Did Guru Greg just get lucky in the mid 80s?

[The Outsider]

The resurgence of Australia in the mid 80s has been counted as one of the biggest achievements of Chappell, but did he just fluke it? I mean, his other stints in a coach/selector kind of position at South Australia and India were absolute disasters. He then followed it up by a 2-0 loss in India while he was batting consultant for Australia in 2008. And now this. It might turn out to be the worst home series for Australia in a long long time, the way things seem to be panning out. Doherty as a test bowler? Seriously, what kind of a selector would pick crap like that? So, were the mid 80s just a fluke for Guru Greg in an otherwise disastrous career as a coach/selector?

[Sid]

I thought Aus resurgence started under Border and Bob Simpson as coach

[EnterTheVoid]

The resurgence of Australia in the mid 80s has been counted as one of the biggest achievements of Chappell, but did he just fluke it? I mean, his other stints in a coach/selector kind of position at South Australia and India were absolute disasters. He then followed it up by a 2-0 loss in India while he was batting consultant for Australia in 2008. And now this. It might turn out to be the worst home series for Australia in a long long time, the way things seem to be panning out. Doherty as a test bowler? Seriously, what kind of a selector would pick crap like that? So, were the mid 80s just a fluke for Guru Greg in an otherwise disastrous career as a coach/selector?

The reasoning was to use a bowler England had very little exposure facing.

[The Outsider]

^He was one of the selectors.

[Sid]

^He was one of the selectors.

So he was selector at that time,then one can only say Aus had better talent that time

[The Outsider]

The reasoning was to use a bowler England had very little exposure facing.

LOL! Dude, I am sure England have had very little exposure facing your bowling as well. To be frank, I had never seen Doherty bowl before this series. Even in the first match, I could not catch much live action, so the first time I really saw him bowl over an extended period live was last night. I just could not believe that such a crap bowler can play test cricket. I am not kidding - I have seen better spinners than him in India university level matches. Even McGain was better than this guy.

[Sachinism]

The reasoning was to use a bowler England had very little exposure facing.

LOL Did Aus think they could pick up wickets by shocking the batsmen?

[EnterTheVoid]

LOL! Dude' date=' I am sure England have had very little exposure facing your bowling as well.[/quote'] That was the reason HE gave when asked by a television host why Doherty was picked over Hauritz. I can understand Greg's reasoning to a certain extent -- I mean, Hauritz was bowling crap and at the time, it seemed like a worthwhile gamble to give Doherty a chance. Whether Doherty cements his position and becomes a front line spinner, thats yet to be seen.

To be frank, I had never seen Doherty bowl before this series. Even in the first match, I could not catch much live action, so the first time I really saw him bowl over an extended period live was last night. I just could not believe that such a crap bowler can play test cricket. I am not kidding - I have seen better spinners than him in India university level matches. Even McGain was better than this guy.

Perhaps but he has only played 1.5 tests, and that too, on placid wickets. Adelaide, days 1 - 3, this is really nothing in it for the spinners, its just a batting paradise. Leave it to the incompetency of the batsman they folded so meekly on a wicket where 500 is a part 1st innings score.

[EnterTheVoid]

LOL Did Aus think they could pick up wickets by shocking the batsmen?

Answered this question. See reply to Shwetabh's post.

[The Outsider]

That was the reason HE gave when asked by a television host why Doherty was picked over Hauritz. I can understand Greg's reasoning to a certain extent -- I mean, Hauritz was bowling crap and at the time, it seemed like a worthwhile gamble to give Doherty a chance. Whether Doherty cements his position and becomes a front line spinner, thats yet to be seen. Perhaps but he has only played 1.5 tests, and that too, on placid wickets. Adelaide, days 1 - 3, this is really nothing in it for the spinners, its just a batting paradise. Leave it to the incompetency of the batsman they folded so meekly on a wicket where 500 is a part 1st innings score.

Yeah, I got the part about the reasoning of the selectors. What I am questioning is the notion that did the selectors not see this dunce bowl live? FFS, North is a much better spinner than this guy. Couldn't the selectors see this with their eyes? It is fine to go in with the shock value of a player if there are two players with comparable skills. In this case Doherty is not even as good as a part time spinner. What kind of shock is that supposed to give international level players except perhaps catch them holding their stomachs laughing their a$s off at the mediocrity being presented to them?

[King Tendulkar]

The resurgence of Australia in the mid 80s has been counted as one of the biggest achievements of Chappell, but did he just fluke it? I mean, his other stints in a coach/selector kind of position at South Australia and India were absolute disasters. He then followed it up by a 2-0 loss in India while he was batting consultant for Australia in 2008. And now this. It might turn out to be the worst home series for Australia in a long long time, the way things seem to be panning out. Doherty as a test bowler? Seriously, what kind of a selector would pick crap like that? So, were the mid 80s just a fluke for Guru Greg in an otherwise disastrous career as a coach/selector?

Doherty was pontings hunch pick pick based on one game were apparently ponting thought he bowled well and apparently according to ponting hauritz did not. By the way did not even realise chappell was responsible for oz resurgence. Lead to believe it was Border. But yeah it must have been fluke if had been given credit. As his stint with India shows his haplessness

[King Tendulkar]

LOL Did Aus think they could pick up wickets by shocking the batsmen?

Well ponting looks like Bush and it seems he also went for same tactic of shock and awe!

[EnterTheVoid]

Yeah, I got the part about the reasoning of the selectors. What I am questioning is the notion that did the selectors not see this dunce bowl live? FFS, North is a much better spinner than this guy. Couldn't the selectors see this with their eyes? It is fine to go in with the shock value of a player if there are two players with comparable skills. In this case Doherty is not even as good as a part time spinner. What kind of shock is that supposed to give international level players except perhaps catch them holding their stomachs laughing their a off at the mediocrity being presented to them?

I feel you're being a tad too harsh. I can understand if you said this if he performed poorly on a spinning wicket where he was expected to do well, but so far, he had to bowl on pitches that are not suited to spin bowling. The final days of Brisbane and the first few days of Adelaide, the pitches are absolute roads. I don't think much of Doherty but than again, I will reserve judgement after a few more tests, if he lasts that long. Btw, its unfair to proportion all the blame on Greg when there are three selectors. 'Andrew Hildithch' is the chairman of selectors and ultimately, he has the final say (well, him and Ricky). Its only fair Andrew (and Ricky) cops some flak as well.

[The Outsider]

^ There was decent turn on the track yesterday. North got a few to really rip, and at least he did not get hammered for 5 RPO! I am laying it on Greg because he is the one change that was made in the selection committee and might have had a big say in this boneheaded selection, because earlier committees were pretty clear on Hauritz being the first choice spinner.

[DomainK]

I would tend to agree Outy. I think he was more lucky than anything else.

[EnterTheVoid]

I am laying it on Greg because he is the one change that was made in the selection committee and might have had a big say in this boneheaded selection' date=' because earlier committees were pretty clear on Hauritz being the first choice spinner.[/quote'] But Hilditch and Ricky get the final say on team selection. I mean, they could have easily rejected Greg's selection and stuck with Nathan right ? :hmmm:

[The Outsider]

But Hilditch and Ricky get the final say on team selection. I mean' date=' they could have easily rejected Greg's selection and stuck with Nathan right ? :hmmm:[/quote'] Why would Ponting have a veto on selections? He is the captain and can only give inputs on the selections and does not even have a vote, forget about a veto. I am absolving Hilditch because for more than a year, he was pretty clear about Hauritz being the first choice spinner and then all of a sudden one day you see someone like Doherty wheeling away as a test player for Australia.

[EnterTheVoid]

Why would Ponting have a veto on selections? He is the captain and can only give inputs on the selections and does not even have a vote' date=' forget about a veto.[/quote'] I am not sure I follow. Are you saying that if the selectors pick a player that Ponting doesn't want, than, Ponting is forced to play him in the starting XI anyway ? That doesn't sound right.

I am absolving Hilditch because for more than a year, he was pretty clear about Hauritz being the first choice spinner and then all of a sudden one day you see someone like Doherty wheeling away as a test player for Australia.

So why the back flip now ? If Nathan was being molded to become Australia's front line spinner and lead the spin attack, why was he not even in the starting XI. Is Hilditch so weak willed that he'd let all this preparation and planning go to waste because of the pig pigheadedness of one selector ?

[Sachinism]

Answered this question. See reply to Shwetabh's post.

OK Maybe I should somehow contact Chappal and make this point to him. If you're going to try and shock someone at least pick someone that is useful. As outy pointed out even your bowling would have been something new for the Poms. Its a rubbish selection, end of. Whatever happened to Krejza?

[EnterTheVoid]

^ There was decent turn on the track yesterday. North got a few to really rip' date=' and at least he did not get hammered for 5 RPO![/quote'] Watching the game LIVE, you don't have the luxury of endless scrutiny of a bowlers performance through pitch maps, hawk eye, expert commentary and so forth. They show the replay on the screen once and thats it.