windies bowlers would come back with a vengeance and knock everyone down especially if gavaskar failed. gavaskar batted very well in the series but could not get enough support barring vengsarkar in some innings. another abiding memory from that series was catches being dropped left,rgiht and centre by india fielders. The windies batsmen were very attacking and flamboyant giving respect only to kapil dev. the crowd used to cheer for their strokeplay as well. my favourite wi batsman was larry gomes becuae he was the only one getting out without doing too much damage often! i thought someone called richie richardson was a poor batsman because he scored two zeroes in the bombay test. when he got his chance in the last ODI, i thought this is a batsman who will get out soon. guess what? he smashed our bowling to all parts. there was crowd interruptions at times becuase the crowd threw this and that . i went to the match at chepauk.that match was not as agonising. i will not forget the roar when the first wicket fell- greenidge . richards struck a full toss from shastri for six in my direction but got out in the thirties. the top order dismissed for less than 300 but the tail enders holding and marshall proved annoying. Holding killed shival yadav and the other spinners.i think he struck four or five sixes in an hour of madness .KAPIL came back and removed both of them lifting the spirits of a demoralised crowd. then marshall qucikly removed vengsarkar and gaikwad. we were 0/2.crowd expects another disaster. richards tells gavaskar who comes at 4 in this innings -"man wherever you come the score is zero" gavaskar pulls a short ball from roberts for four adn the crowd gives a huge roar. that probably inspired him. gavaskar fashions the escape with shastri and kirimani and goes onto score 236, the highest score by indian beforfe the VvS 281! he gets the hundred of davis and double hundred of andy roberts and a four off gomes bring him past vinod mankad's record. i have never forgot all these.

[dial_100]

2 - 0 in tests not 4 - 0, but take a look at the Indian Team Binny, Sandhu, Madan Lal, Kirti Azad, Sandeep Patil, Ashok Malhotra. If players like them existed now, they would not make it to the Indian D Team.

Patil and Kirti Azad were very good strikers of the ball. I remember an ODI against Aussies. We were like 150 something with Kapil Deo out with 3-4 overs left. And when I reached home our final total was above 200. It was Kirti Azad who hit like 4 4s and 4 6s in that game. Generally good SR of this guy. Patil was well known master of 4 hitter. Lurks....correct me if I am wrong, he is the only guy from those days to have scored 50s in 30 balls twice. A rare entertainment in those slow games, of course apart from Kapil Deo Nikhanj.

[youngindia]

kirti azad played a starring role in one of the day night matches against pakistan. but afterwards, often he didn't stay there long enough! patil has more distinctions. he scored 173 vs australia after getting hit on the head by fiery fast bowler len pascoe. there was also lillee and hogg in the attack in that series. he smashed willis for six fours in an over in england.

[Mamu]

You kidding me? These players were the reason why India was good in LOI in 80s. We had many good all-rounders suited for shorter format of the game. Someone like Sandhu had scored 80 odds against Pakistan in their backyard and he was the last batsman up in Indian batting line-up. Binny and Madan Lal were good enough bowlers and decent bats. When Kapil scored that epic 175* it was Binny and Madan Lal who were holding fort, and Syed Kirmani of course. That combined with their brilliant fielding was always a huge bonus for India. Patil was very flamboyant and but for his exuberance his numbers would have been much better than what he ended with. Probably the finest striker of ball of his time alongside Kapil Dev. Every country makes some contribution to world cricket. Pakistan with reverse swing and doosra, Windies with non stop pace battery, Aussies with well most dominant team etc...I would think thats India's contribution to world cricket. Before anyone else realized it was Kapil who was packing his team with all-rounders in LOI. The trend continues 20 years later. xxx

You are mentioning one off incident where these guys shone. Does not mean anything. And No India was NOT Good in the 80s. Bloody hell every team that toured us beat us in a bilateral series. I cannot recall a single series we won in the 80s, including the damn OZs with a 2nd rated team. Binny, Madan Lal and Sandhu couldnt move the ball an inch if the pitch was not wet or there was no cloud cover. If anybody here thinks Kirti Azad was a good batsman, my recommendation is get yourselves admitted to the mental hospital in Ranchi. Putting things in perspective -- Yusuf Pathan is 10 times better than him. Regarding Patil -- what good is flamboyance, style, grace etc etc. I need consistency. Heck he used to be a miserable f**k against any ball that swung. His only claim to fame was his Adelaide innings. There are many guys who are stylish and graceful like Kambli, Zaheer Abbas and of the current lot Umar Akmal. What good were/are they ? Absolutely useless.

[Lurker]

You are mentioning one off incident where these guys shone. Does not mean anything. And No India was NOT Good in the 80s. Bloody hell every team that toured us beat us in a bilateral series. I cannot recall a single series we won in the 80s, including the damn OZs with a 2nd rated team.

So lets get this straight, from hand picking certain all-rounders who indeed proved to be worth their while now your tune has changed to Indian team not being good in the 80s. Moving goalpost already, isnt it? As for your whole rant about "India not being good in 80s" please feel free to read up my initial reply. The key verbage there is LOI and yes India was a force to be recknoned with in 80s in LOI. Unless you were sleeping through 80s of course. India won 1983 WC, 1985 World series, quite a few other LOI tournaments and were odd-on favorites for 1987 WC as well. And a lot of this had to do with the utility cricketers aka Madan Lal, Roger Binny etc. xxx

[Lurker]

Patil and Kirti Azad were very good strikers of the ball. I remember an ODI against Aussies. We were like 150 something with Kapil Deo out with 3-4 overs left. And when I reached home our final total was above 200. It was Kirti Azad who hit like 4 4s and 4 6s in that game. Generally good SR of this guy. Patil was well known master of 4 hitter. Lurks....correct me if I am wrong, he is the only guy from those days to have scored 50s in 30 balls twice. A rare entertainment in those slow games, of course apart from Kapil Deo Nikhanj.

Could very well be. The problem with Indian fans, and I am not generalizing it lightly, is that they refuse to be educated about their own cricketing past and turn towards moronic statistics thus rendering many a past greats as quite ordinary cricketer. Patil, for example, would probably be the most flamboyant of all Mumbai batsmen that have possibly played(and there have been awesome Mumbai batsmen). I havent heard of bigger sixes hit by a batsman in Bombay. There are many a replete stories of him, unfortunately buried in chronicles of those who read Mumbai coveraged back then. Of course its not all nostalgia, the man played one of the bravest innings overseas after hit by a Pascoe bouncer and once slammed Bob Willis for 6 fours in 1 over (with a no-ball in between). xxx

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Lurker]

You feel that way because you are highly nostalgia bound ... the older the player the more excited you get. Take for example the case of Sandeep Patil and I used to be a big fan of this guy when I was of an impressionable age. The man has a test match batting avg of 37 and ODI avg of 24 despite being a lower middle order batsman. These are forgettable stats especially when you compare to modern day batsmen. Blame that on the very high standards set by SRT' date=' VS, RD, VVS etc. You mention about Sandy hitting 6 fours in a over. These things mean little in the broader context unless there is a certain amount of consistency. People like Sehwag , SRT ,UV , MSD hit far more boundaries per innings than Sandy and most importantly they keep doing it over 100s of ODIs not a few odis here and there. SG exposes all this in a hurry and I can understand why it causes serious heart burn for someone like you who prefers to live with fond memories from his impressionable age when sportstar used to run articles adoring Patil for his exploits. Times change and it is not a crime to re-asses things and put things in perspective.[/quote'] I think the comment about moronic stats hit a nerve there. Nobody is suggesting Sandeep Patil is better than VVS, or VS. The contention here is someone like Sandeep patil wouldnt make it to India D side. I find that retarded. Unless of course you beleive that Sandy wouldnt make it to India D today as well. In which case moronic statistics and retarded comment etc etc :-) Cheers. xxx

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Lurker]

Instead of hurling peurile innuendos like a silly school girl why not stand up and debate like a grown up ? Feel free to start with what is moronic about that stat.

I would, if there was a grown-up. You aint so thats that.. And yes that statement stands - is that they refuse to be educated about their own cricketing past and turn towards moronic statistics thus rendering many a past greats as quite ordinary cricketer. Just so we are clear this lot does include you. Take it for whatever its worth of course. xxx

[Guest BossBhai]

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