Should Raina play instead of Kohli to give a part time bowling option ?

[vvvslaxman]

4-5 overs is all i want from a part time bowler. raina can do what kohli is doing now with the bat.

Dude.. we need wicket taking bowlers. Not part timers. We already have enough. Yuvraj and Yusuf can comfortably share 10 overs. I would atleast consider your opinion if you say Raina has some special hitting abilities. Bowling? Even Raina would laugh at that. That is the last thing we need to worry about. An extra part timer.

[desi pride 1234]

Can you back your argument with facts? As the stats I posted in previous post shows that Kohli has averaged nearly 50 whereas Raina has averaged just 35 with just a slightly higher strike rate. Both played the same no. of games and Kohli also scored nearly 500 more runs. It doesn't tell me that "raina can do what kohli is doing now with the bat."

raina had to bat low down the order at times and kohli was asked to open and played no.3 and 4th batting position consitently. i am not taking anything away from kohli. but raina is a great option if yuvi and yusuf are taken to cleaners.

[Ultimate_Game]

Dude.. we need wicket taking bowlers. Not part timers. We already have enough. Yuvraj and Yusuf can comfortably share 10 overs. I would atleast consider your opinion if you say Raina has some special hitting abilities. Bowling? Even Raina would laugh at that. That is the last thing we need to worry about. An extra part timer.

Problem is ppl don't even know what they are talking about. They don't even have a clue how Kohli performed over the last year or so - the guy actually scored much more than other batsmen, at a high strike rate and an average touching 50. What more can one ask for? Ppl want to drop our best batsman over the last year just to fit in a player who "can bowl 4-5 overs"!!!

[desi pride 1234]

Dude.. we need wicket taking bowlers. Not part timers. We already have enough. Yuvraj and Yusuf can comfortably share 10 overs. I would atleast consider your opinion if you say Raina has some special hitting abilities. Bowling? Even Raina would laugh at that. That is the last thing we need to worry about. An extra part timer.

is kohli a wicket taking bowler? raina is just an option if yuvi and yusuf were taken to cleaners. yes yuvi, yusuf, raina are there just to fill in the overs. they are not wicket taking options. the only other option we have is to ask kohli to keep and dhoni to roll his arm over(jk).

[Ultimate_Game]

raina had to bat low down the order at times and kohli was asked to open and played no.3 and 4th batting position consitently. i am not taking anything away from kohli. but raina is a great option if yuvi and yusuf are taken to cleaners.

Raina was tried in at no. 3 before Kohli was brought in at that position but Raina didn't succeed. Simple fact is that Kohli grabbed his chances whereas raina didn't and both of them were given nearly the same amount of chances and in fact Raina was the front-runner. As for batting lower down, Raina was brought lower down as he didn't succeed at 3. Also, Raina's strike rate since Jan 1 2010 has been 93 whereas Kohli's has been around 87 - hardly a difference whereas Kohli averages nearly 50 as compared to 35 by Raina. Where's the comparison???

[desi pride 1234]

Problem is ppl don't even know what they are talking about. They don't even have a clue how Kohli performed over the last year or so - the guy actually scored much more than other batsmen' date=' at a high strike rate and an average touching 50. What more can one ask for? Ppl want to drop our best batsman over the last year just to fit in a player who "can bowl 4-5 overs"!!![/quote'] raina had to bat low down the order at times and kohli was asked to open and played no.3 and 4th batting position consitently. i am not taking anything away from kohli. but raina is a great option if yuvi and yusuf are taken to cleaners

[Ultimate_Game]

is kohli a wicket taking bowler? raina is just an option if yuvi and yusuf were taken to cleaners. yes yuvi' date=' yusuf, raina are there just to fill in the overs. they are not wicket taking options. the only other option we have is to ask kohli to keep and dhoni to roll his arm over(jk).[/quote'] Care to let us know who will bat at 4 if Kohli is dropped? Yuvraj or Raina? And what happens if India loses 2 early wkts, let's say is 20/2 against Aus or SA? Do you see either Yuvraj or Raina consolidating and repairing the innings? I don't the form they are in. But I can see Kohli coming in, consolidating the innings and providing a solid platform for lower order batsmen to set up a decent score. We need balance in our batting lineup with solid batsmen along with hitters. Kohli and Gambhir are the ones who provide solidity while others go for their shots. I am afraid Raina is a replacement for Yuvraj or Pathan, i.e. lower order batsmen/hitters, but not for a solid top order batsman like Kohli or Gambhir.

[Ultimate_Game]

raina had to bat low down the order at times and kohli was asked to open and played no.3 and 4th batting position consitently. i am not taking anything away from kohli. but raina is a great option if yuvi and yusuf are taken to cleaners

Kohli also played a few times at 5 or 6 but was tried at the top as Raina didn't grab his chances. Kohli made the no. 3 (and now no. 4) position his own because he performed and scored runs at the top of the order which Raina didn't do.

[desi pride 1234]

Raina was tried in at no. 3 before Kohli was brought in at that position but Raina didn't succeed. Simple fact is that Kohli grabbed his chances whereas raina didn't and both of them were given nearly the same amount of chances and in fact Raina was the front-runner. As for batting lower down, Raina was brought lower down as he didn't succeed at 3. Also, Raina's strike rate since Jan 1 2010 has been 93 whereas Kohli's has been around 87 - hardly a difference whereas Kohli averages nearly 50 as compared to 35 by Raina. Where's the comparison???

oh come on. gambir took the no.3 spot. kohli is definitely a good batsman. right now our batting is not gonna collapse just because kohli gets dropped and raina gets a chance. u keep ignoring the 4-5 over bowling option. 4-5 overs can be vital in crunch matches.

[vvvslaxman]

is kohli a wicket taking bowler? raina is just an option if yuvi and yusuf were taken to cleaners. yes yuvi' date=' yusuf, raina are there just to fill in the overs. they are not wicket taking options. the only other option we have is to ask kohli to keep and dhoni to roll his arm over(jk).[/quote'] No. Kohli is not in the side for bowling. And Rainal will also not be selected for his bowling. Both are terrific fielders. Why do you force a specialist batsman to do something he cannot do. would you say the same thing to Sehwag, Gambhir and Tendulkar. Why does Kohli have to do something other than batting and fielding. As long as he is good in his area that is good enough. I once again reiterate. India's problem is not part time bowling. Worst case even Sachin can bowl a bit. Kohli is a reliable batsman who is in good form. Nobody expected Yusuf's display in SA. That is where Raina lost his place. And also in one of the match he played a ridiculous shot against Morkel instead of seeing him off. Raina did himself no favor in SA.

[Ultimate_Game]

oh come on. gambir took the no.3 spot. kohli is definitely a good batsman. right now our batting is not gonna collapse just because kohli gets dropped and raina gets a chance. u keep ignoring the 4-5 over bowling option. 4-5 overs can be vital in crunch matches.

You didn't answer my question who will bat at 4 if Kohli is dropped and what happens if we lose couple of early wickets? We have known how Indian batting can collapse. You can't have hitters throughout your lineup and drop a guy who's averaging nearly 50 over the last year or so just that someone could "bowl 4-5 overs". And we don't even know what those 4-5 overs will get us? I say if those 4-5 overs are so important then let Kohli bowl those 4-5 overs every innings.

[desi pride 1234]

Care to let us know who will bat at 4 if Kohli is dropped? Yuvraj or Raina? And what happens if India loses 2 early wkts, let's say is 20/2 against Aus or SA? Do you see either Yuvraj or Raina consolidating and repairing the innings? I don't the form they are in. But I can see Kohli coming in, consolidating the innings and providing a solid platform for lower order batsmen to set up a decent score. We need balance in our batting lineup with solid batsmen along with hitters. Kohli and Gambhir are the ones who provide solidity while others go for their shots. I am afraid Raina is a replacement for Yuvraj or Pathan, i.e. lower order batsmen/hitters, but not for a solid top order batsman like Kohli or Gambhir.

yuvi, raina can surely do the consolidating and repairing job if we lose the early wickets. kohli still has the weakness outside off stump. he didnt do that consolidating job in the practice match against australia. raina cant be a replacement for yuvi or yusuf because they come in handy with part time overs.

[desi pride 1234]

You didn't answer my question who will bat at 4 if Kohli is dropped and what happens if we lose couple of early wickets? We have known how Indian batting can collapse. You can't have hitters throughout your lineup and drop a guy who's averaging nearly 50 over the last year or so just that someone could "bowl 4-5 overs". And we don't even know what those 4-5 overs will get us? I say if those 4-5 overs are so important then let Kohli bowl those 4-5 overs every innings.

yuvi or raina can play @ 4 if kohli is dropped. raina's bowling is as good as yusuf's or yuvi's. same cant be said for kohli's bowling. kohli's bowling sucks.

[Ultimate_Game]

yuvi' date=' raina can surely do the consolidating and repairing job if we lose the early wickets. [b']kohli still has the weakness outside off stump. he didnt do that consolidating job in the practice match against australia. raina cant be a replacement for yuvi or yusuf because they come in handy with part time overs.

If Kohli has problem outside off I shudder to think of the weaknesses in Yuvraj and Raina's batting :giggle: And you want to drop a guy who's averaging 50 ober the last year and more just because "he didnt do that consolidating job in the practice match against australia"!!! Are you serious? As for Raina and Yuvraj consolidating, what sort of consolidation job do you expect from batsmen who average 35 and 29 over the last year and more? Pls do check the stats and recent form rather than making arguments which stats simply don't back up.

[Ultimate_Game]

yuvi or raina can play @ 4 if kohli is dropped. raina's bowling is as good as yusuf's or yuvi's. same cant be said for kohli's bowling. kohli's bowling sucks.

Care to provide more details than stating " kohli's bowling sucks"? It's not as if Raina's bowling has set the world afire!

[vvvslaxman]

yuvi, raina can surely do the consolidating and repairing job if we lose the early wickets. kohli still has the weakness outside off stump. he didnt do that consolidating job in the practice match against australia. raina cant be a replacement for yuvi or yusuf because they come in handy with part time overs.

Yuvi is weak against spin. Raina is weak against short balls. Kohli is good against both. Outside the off stump weakness? Where did you go when he played Steyn's outswingers in SA? From the look of it.. you have concluded if India fixes its part time bowling they will be a force to reckon with. Unfortunately that is not even remotely a problem for India. Yuvraj is capable of 10 overs himself on a good day. With Yusuf around they can bowl around 12 or 13 overs. He is just a dibbly dobbly off spinner. It is a joke to treat him as a bowler who can bowl 4 or 5 overs every match. last 2 years Raina's bowling http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/33335.html?class=2;spanmax1=05+Mar+2011;spanmin1=05+Mar+2009;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling;view=inningswling Does he look like a bowler who can bowl 4 or 5 overs in every match?

[desi pride 1234]

No. Kohli is not in the side for bowling. And Rainal will also not be selected for his bowling. Both are terrific fielders. Why do you force a specialist batsman to do something he cannot do. would you say the same thing to Sehwag, Gambhir and Tendulkar. Why does Kohli have to do something other than batting and fielding. As long as he is good in his area that is good enough. I once again reiterate. India's problem is not part time bowling. Worst case even Sachin can bowl a bit. Kohli is a reliable batsman who is in good form. Nobody expected Yusuf's display in SA. That is where Raina lost his place. And also in one of the match he played a ridiculous shot against Morkel instead of seeing him off. Raina did himself no favor in SA.

yes. yusf got his chances because of his display in sa. raina would have played now if yusuf didnt do well in sa. raina wuda shared the bowling with yuvi. so his bowling is as good(or as bad) as yusuf's or yuvi's. y not use his bowling skill?. sehwag or sachin is not gonna bowl. kohli's bowling sucks. y not use raina as a bowling option? its not india's batting is gonna collapse just because raina plays instead of kohli.

[Ultimate_Game]

yes. yusf got his chances because of his display in sa. raina would have played now if yusuf didnt do well in sa. raina wuda shared the bowling with yuvi. so his bowling is as good(or as bad) as yusuf's or yuvi's. y not use his bowling skill?. sehwag or sachin is not gonna bowl. kohli's bowling sucks. y not use raina as a bowling option? its not india's batting is gonna collapse just because raina plays instead of kohli.

How can you be so sure? The stats for the last year or so suggest that India will have major problems as Yuvraj is averaging 29, Raina 35 and dhoni 37. These are not the sort of stats you want your no. 4 or middle order to have. Plus we have all seen how India has collapsed in case they lose couple of early wkts. You need a solid batsman like Kohli to bat through the middle innings without taking undue risks. Plus pls elaborate "Kohli's bowling sucks" by comparing his stats with Raina's

[vvvslaxman]

yes. yusf got his chances because of his display in sa. raina would have played now if yusuf didnt do well in sa. raina wuda shared the bowling with yuvi. so his bowling is as good(or as bad) as yusuf's or yuvi's. y not use his bowling skill?. sehwag or sachin is not gonna bowl. kohli's bowling sucks. y not use raina as a bowling option? its not india's batting is gonna collapse just because raina plays instead of kohli.

Tell me the Raina's bowling accomplishments. 111 matches 7 wickets. You call that a skill? If you are purely going for a 5th bowler you would rather want to have a specialist bowler like Ashwin rather than a below average bowler like Raina. If Raina is going to walk into INdian side it will be purely for his batting not for his bowling. Sure he can come in place of Kohli provided Kohli has few failures. Kohli is in red hot form. Has been our crisis man for a while.

[Ultimate_Game]

yes. yusf got his chances because of his display in sa. raina would have played now if yusuf didnt do well in sa. raina wuda shared the bowling with yuvi. so his bowling is as good(or as bad) as yusuf's or yuvi's. y not use his bowling skill?. sehwag or sachin is not gonna bowl. kohli's bowling sucks. y not use raina as a bowling option? its not india's batting is gonna collapse just because raina plays instead of kohli.

Since you haven't provided any stats for Raina or Kohli, let me do so. I suspect you didn't do so as there wasn't any major difference between the two and "Kohli's bowling sucks" was just an easy way out. Here are the stats for the two and I don't see too much of a difference between the two and if "Kohli's bowling sucks", Raina doesn't fare much better either. Player Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SK Raina 29 10 27.0 0 143 1 1/21 143.00 5.29 V Kohli 32 3 6.4 0 39 0 - - 5.85 Neither player deserves to be selected based on his bowling performances and Kohli is way ahead in terms of batting. I have proven so by stating facts and not merely by saying "Raina's batting sucks" or "Kohli is amazing".