Bangladesh doesn't seem religious

[Anakin]

Do these people really read their own religious text?

No And as usual the victim-type mentality with holier than thou attitude are at full display

[sumon77]

BD poster sums up the attitude and mentality of most muzzis around the world. What is worrying is that educated and non jihadi type think like this. Guy says blame the followers who commit such acts and not the religion :hysterical: Do these people really read their own religious text?

same thing can be said against you. What is worrying is that educated and non fundie (self claimed) type Indians hate a major religion (2nd largest regarding number of followers).

[CC1981]

(self claimed) type Indians hate a major religion (2nd largest regarding number of followers).

Throw away concepts like jihad, mujahideen etc. from your religion (basically fighting IN THE NAME OF RELIGION AS SANCTIONED IN KORAN) and nobody will be concerned about the '2nd largest' faith. And no, same thing cannot be said- i demonstrated that the biggest problem in religion these days is Islam, where the overwhelming majority of people killing and violence in the name of religion comes from Islam TODAY. This is undeniable and therefore, its not just a diffrence in perspective. Its cold, hard facts. Problem with your religion is that its rules, mentality and behaviour is stuck in the 6th Century AD barbaric Arabia and it has rather arrogantly shut itself off from reform by claiming that it is absolute,final and beyond change. I know Mo came up with this to protect the faith and he felt disgusted at the Jews/Christians that they couldn't hold their scriptures together but really, Mo was violating one of the most fundamental laws of nature: That which doesnt change becomes obsolete and eventually dies. Christianity was just as barbaric as Islam but they atleast have room for discarding obsolete scriptures and filling in with up-to-date ideas. Islam will either have to reform itself or it too will die as Islam is clearly at odds with the multicultural, religiously liberal (and religion being a personalised domain of the individual rather than wolf-packs of ummah) and largely secular world which is most of the non-islamic world.

[sumon77]

Throw away concepts like jihad, mujahideen etc. from your religion (basically fighting IN THE NAME OF RELIGION AS SANCTIONED IN KORAN) and nobody will be concerned about the '2nd largest' faith. And no, same thing cannot be said- i demonstrated that the biggest problem in religion these days is Islam, where the overwhelming majority of people killing and violence in the name of religion comes from Islam TODAY. This is undeniable and therefore, its not just a diffrence in perspective. Its cold, hard facts. Problem with your religion is that its rules, mentality and behaviour is stuck in the 6th Century AD barbaric Arabia and it has rather arrogantly shut itself off from reform by claiming that it is absolute,final and beyond change. I know Mo came up with this to protect the faith and he felt disgusted at the Jews/Christians that they couldn't hold their scriptures together but really, Mo was violating one of the most fundamental laws of nature: That which doesnt change becomes obsolete and eventually dies. Christianity was just as barbaric as Islam but they atleast have room for discarding obsolete scriptures and filling in with up-to-date ideas. Islam will either have to reform itself or it too will die as Islam is clearly at odds with the multicultural, religiously liberal (and religion being a personalised domain of the individual rather than wolf-packs of ummah) and largely secular world which is most of the non-islamic world.

CC.. I understand your concern. The fact about Islam is "it is absolute,final and beyond change". this is one of the basic faith in islam. this is the final religion and will be same till the end. If anyone doesnt believe this he cant claim as a muslim. As you know, Quran is the holy book that contains all the rules, regulations, phillosophy..everything. But it is not easy to understand from there specially if we are not knowledgable enough or to take a single line without concerning the context. Mohammad had told to follow a hierarchy for any inquire... 1. First read Quran, 2. if you dont understand from there or cant get it clearly, then look at Hadif (which are the books written by the companions of Muhammad about his life.. which we believe is a real life demonstration of islamic way of life).Hadif is more elaborate than Quran and explains things with its context. 3. However, even its not clear from Hadif, then you should look into Tafsirs (which are the books with elaborate explanation of Quran written by muslim scholars). 4. Even still cant get a clear understanding, then the scholars should sit together and take a decision. Therefore, though the Quran is the final and ultimate guide, its implementation on different situation is not overruled. And its the responsibilty of the muslim scholars/leaders not to mislead. Also, another thing, as you may have thought that Jihad is one of the main activity in islam, but it is not. It is there only if necessary, if your religion is under threat, only then you defend it. ofcourse its encouraged in islam to defend the religion. but that doesnt mean brutality. even if you look at the last battle of islam led by Muhammad when Mecca was concoured, no oppisiton was taken prosoner or sentenced, rather forgiven. And there is a famous quote, "The writings/speech of a scholar is much more valuable than the blood of a martyr". sorry for the long one.. and pls dont take it as preaching, i just responded to you as I felt that you have the idea that Islam ITSELF is the problem. Anyway, I dont know that much about islam myself regarding its huge depth, and ofcourse you will find much better explanations anywhere in the net.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[sumon77]

For a book written by none other than God himself and supposed to be very clear why does it need help from soo many people to get to understand it ?

Bheem vai... if a book of few hundred pages contains everything till the end of the world (its muslim belief) then you understand it should be very concise, and the written style and context was such that Arab of that time would understand easily. so we from differnt time and culture might find it difficult to realize the actual content or meaning. The most simple example can be as our Mullahs always talk about how many Jihad Muhammad went through but they fail to discuss why he had to fight those battles and what extent you fight. Right now I can remember one, where muslims were in good position and then the oppision proposed a peace treaty and Muhammad accepted it though opposed by the other generals. He said, if we are given an opportunity for peace, we should take it.

And also why does it have some serious scientific errors ? The most prominent being calculation error in timespan of a Calendar year and where sperm originates (Backbone) ?

Not sure what specifially you meant, as far as i know, Arab calander is lunar one. Actually its not necessarily is muslim calender as Muhammad didnt introduced it. Since Muhammad was an Arab, the context of Quran is Arab also and for unity and simplicity, all over the world, muslim follows the same for religious purpose like ramadan or Eid. If Muhammad was born in Bangladesh, the language of Quran would be in Bangla as well as following Bangla calender. As I am not a biologist, cant answer your second one, but just as a science researcher myself, I believe, the science evolved so far isnt final one, we still dont know which will be discovered tomorrow or 100 years after and anything mentioned in Quran is the final one which yet to be discovered by human.

[CC1981]

this is one of the basic faith in islam. this is the final religion and will be same till the end. If anyone doesnt believe this he cant claim as a muslim. As you know, Quran is the holy book that contains all the rules, regulations, phillosophy..everything.

And that is the main problem. You guys have tried to make something final and be-all in an ever-changing world. Ie, stopped evolving. Logical progression - downhill. You guys should work on overcomming that basic assumption. Common sense should tell you that nothing 'final' and 'static for ever' can hold because the universe itself is not static. One who doesnt realize this cannot fathom the basics of our existance i think.

Also, another thing, as you may have thought that Jihad is one of the main activity in islam, but it is not. It is there only if necessary, if your religion is under threat, only then you defend it. ofcourse its encouraged in islam to defend the religion. but that doesnt mean brutality. even if you look at the last battle of islam led by Muhammad when Mecca was concoured, no oppisiton was taken prosoner or sentenced, rather forgiven.

For one, Mo was no stranger to genocide. Look up Banu Qurayzaa. Fact is he ordered men sold & their wives taken as slaves. For two, this is 'in theory'. In practice, aggressive brutality in name of Islam simply to kill kaffirs and spread the faith has been the main nature of jihads historically.

i just responded to you as I felt that you have the idea that Islam ITSELF is the problem.

After reading the Koran completely and living in Arabia for 4 years, that is precisely the conclusion i've come to- its not the people that are the problem, its the demented philosophy they are following that is the problem. This is why i am far more tolerant of muslims as people than i am of Islam as a religion/theology.

As I am not a biologist, cant answer your second one, but just as a science researcher myself, I believe, the science evolved so far isnt final one, we still dont know which will be discovered tomorrow or 100 years after and anything mentioned in Quran is the final one which yet to be discovered by human.

If you have an iota of science training and you've read the koran's explicit abdominal origin of sperm, you know flat out that it is 100.0000 % false. There is nothing more to be found about this. Sperm comes from your balls. End of story. PS: You mean to say that while God gave mohammed all the things he needed to know in life, he didnt bother giving Mo a proper calendar ?!? But somehow we Kaffirs (that includes your ancient Bengali ancestors too) had a calendar far far better than Mo's lunar calendar. Interesting, innit ? PPS: Your whole idea that Koran is an infallible and perfect book is a ludicrous premise. You cannot have a perfect book without having a perfect languange, since book = a language that is written down. Since Arabic is not a perfect language ( and far more illogical than bangla/hindi), logical extension is you cannot have a perfect book before you have a perfect language.

[sumon77]

And that is the main problem. You guys have tried to make something final and be-all in an ever-changing world. Ie, stopped evolving. Logical progression - downhill.

I dont see it as problem. Remember, we believe, Quran is from God, so He himself knows the end. And Quran said how to live a life, what should be done.. good and bad things. its more like giving a proper guidance on every aspects of human being. And I said before, there are 4 ways to understand if there is any confusion. why do you think this opportunity was given. because Quran is more likely written in metamorphically so its not very easy to to understand even you read it through. thats why there are explanations available in Hadifs as well as Tafsirs. Even discussion between scholars to take decision on specific cases has been kept open. Why do you dint this has been granted. Because it was written 1500 years ago in a context of that time. so its sort of extrapolating to the other time and regions. thats why you have to understand the context and inner meaning of each line whlie you read, otherwise it can be misleading. Quran didnt ask us to stop evolving, rather encourage us to evolve to understand it more and more. If you tell me something which will happen 100 years after, can i understand that without evolving?

You guys should work on overcomming that basic assumption. Common sense should tell you that nothing 'final' and 'static for ever' can hold because the universe itself is not static. One who doesnt realize this cannot fathom the basics of our existance i think.

the basic assumption in islam is very simple. there is only one God and Islam is the final version as religion. It doesnt conflict with world being dynamic or muslims beling dynamic. Society along with science, politics and others will evolve. there is no problem with islam about these. Islam gave you the basic guidance for all time ofcourse, like these are good and these are to be avoided. the bottom line is the belief in one God is static, not the muslim society should be static.

For one, Mo was no stranger to genocide. Look up Banu Qurayzaa. Fact is he ordered men sold & their wives taken as slaves.

true, thats why Muhammad was sent to Arab as there were so much injustice and brutality going on. You may know that, there were millions of prophets sent since the very beginning and mostly when a society goies through too much trouble speically for mankind, those places were blessed by prophest for guidance. what do u mean by he oredered men sold and wives taken? if you direct tp Muhammad, then I say, no, only once he bought a slave who was suffering byb his then master and then set him free, later whom he gave the honor of being the first one to announce Azan. No woman or man are allowed to taken as slaves in islam.

For two, this is 'in theory'. In practice, aggressive brutality in name of Islam simply to kill kaffirs and spread the faith has been the main nature of jihads historically.

not necessarily. if you look at battles during Muhammad you wont see brutality. Actually, even for war, there are guidance, you cant harm, women, children, older ppl, animals, even trees with fruits. only you have to fight with your opponents. I already mentioned the last war faught by Muhammad where he didnt take even slightest revenge against his enemies. he forgave all, and taking over Mecca was peaceful. Those days spreading your faith wasnt easy, when you go outside to spread your faith, the rulers there didnt accept them and as a result wars were to be faught. Thats why you see for Islam and Christians, there are lot of wars in their history and as a result they are all over the world now. For the same reason, you dont see Hindu, Budhdhist or othe religions spreaded that much rather concentrated in regions.

After reading the Koran completely and living in Arabia for 4 years, that is precisely the conclusion i've come to- its not the people that are the problem, its the demented philosophy they are following that is the problem. This is why i am far more tolerant of muslims as people than i am of Islam as a religion/theology.

ofcourse i believe you have read Quran completely, but that doesnt mean that you have understood it. Even Mullahs not only read but memorize Qruan completely, that doesnt mean they understand islam completely. Even if you read a book of your field, you wont understand everything. then how do you expect to understand inslam which is not limited by a bok only rather a philosophy.

If you have an iota of science training and you've read the koran's explicit abdominal origin of sperm, you know flat out that it is 100.0000 % false. There is nothing more to be found about this. Sperm comes from your balls. End of story.

for this one you can just search the net, will find many explanations from islamic point of view. As i know a little bit fo science which taught me that an object can be viewed from different angle and all of them might be right.

PS: You mean to say that while God gave mohammed all the things he needed to know in life, he didnt bother giving Mo a proper calendar ?!? But somehow we Kaffirs (that includes your ancient Bengali ancestors too) had a calendar far far better than Mo's lunar calendar. Interesting, innit ?

God didnt give Muhammad all the things needed in life rather gave the guidance. Men themselves have to manufacture what they need. God's intenision is not to make muslims better equipped rather giving the guidance. Personally I dont find any probelm with lunar calendar for ramadan and eid and follow english one for daily life.

PPS: Your whole idea that Koran is an infallible and perfect book is a ludicrous premise. You cannot have a perfect book without having a perfect languange, since book = a language that is written down. Since Arabic is not a perfect language ( and far more illogical than bangla/hindi), logical extension is you cannot have a perfect book before you have a perfect language.

[King]

Guys drop this religion discussions it doesn't get you folks anywhere. You guys practice what you think is best. IMO none should be influenced by anyone and everyone is free to follow what they want. It will end up futile and all you folks will end up feeling great about your own religions. There are much better things you guys can do in life than discuss religions. BTW these days media plays a huge role in depicting each religions. Right now Islam seems to be under the scanner simply because of 9/11. There were Christian crusaders post AD but the media seems to have forgiven those barbaric crusades. Don't simply believe what some web site sprout, there are plenty of things that they get wrong too. I know for sure Hinduism has a lot of flaws too but that doesn't stop me from following it does it?

[King]

BD poster sums up the attitude and mentality of most muzzis around the world. What is worrying is that educated and non jihadi type think like this. Guy says blame the followers who commit such acts and not the religion :hysterical: Do these people really read their own religious text?

I know I'm not going to be liked for this but I ask you this, have you read it? If not then what is your source? Also I ask you if you have read your religious text at all? I haven't read anything concerning my religion, everything concerning religion has been passed on to me by my parents. A lot I know doesn't make sense. Does that mean I should desist being a Hindu? None of these religions are perfect, just take the good ones and get along with it.

[kumble_rocks]

CC kicking some serious ar$e .:angel_smile: You have raised some valid points here very eloquently. I share your sentiments. Well done !:wtg:

[King Tendulkar]

same thing can be said against you. What is worrying is that educated and non fundie (self claimed) type Indians hate a major religion (2nd largest regarding number of followers).

Correction it seems the whole world dislikes Islam. All non muslims seem to dislike Islam and Islam it seems is at war with the rest of the world(kaffirs) Is the whole of the rest of the world wrong?

[Gaurav]

I know I'm not going to be liked for this but I ask you this, have you read it? If not then what is your source? Also I ask you if you have read your religious text at all? I haven't read anything concerning my religion, everything concerning religion has been passed on to me by my parents. A lot I know doesn't make sense. Does that mean I should desist being a Hindu? None of these religions are perfect, just take the good ones and get along with it.

Yes I have read English translations of Quran and Hadiths. I have also lived in 99% muslim areas so I know a thing or two about ROP (religion of peace) Have I read Hindu text? Yes some of it if not all BUT the difference is that I am not willing to kill anyone for any text whether fully read or half read! Religious text is not perfect because it was written by humans without any divine intervention. Look at Sumon...the guy is on a religious high and talks like a pre-programmed zombie. Ravi why don't you read some stuff yourself about Uncle Mo? Here in bite sized nuggets. Oh! not one muzzi can challenge that the quotes used in the book as far as their accuracy is concerned!

Does that mean I should desist being a Hindu?

Sure if you think there is double speak and things appear false to you then why not? Look at me I have rejected all religious texts and have been a happy Atheist for last 10+ years. Sumon god must be very dumb if he can't even send a book that the common man can understand clearly? Metaphoric my @ss! Don't you just love when muzzis say that they are 2nd largest religion, fastest growing religion etc :hysterical: As if that makes it true somehow? :haha: Text from an Iranian apostate-

Muzzi- What you write about the Prophet is offensive to those of us who believe in him as a messenger of God. You are insulting us and the religion of more than a billion people.

Iranian Apostate- I do not insult people nor do I taunt their beliefs. I am after facts and the truth. If I say something that I believe is true and you are offended, it is not my fault. If I steal and you go around saying that I am a thief, you are not insulting me. You are simply telling the truth and it is your duty to warn others who may otherwise become my victims. If my kids are offended by that it is because they love me so much that they cannot face the truth. What they have to do is to prove my innocence or accept the fact that their beloved father was not a perfect man. But if they retort by calling you names then they are insulting you.

What I say about the Prophet are not insults but the truth.

The only words I know for a person who massacres his prisoners of war indiscriminately is a criminal and a mass murderer.

The only word I know for someone who at the age of 53 becomes aroused by a 9-year-old child is pedophile.

The only word I know that describes a person who raids merchant caravans and steals their goods is highway robber.

The only words that I know for someone who captures human beings and sells them or asks for ransom to release them is a slave merchant and a terrorist.

The only word that I know for someone who forces himself on a captured woman in the same day that he kills her father, husband and many of her relatives is a rapist.

The only word that I know that describes a person who sends his men to kill his opponents in the middle of the night traitorously is an assassin.

If you think these are offensive words please suggest other words that are less offensive. I promise to use them instead. But if Muslims are offended for they believe what I say is false then they have to prove it to me that these stories are all baseless.

[url=

http://www.humanists.net/alisina/faq.htm]

[kumble_rocks]

Ravi why don't you read some stuff yourself about Uncle Mo? Here in bite sized nuggets. Oh! not one muzzi can challenge that the quotes used in the book as far as their accuracy is concerned!

Jesus, You keep bringing Robert Spencer again and again. It's like asking Pat Robertson to comment about Hinduism,. Robert Spencer is known to be a right winger. Surely , we have to take what he says with a pinch of salt. Am I wrong ?

[The Outsider]

The topic of the thread was a cricket related observation on whether the crowds and players in Bangladesh look overtly religious. Can we keep the discussion to that and not go around the usual bashing of a religion. This is not the place for such discussions.

[The Outsider]

BTW, the blogs are once again active and functioning and you are free to post anything and everything related to religion there.

[Gaurav]

Jesus' date=' You keep bringing Robert Spencer again and again. It's like asking Pat Robertson to comment about Hinduism,. Robert Spencer is known to be a right winger. Surely , we have to take what he says with a pinch of salt. Am I wrong ?[/quote'] First of all Spencer is no Pat Robertson. Secondly if Pat said something about Hinduism with clear reference and quotes from Hindu religious text then what is wrong with that? Just because someone is right wing or left wing does not mean that their message is automatically false. Why not answer the second part of my post if Spencer is not to your liking? Do you dispute any of the points a normal Iranian guy makes about Mo? What is with people? Nut job religions have clearly laid out everything in B&W and people still beat around the bush and make excuses :angry_smile:

[Gambit]

The topic of the thread was a cricket related observation on whether the crowds and players in Bangladesh look overtly religious. Can we keep the discussion to that and not go around the usual bashing of a religion. This is not the place for such discussions.

Guys as shwetabh said can we stick to cricket here please?

[theguyinallblue]

Miraz and Sumon77 are good posters..i have read their posts in bangla forum..welcome brothers... Now regarding OP ..BD people are nationalist more or less..and i am sure for them BD comes first ..not Islam...Alas!! same can not be said about our other neighbor..

[kumble_rocks]

First of all Spencer is no Pat Robertson. Secondly if Pat said something about Hinduism with clear reference and quotes from Hindu religious text then what is wrong with that? Just because someone is right wing or left wing does not mean that their message is automatically false. Why not answer the second part of my post if Spencer is not to your liking? Do you dispute any of the points a normal Iranian guy makes about Mo? What is with people? Nut job religions have clearly laid out everything in B&W and people still beat around the bush and make excuses :angry_smile:

Relax Yaar. I have my doubts about spencer. That's all man. No likes or dislikes here. Also, It is a fact that muslims posters are also reading this thread and they will feel like puking after reading some of the stuff written by the Iranian dude about Mo. So , little sensitivity will go a long way , mate.Anyway , to be honest , I have no answer to your questions about Mo. Nothing wrong with Pat Robertson saying sh.it about Hinduism with clear reference and quotes from Hindu religious text . Only problem is , he does not want to hear sh.it about his religion.