vaibhav_delhi Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Vaibhav where are you, take the charge ,fanboys are winning the battle here :hitler: Well on one of the unbiased forums(on sachin), I consistently keep reading that kallis is the current greatest which I also believe from a long time. wanted to see what people here think, and the responses here don't come as a surprise to me. :) started a poll there yterday nite, most opinions there seem to be of the form: Cricketer - Kallis by a mile Batsmen - Tendulkar by a bit http://forum.sportal.com.au/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80761 I know many fanboys would feel the urge to rig that poll n the opinions...:)
vaibhav_delhi Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 1. Sehwag has 150 test innings and has faced 9393 balls in test cricket: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/35263.html Sachin has 290 Test innings and has faced 28000 balls in test cricket: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/35320.html sehwag made test debut in 2001, while sachin in 1989. So, would you say sehwag has played nearly half of cricket that sachin has played or say he's played nearly 33.5% (9393/28000) cricket of sachin? 2. sachin batted as opener in ODIs n at No. 4 in tests during most part of his career, while Kallis has batted at No. 3 mostly. Its not like Kallis has batted in lower middle order and hence dint get enough number of innings or more number of not outs. So, while comparing the amount of cricket played, number of innings Not the SR( or balls faced) is a fair criteria. Kallis has 74% ofsachin's innings. sachin has 22 yrs of international cricket while kallis has 16 yrs. This also suggests kallis has played arnd 72% (16/22) of sachin's cricket. We dint even need to go into all this as this should have been an obvious thing.
vaibhav_delhi Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 I agree that Kallis has had to face a few hostile fast bowlers less during his career but would like you to appreciate a few points: 1. Kallis has played a large part of his cricket in SA where conditions are less batsmen friendly than here in india (where sachin has played a largest chunk of his cricket.) 2. I have always considered kallis as a better batsman than sachin under pressure situations in test cricket. Some stats to back this up: Kallis has 1st innings avg of 55.80 and 2nd innings avg of 60.51: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting 3. Its tough for SA batsmen to play quality spin in the subcontinent (same way the indian batsmen struggle relatively in seam n bounce conditions). Kallis has an impressive avg of 58.66 in india\sl\pak. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting Considering everything, I'd still say sachin is slightly better than kallis as a batter but kallis is by far the greatest cricketer for being an allrounder....
Sachin=GOD Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 the point was to compare who played more cricket, and in that, test match strike rates should be irrelevant. well If you knew, you could have mentioned this earlier. Becoz I dint know and accidentally saw it when I wanted to compare test match strike rates(which is missing in sachin's stats) Well on one of the unbiased forums(on sachin), I consistently keep reading that kallis is the current greatest which I also believe from a long time. wanted to see what people here think, and the responses here don't come as a surprise to me. :) started a poll there yterday nite, most opinions there seem to be of the form: http://forum.sportal.com.au/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80761 I know many fanboys would feel the urge to rig that poll n the opinions...:) 1. Sehwag has 150 test innings and has faced 9393 balls in test cricket: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/35263.html Sachin has 290 Test innings and has faced 28000 balls in test cricket: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/35320.html sehwag made test debut in 2001, while sachin in 1989. So, would you say sehwag has played nearly half of cricket that sachin has played or say he's played nearly 33.5% (9393/28000) cricket of sachin? 2. sachin batted as opener in ODIs n at No. 4 in tests during most part of his career, while Kallis has batted at No. 3 mostly. Its not like Kallis has batted in lower middle order and hence dint get enough number of innings or more number of not outs. So, while comparing the amount of cricket played, number of innings Not the SR( or balls faced) is a fair criteria. Kallis has 74% ofsachin's innings. sachin has 22 yrs of international cricket while kallis has 16 yrs. This also suggests kallis has played arnd 72% (16/22) of sachin's cricket. We dint even need to go into all this as this should have been an obvious thing. I agree that Kallis has had to face a few hostile fast bowlers less during his career but would like you to appreciate a few points: 1. Kallis has played a large part of his cricket in SA where conditions are less batsmen friendly than here in india (where sachin has played a largest chunk of his cricket.) 2. I have always considered kallis as a better batsman than sachin under pressure situations in test cricket. Some stats to back this up: Kallis has 1st innings avg of 55.80 and 2nd innings avg of 60.51: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting 3. Its tough for SA batsmen to play quality spin in the subcontinent (same way the indian batsmen struggle relatively in seam n bounce conditions). Kallis has an impressive avg of 58.66 in indiaslpak. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting Considering everything, I'd still say sachin is slightly better than kallis as a batter but kallis is by far the greatest cricketer for being an allrounder.... Okay.
SachDan Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 1. Sehwag has 150 test innings and has faced 9393 balls in test cricket: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/35263.html Sachin has 290 Test innings and has faced 28000 balls in test cricket: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/35320.html sehwag made test debut in 2001, while sachin in 1989. So, would you say sehwag has played nearly half of cricket that sachin has played or say he's played nearly 33.5% (9393/28000) cricket of sachin? 2. sachin batted as opener in ODIs n at No. 4 in tests during most part of his career, while Kallis has batted at No. 3 mostly. Its not like Kallis has batted in lower middle order and hence dint get enough number of innings or more number of not outs. So, while comparing the amount of cricket played, number of innings Not the SR( or balls faced) is a fair criteria. Kallis has 74% ofsachin's innings. sachin has 22 yrs of international cricket while kallis has 16 yrs. This also suggests kallis has played arnd 72% (16/22) of sachin's cricket. We dint even need to go into all this as this should have been an obvious thing. I agree that Kallis has had to face a few hostile fast bowlers less during his career but would like you to appreciate a few points: 1. Kallis has played a large part of his cricket in SA where conditions are less batsmen friendly than here in india (where sachin has played a largest chunk of his cricket.) 2. I have always considered kallis as a better batsman than sachin under pressure situations in test cricket. Some stats to back this up: Kallis has 1st innings avg of 55.80 and 2nd innings avg of 60.51: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting 3. Its tough for SA batsmen to play quality spin in the subcontinent (same way the indian batsmen struggle relatively in seam n bounce conditions). Kallis has an impressive avg of 58.66 in indiaslpak. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting Considering everything, I'd still say sachin is slightly better than kallis as a batter but kallis is by far the greatest cricketer for being an allrounder.... Okay
Sid Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Bossbhai hasnt retorted to Okay yet, :woot: . Now a 2 way battle going on between Bossbhai and Vaibhav,lets see who comes out trump
Sachin=GOD Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Bossbhai hasnt retorted to Okay yet' date=' :woot: . Now a 2 way battle going on between Bossbhai and Vaibhav,lets see who comes out trump [/quote'] Its not a battle. Its just Vaibhav making a fool of himself over and over again.
vaibhav_delhi Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 errrr.....you made the mistake of including Kallis' 16 T20 innings(sachin has only 1 T20) where batsmen aren't as profilic scoreres as they are in ODIs and Test. 1. ODIs Sachin has 18111 runs in 442 innings. Kallis has 11227 (62% of sachin) runs in 300 innings(67.8%). 2. Tests: Sachin has 14692 runs in 290 innings. Kallis has 11947 (81.32% of sachin) runs in 246 innings(84.8% of sachin). Again kallis with slightly better avg. but slightly less runs per innings. And Overall: ratio of innings (excluding T20s): 546/732 = 74.5% Ratio of runs(excluding T20s): 23174/32803 = 70.7% As I see it, the difference in runs per innings is not much to say that sachin is vastly better. Kallis doesn't open the innings like sachin, so he doesn't get as much chance as sachin to maximize the runs that he can possibley get(before getting out that is). This is evident in 53 out of 300 'not outs' for kallis n 41 out of 442 for sachin. And kallis having slightly better ODI avg. As I've said earlier, Sachin is a better batsman by a slight margin but if you include bowling and fielding, gets beaten by Kallis by a huge margin. Also, there is\was no rhetoric, balls faced(SR) should not be a factor while deciding the amount of cricket played. And yeah, I am also comparing only stats, not accommodating factors for which kallis has to be given the due credit(given in post#67, higher 2nd innings avg of 60.5 etc).
vaibhav_delhi Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Runs per innings (excluding T20s): kallis 23174/546 = 42.44 tendu: 32803/732 = 44.81 Part of the reason for this is already explained in bolded text in the above post.
Sachin=GOD Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 errrr.....you made the mistake of including Kallis' 16 T20 innings(sachin has only 1 T20) where batsmen aren't as profilic scoreres as they are in ODIs and Test. 1. ODIs Sachin has 18111 runs in 442 innings. Kallis has 11227 (62% of sachin) runs in 300 innings(67.8%). 2. Tests: Sachin has 14692 runs in 290 innings. Kallis has 11947 (81.32% of sachin) runs in 246 innings(84.8% of sachin). Again kallis with slightly better avg. but slightly less runs per innings. And Overall: ratio of innings (excluding T20s): 546/732 = 74.5% Ratio of runs(excluding T20s): 23174/32803 = 70.7% As I see it, the difference in runs per innings is not much to say that sachin is vastly better. Kallis doesn't open the innings like sachin, so he doesn't get as much chance as sachin to maximize the runs that he can possibley get(before getting out that is). This is evident in 53 out of 300 'not outs' for kallis n 41 out of 442 for sachin. And kallis having slightly better ODI avg. As I've said earlier, Sachin is a better batsman by a slight margin but if you include bowling and fielding, gets beaten by Kallis by a huge margin. Also, there iswas no rhetoric, balls faced(SR) should not be a factor while deciding the amount of cricket played. And yeah, I am also comparing only stats, not accommodating factors for which kallis has to be given the due credit(given in post#67, higher 2nd innings avg of 60.5 etc). Runs per innings (excluding T20s): kallis 23174/546 = 42.44 tendu: 32803/732 = 44.81 Part of the reason for this is already explained in bolded text in the above post. Okay.
Sachin=GOD Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Statistics are like miniskirts (or bikinis). What they reveal is tantalizing, but what they hide is crucial - Navjot Singh Sidhu. I get the real meaning of this quote when I see Vaibhav arguing about all things related to cricket simply on the basis of stastguru.
vaibhav_delhi Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 ^^ The crux of the matter(atleast for me) is: 1. Kallis has slightly better average Test and ODI average than Tendulker. 2. Tendu has 2.37 more runs per innings than kallis. Part of the Reason: Kallis doesn't open the innings like sachin, so he doesn't get as much chance as sachin to maximize the runs that he can possibley get(before getting out that is). This is evident in 53 'not outs' from 300 ODI innings and 41 out of 442 for sachin. 3. Tendu has considerably better ODI Strike rate for which has should be given extra credit. 4.. Tendu has better batting record but the difference in batting is very small compared to difference in bowling n fielding between the two players.199 wkts, 242 catches for sachin . Kallis - 534 wkts, 288 catches for Kallis.
Sachin=GOD Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 ^^ The crux of the matter(atleast for me) is: 1. Kallis has slightly better average Test and ODI average than Tendulker. 2. Tendu has 2.37 more runs per innings than kallis. Part of the Reason: Kallis doesn't open the innings like sachin, so he doesn't get as much chance as sachin to maximize the runs that he can possibley get(before getting out that is). This is evident in 53 'not out' of 300 ODI innings and 41 out of 442 for sachin. 3. Tendu has considerably better ODI Strike rate for which has should be given extra credit. 4.. Tendu has better batting record but the difference in batting is very small compared to difference in bowling n fielding between the two players.199 wkts, 242 catches for sachin . Kallis - 534 wkts, 288 catches for Kallis. Okay.
ravishingravi Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 ^^ The crux of the matter(atleast for me) is: 1. Kallis has slightly better average Test and ODI average than Tendulker. 2. Tendu has 2.37 more runs per innings than kallis. Part of the Reason: Kallis doesn't open the innings like sachin, so he doesn't get as much chance as sachin to maximize the runs that he can possibley get(before getting out that is). This is evident in 53 'not outs' from 300 ODI innings and 41 out of 442 for sachin. 3. Tendu has considerably better ODI Strike rate for which has should be given extra credit. 4.. Tendu has better batting record but the difference in batting is very small compared to difference in bowling n fielding between the two players.199 wkts, 242 catches for sachin . Kallis - 534 wkts, 288 catches for Kallis. I think it is fair enough. But Kallis never could become the game breaker that he showed early in his career.
vaibhav_delhi Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 ^^ The crux of the matter(atleast for me) is: 1. Kallis has slightly better average Test and ODI average than Tendulker. 2. Tendu has 2.37 more runs per innings than kallis. Part of the Reason: Kallis doesn't open the innings like sachin, so he doesn't get as much chance as sachin to maximize the runs that he can possibley get(before getting out that is). This is evident in 53 'not outs' from 300 ODI innings and 41 out of 442 for sachin. 3. Tendu has considerably better ODI Strike rate for which has should be given extra credit. 4.. Tendu has better batting record but the difference in batting is very small compared to difference in bowling n fielding between the two players.199 wkts, 242 catches for sachin . Kallis - 534 wkts, 288 catches for Kallis. Missed one point : 5. Kallis has played roughly 74.4% of cricket that sachin has played.
The Outsider Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 3. Tendu has considerably better ODI Strike rate for which has should be given extra credit. Thank Lord for the small mercies of life.
ganeshran Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Arvind Kandapah of Canada is the greatest ODI cricketer in the world- He has a mindblowing batting average of 97 which is far more than any other cricketer in the world. His average of scoring 50s is 50% which means he scores a half century in every other match. Compare this with Sachin and Kallis and you will find their 50 scoring ratio is far lower. He comes in to bat at number 6 which gives him very less balls to face and so his average is even more impressive
ganeshran Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Thank Lord for the small mercies of life. :giggle::giggle:
Sachin=GOD Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Thank Lord for the small mercies of life. don't thank God, thank Vaibhav :giggle:
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