The last group game: Ind vs WI pre-match talk

[therocky]

Yea west indies will beat India... and there will be snow in the Middle East. I can't believe some people actually think west indies will be able to beat India, stop worrying so much. I will bet a million dollars west indies will lose by a huge margin.

[Switchblade]

@ fineleg more than Gayle its Sarwan who is a threat

[theanalyst]

His recent record may be pretty poor but I believe in the adage "Form is temporary' date=' class is permanent". Before the world cup,and the Eng game, if someone had asked me which Eng batsman would I want to see get out cheaply, my answer would have been KP.[/quote'] That's just people thinking of the Oval 2005. The current KP is a shadow of that player. I'd go with what you're saying if it was 6 months or so but we're talking of a bloody long time here. Avg of 30 between the 2007 and the 2011 WC. His record over the past two years is even worse. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/19296.html?class=2;spanmax1=15+Mar+2011;spanmin1=15+Mar+2009;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting Regarding the class and form thing: I said that to myself when my hero Viv Richards went into what we now know to be a permanent decline. It doesn't work like that sadly. Players have their peak years. Some have very short peaks and never rediscover the heights they once reached. You've got to keep adapting and improving to be at the top. It's bloody tough. That is why I value longevity very highly. You don't pick a team based in the hope that someone will do something that they haven't done in a few years.

[Ultimate_Game]

Yea west indies will beat India... and there will be snow in the Middle East. I can't believe some people actually think west indies will be able to beat India' date=' stop worrying so much. I will bet a million dollars west indies will lose by a huge margin.[/quote'] Yes WI can but India are the strong favorites and should prevail.

[fineleg]

@ fineleg more than Gayle its Sarwan who is a threat

yep, read this - Post# 47 on this thread http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1369985&postcount=47

[Switchblade]

@:two_thumbs_up:

[Ultimate_Game]

That's just people thinking of the Oval 2005. The current KP is a shadow of that player. I'd go with what you're saying if it was 6 months or so but we're talking of a bloody long time here. Avg of 30 between the 2007 and the 2011 WC. His record over the past two years is even worse. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/19296.html?class=2;spanmax1=15+Mar+2011;spanmin1=15+Mar+2009;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting Regarding the class and form thing: I said that to myself when my hero Viv Richards went into what we now know to be a permanent decline. It doesn't work like that sadly. Players have their peak years. Some have very short peaks and never rediscover the heights they once reached. You've got to keep adapting and improving to be at the top. It's bloody tough. That is why I value longevity very highly. You don't pick a team based in the hope that someone will do something that they haven't done in a few years.

Don't think KP is in decline. In girl-friend parlance KP is "high maintenance" and you need good man-management skills to get the best out of him else he will not contribute much. I suspect someone like Dhoni who backs his players a lot would have gotten a lot more out of KP. KP is not like Tendulkar who will give off his best no matter what - KP needs to be handled carefully to perform at his peak.

[King]

Depends on the pitch and the form of Chanderpaul. If the pitch is flat with no assistance to the bowlers and if Chanderpaul plays like he usually does against India then WI can beat India.

[Guest prince]

Munaf actually has picked up 9 wickets at an average of 23.11 and strike rate of 23.2 so I think continuous criticism is unfair on him. I think Nehra should be dropped for Ashwin

[theanalyst]

Don't think KP is in decline. In girl-friend parlance KP is "high maintenance" and you need good man-management skills to get the best out of him else he will not contribute much. I suspect someone like Dhoni who backs his players a lot would have gotten a lot more out of KP. KP is not like Tendulkar who will give off his best no matter what - KP needs to be handled carefully to perform at his peak.

This is what KP said last year..... At the ripe old age of 30, Kevin Pietersen is on the way out. Who says so? England’s best batsman himself says so. As he arrived for two games in South Africa before the Ashes in Australia, he said: “I am 30 years old now. I have probably got to the top of the fence and am on the way down now. It is nice if you can help somebody else.†An interesting take, given that Sachin Tendulkar, seven years older, has just been named the ICC’s Test cricketer of the year. Pietersen, who will play two games for his original first class team, KwaZulu Natal Dolphins, said in Durban: “I am out here now to try and put things right, to spend some time in the middle and work a lot harder than I have worked before so that I am in the best nick possible come the Ashes tour. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A player in decline does not mean that he becomes totally useless. They will still have their moments and make the odd score. It's just that aren't consistently brilliant like they were at their best. When they go from being in decline to becoming a liability, you get rid of them.

[Zero_Unit]

Remember when Agarkar was in form? Now those were the days. Srinath and him would have done wonders for us when they were in form

[Switchblade]

@analyst im quite surprised that he thinks that way as you said that the team was quite releived when he was gone so is it that he has problems getting along with his team mates how does the coach handles him or for that matter Strauss?

[Ultimate_Game]

This is what KP said last year..... At the ripe old age of 30, Kevin Pietersen is on the way out. Who says so? England’s best batsman himself says so. As he arrived for two games in South Africa before the Ashes in Australia, he said: “I am 30 years old now. I have probably got to the top of the fence and am on the way down now. It is nice if you can help somebody else.†An interesting take, given that Sachin Tendulkar, seven years older, has just been named the ICC’s Test cricketer of the year. Pietersen, who will play two games for his original first class team, KwaZulu Natal Dolphins, said in Durban: “I am out here now to try and put things right, to spend some time in the middle and work a lot harder than I have worked before so that I am in the best nick possible come the Ashes tour. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A player in decline does not mean that he becomes totally useless. They will still have their moments and make the odd score. It's just that aren't consistently brilliant like they were at their best. When they go from being in decline to becoming a liability, you get rid of them.

Tendulkar and KP are different kind of players with a very different mental makeup. Tendulkar is the sort of guy who takes pride in his performance and will give it his all no matter who is playing against and who is the captain. That sort of commitment is the reason he's where he is even 21 years of professional cricket! And that's why Indians have a special place for him in their heart. KP is a different beast, more like Symonds and Sreesanth, who needs to be handled delicately with kid gloves. Look what happened to Symonds after he felt he was "let down" and "betrayed" by his board. I suspect KP felt the same way after his captaincy was taken away from him post Moores debacle. I have a hunch KP thinks he never quite got the backing from ECB which he deserved when he had the standoff with Moores. His performances have been going downhill since. I repeat that if he had been backed fully and given full support, or if he had played under someone like Brearly, Imran or Dhoni, he would have been a different player altogether. I suspect KP is going the Symonds way and may retire from intl cricket to become a T20 mercenary as he thinks he will never get the full backing of ECB.

[Serani]

Have put all my money on an Indian victory.

[RedFlow]

Yes, they can and I think it wouldn't be a upset. Everyone knows India main problem is bowling. If India will go with two seamers then West Indies are favorite for me. As everyone knows only Zaheer is most economical and wicket taker bowler but problem with him is his speed. If he is not getting assistance with pitch he can be targeted. In SA match Zaheer's over in batting powerplay was the most expensive over of the match. Sreesanth should be included in the team. Atleast he tries different things. I have not seen Zaheer or Munaf or Nehra bowling bouncers yet. They are to scared to get a wide or extras. Even yorkers are very rare. They are very predictable. If West Indies bat first and scores 340. Can India chase? I don't think so. Ben is the second highest wicket taker and Roach has speed and killing yorkers. If India can sacrifice one batsman and go with 5 bowlers(3 seamers and 2 spinners) they can easily win all matches and World Cup. Zaheer and Sreesanth new ball bowlers. Both of them are capable of taking 2 3 wickets in first 12 overs. Then Munaf and spinners job becomes much easier. In SA and England match India was short of one bowler that's why they lost!!!!!

[theanalyst]

Tendulkar and KP are different kind of players with a very different mental makeup. Tendulkar is the sort of guy who takes pride in his performance and will give it his all no matter who is playing against and who is the captain. That sort of commitment is the reason he's where he is even 21 years of professional cricket! And that's why Indians have a special place for him in their heart. KP is a different beast, more like Symonds and Sreesanth, who needs to be handled delicately with kid gloves. Look what happened to Symonds after he felt he was "let down" and "betrayed" by his board. I suspect KP felt the same way after his captaincy was taken away from him post Moores debacle. I have a hunch KP thinks he never quite got the backing from ECB which he deserved when he had the standoff with Moores. His performances have been going downhill since. I repeat that if he had been backed fully and given full support, or if he had played under someone like Brearly, Imran or Dhoni, he would have been a different player altogether. I suspect KP is going the Symonds way and may retire from intl cricket to become a T20 mercenary as he thinks he will never get the full backing of ECB.

You're right about the affect of the captaincy but that was his fault. Btw, he also tried to get Flower sacked and he is the current coach. I don't think that it is the main reason for his decline though. Like I said, it's not easy to stay at the top. The reason why the ECB didn't back him is that they couldn't. KP didn't have the support of him own team and nearly all of them sided with Flower and Moores. How could they back one man over the whole team? Reg Tendulkar: Mate, he is in a different league. PS: I read this article by the former England batsman Steve James in the Torygraph today. Here is a nice piece from that: My dear father is in his late seventies and not in the best of health, but any Tendulkar innings is always bound to cheer. I called him on Saturday. “Are you watching my mate?†he asked in reference to the ‘Little Master’. And off he went in another paean to Tendulkar, with particular emphasis upon the fact that he bats “properlyâ€.

[theanalyst]

@analyst im quite surprised that he thinks that way as you said that the team was quite releived when he was gone so is it that he has problems getting along with his team mates how does the coach handles him or for that matter Strauss?

With great difficulty, I'm guessing. He has been a problem even in the past but his runs made people put up with him. I hope that he gets back to his best this summer. He loves the Indian bowling. Hope that you guys bowl him into form. :two_thumbs_up:

[Switchblade]

@ analyst Andy became the coach when Strauss was the captain so how he tried to get rid of him i know that he wanted Warne as a coach but what made the players to take the side of Moores and now Flower is he a dictator in the dressing room

[Switchblade]

@ analyst hope not btw he is consistent in test matches but has this habit of getting out in 90s

[theanalyst]

@ analyst Andy became the coach when Strauss was the captain so how he tried to get rid of him i know that he wanted Warne as a coach but what made the players to take the side of Moores and now Flower is he a dictator in the dressing room

Flower was the assistant coach then. KP tried to get rid of Moores (head coach) and Flower.