Asim Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 I failed? Oh let me guess Wikipedia is a zionist/hindoo/christian axis against Pakistan. Go look at the link genius - it clearly notes how the Pak slaves gave their yellow masters over 2000KM of land. On the second point I dont have any figures on Chinese massacres of Muslims. The articles i have sent you noted several hundreds on somedays. In the last 50 years a once 90% muslim state is now 50% Han Chinese. China is not the most transparent country - at least read the articles I sent you (all non-indian) since you have no clue on how the Chinese are cleansing Muslims similar to the Tibetians. Btw what is the "magic number" of Muslims that needs to be killed in China to give you Pakistanis anger about the killings of Muslims? You want India to China "Muslim killing" numbers? I admit I have no idea but you Paks seems so mad that India apparently kills Muslims and couldn't care less about Chinese atrocities. Why is that? Is there a magic number that provides outrage???? Pakistan is an indentured servant of country of China they are even begging them to make a naval base there to protect them from the Indian boogy man and these are the same people that are ethnically cleansing muslims. Ook you were talking about THIS hand over... Sorry but its funny because you probably don’t know there was a huge row last year that China have deployed forces in northern Pak and Gilgit etc etc and actually Pakistan have "handed it over" etc but ONLY by Indian media, I was referring to that because that was after proved absolutely false... and YES I never knew about that 64 or something hand-over you mentioned... Secondly, its not about any magic number, you did mentioned so many times why Pak have dual policy for India and China part and they are hypocrite etc. Now its rather you seems to have so much care for chinese part Muslims, way way more than Pak right?, I asked those 2 figures which you continuously refused to provide, now don’t give it to me but get it yourself figure#2 and check where actually you stands as for as dual face is concerned...
Asim Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 LOL nice try bro - Asim thinks Wikipedia is "an indian source" YOU FAILED :hysterical: Pakistanis living in Pakistan are totally disillusion Chinese hate them and are totally using them. Come to a country like Canada the irony is that most Pakistanis here try and associate with second generation Indians - Chinese have nothing to do with them here. Yeh bat tum ko Asim kay mohallay walun nay batae hey kya? :--D cz I never said any such thing... I was asking for a non-indian AND authenticated source (you know AND Gates)... I am not saying the info above is wrong and yeah I know wikipedia one massive source of information and even I myself use it alot but apparently its wi-ki and people usually dont use it to refer someone something as an authenticated source.
jonas10 Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Ook you were talking about THIS hand over... Sorry but its funny because you probably don’t know there was a huge row last year that China have deployed forces in northern Pak and Gilgit etc etc and actually Pakistan have "handed it over" etc but ONLY by Indian media, I was referring to that because that was after proved absolutely false... and YES I never knew about that 64 or something hand-over you mentioned... Secondly, its not about any magic number, you did mentioned so many times why Pak have dual policy for India and China part and they are hypocrite etc. Now its rather you seems to have so much care for chinese part Muslims, way way more than Pak right?, I asked those 2 figures which you continuously refused to provide, now don’t give it to me but get it yourself figure#2 and check where actually you stands as for as dual face is concerned... First of all thank you for admitting in my first point that you were unware that Pakistan handed over a piece of Kashmir to China. Yes we both agree now that the "independent Kashmir" which Pakistanis claim to fight for was given in part to China. I was not referring to the POK projects that the Chinese are involved in. They are involved in every facet of Pakistan as we all know including a full compromise of sovereignty with a pending naval base. On the second point I dont think anyone should be killed for their religion no matter what it is Kaffir or Non Kaffir. As I stated i have no idea on the amount of Muslims killed in China but they are being killed. I provided you links and evidence if you choose to bury your head in the sand so be it. Point is there are Muslims being killed in China for being Muslim. It would make a lot more sense for Pakistan "Muslims for all seasons" to hate BOTH India and China - at least I could say hey they are consistent they truely love all Muslims. All I see here is that Pakistan is obsessed with being a thorn in India's development story and using Kashmir as a reason to harass India. This is reinforced by the fact they claim to hate India for their treatment of Kashmiris yet they never raise their hand for the treatment of Muslims in China. Asim - even you yourself has not condemned the killing of Muslims in China - do you feel nothing for these people? I will whole heartily condemn the killing of anyone anywhere based on their religion including innocent Muslims in India.
Stuge Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Asim Are you saying "Aksai Chin" issue where Pakistan gave it away to China and the Karakoram tract iwhere the same exact thing happened, never happened? Stop making facts which aren't true.If you have any doubt better recheck them before posting .
triam Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Stop making facts which aren't true.If you have any doubt better recheck them before posting . huh? :cheer:
ganeshran Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Ook you were talking about THIS hand over... Sorry but its funny because you probably don’t know there was a huge row last year that China have deployed forces in northern Pak and Gilgit etc etc and actually Pakistan have "handed it over" etc but ONLY by Indian media, I was referring to that because that was after proved absolutely false... and YES I never knew about that 64 or something hand-over you mentioned... Secondly, its not about any magic number, you did mentioned so many times why Pak have dual policy for India and China part and they are hypocrite etc. Now its rather you seems to have so much care for chinese part Muslims, way way more than Pak right?, I asked those 2 figures which you continuously refused to provide, now don’t give it to me but get it yourself figure#2 and check where actually you stands as for as dual face is concerned... The report of last year is not the same as the Trans Karokaram tract. The fact that this region is Kashmiri territory is acknowledged in the 1963 pact between China and Pakistan. So my question is why did Pakistan hand over a region of Kashmir (in which it so viogrouosly promotes self determination for) to China, thereby bringing in another powerful party in the already crowded conflict. The last year's report you are referring to was NOT a creation of the Indian media, unless you consider the New York Times to be an Indian newspaper. Or Selig Harrison to be an Indian reporter, who incidentally is an expert on South Asia with more than 50 years of experience of writing about the region. This is the original report which Indian media cited - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/opinion/27iht-edharrison.html?ref=pakistan Obviously it cannot be independently authenticated since international media is not allowed free access in Azad Jammu and Kashmir. (Incidentally media is allowed to report from Indian Administered Kashmir and foreign media reported freely on most days even during the recent turbulence). But if the NyTimes is printing it, there obviously is some level of truth to it as they have their credibility on the line. If you consider Nytimes to be a biased source, then you will pretty much consider any media outside of Pakistan to be biased.
Asim Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 ... ... Asim - even you yourself has not condemned the killing of Muslims in China - do you feel nothing for these people? I will whole heartily condemn the killing of anyone anywhere based on their religion including innocent Muslims in India. Well although you are only referring to muslims as if I will condemn the killing of muslims only, for me whether its by china or india and one innocent whether he is muslim or non-muslim, Pakistani or non Pakistani, american or indian, victims of 9/11 or 26/11, Pakistani suicide attacks or drone attack victims, they are exactly the same and I condemn all regardless of religion or nationality, moreover my religion told me that killing of even one innocent is just like you are killing the whole humanity...
King Tendulkar Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Well although you are only referring to muslims as if I will condemn the killing of muslims only' date=' for me whether its by china or india and one innocent whether he is muslim or non-muslim, Pakistani or non Pakistani, american or indian, victims of 9/11 or 26/11, Pakistani suicide attacks or drone attack victims, they are exactly the same and I condemn all regardless of religion or nationality, moreover my religion told me that [b']killing of even one innocent is just like you are killing the whole humanity... So you would want pakistan to arrest and hand over dawood ibrahimand and Hafeez sayeed? As they are killing all of humanity right?
achilles Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Achilles is talking about the Durand Line.... Yes. Thank you.
jonas10 Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Well although you are only referring to muslims as if I will condemn the killing of muslims only' date=' for me whether its by china or india and one innocent whether he is muslim or non-muslim, Pakistani or non Pakistani, american or indian, victims of 9/11 or 26/11, Pakistani suicide attacks or drone attack victims, they are exactly the same and I condemn all regardless of religion or nationality, moreover my religion told me that killing of even one innocent is just like you are killing the whole humanity...[/quote'] You seem obsessed with comparing figures of those killed in India to China. If you really cared it wouldnt matter ONE would be more than enough. Yet I never see any outrage by Pakistanis for the atrocities in China. Either you are burying your head in the ground pretending all is well in the Middle Kingdom or you're a hypocrite plain and simple.
achilles Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 So you would want pakistan to arrest and hand over dawood ibrahimand and Hafeez sayeed? As they are killing all of humanity right? Umm... No. A person maybe a terrorist for one nation and freedom-fighter for another - Pervez Musharraf.
ravishingravi Posted June 4, 2011 Author Posted June 4, 2011 @ravishingravi, Please think calmly and deliberate on the problems faced in kashmir. We need to have comprehensive knowledge of its history and what consequences will it lead for Indian state. Is it not true that rampant violence has started in Kashmir only after Zia took to power and it has escalated during Benazri's first term? Were they not using the madrassas setup during this time for traning/brainswashing the jihadis to fight the holy war in Afghanistan with Soviet Union against India? Dont worry I am calm and I think you post have been very good, although there are more dimensions to it. Let us go back before Zia. 1971 war. India had played an active role in freedom of Bangladesh. This has an indelible impact on Pakistani esp. Pakistani miliary and ISI psyche. Till this day there are many still reeling with anger and they would not settle for anything less than breaking India or atleast freeing Kashmir. Looking back India had prevented a genocide or atleast reduced it. Cut to present, you wont find any difference between Pakistan and Bangladesh's attitude towards India. So its not like we hav an ally in Bangladesh. In fact, there destabilizing elements operating from Bangladesh. Lets go back even further, Ayub Khan had basically laid the foundations of unrest in Kashmir. Kashmiri people were content with the situation at the time and wanted to stay with India. But with the jihadi activities perpetrated by pakistan, they had been completelt antagonized against Pakistan. We had the 1965 war when Pak. was defeated. But India's behaviour towards Kashmiris got worse. Combination of Pakistan action and India treating them like a colony. So, I agree that Pakistan trained the mujaheedins in 70s for war against soviets and kept them and used them in India and Afghanistan and what we are saying is nothing but Karma at play. But it is also important to note that if we had gone as per 1949 UN resolution, it would have ended that dispute. Now the situation is, even Kashmiris dont want UN resolution. They dont wants to go with Pakistan and I think even Pak. establishment has accepted this and India isn't delivering governance. Hence a lot of them want complete autonomy. If Pakistan forgets this issue and stabilizes the situation at home and shifts from this ant India ( hindu ) centric view and this state of absolute paranoia and denial that pervades the nation, we can move forward as a region. Right now the best they can do is try and drag India down to their level which is difficult, since India has become integrated to the world.
jonas10 Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 Dont worry I am calm and I think you post have been very good, although there are more dimensions to it. Let us go back before Zia. 1971 war. India had played an active role in freedom of Bangladesh. This has an indelible impact on Pakistani esp. Pakistani miliary and ISI psyche. Till this day there are many still reeling with anger and they would not settle for anything less than breaking India or atleast freeing Kashmir. Looking back India had prevented a genocide or atleast reduced it. Cut to present, you wont find any difference between Pakistan and Bangladesh's attitude towards India. So its not like we hav an ally in Bangladesh. In fact, there destabilizing elements operating from Bangladesh. Lets go back even further, Ayub Khan had basically laid the foundations of unrest in Kashmir. Kashmiri people were content with the situation at the time and wanted to stay with India. But with the jihadi activities perpetrated by pakistan, they had been completelt antagonized against Pakistan. We had the 1965 war when Pak. was defeated. But India's behaviour towards Kashmiris got worse. Combination of Pakistan action and India treating them like a colony. So, I agree that Pakistan trained the mujaheedins in 70s for war against soviets and kept them and used them in India and Afghanistan and what we are saying is nothing but Karma at play. But it is also important to note that if we had gone as per 1949 UN resolution, it would have ended that dispute. Now the situation is, even Kashmiris dont want UN resolution. They dont wants to go with Pakistan and I think even Pak. establishment has accepted this and India isn't delivering governance. Hence a lot of them want complete autonomy. If Pakistan forgets this issue and stabilizes the situation at home and shifts from this ant India ( hindu ) centric view and this state of absolute paranoia and denial that pervades the nation, we can move forward as a region. Right now the best they can do is try and drag India down to their level which is difficult, since India has become integrated to the world. Thats all Pakistan wants to drag India down to the pathetic state of their country. India is a developing country that is progressing. Pakistan is a failed state that is digressing.
achilles Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 India is a developing country that is progressing. Pakistan is a failed state that is digressing. Thats a good way of putting it across.
Asim Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 because it is a blatant lie. Now reply to post#63. blatant lie, how?
Asim Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 ^ You can either agree or disagree on what you highlighted from my post but now you cant make fun of that... Its a verse from Holy Quran and a part of belief of every Muslim... really disappointing stuff from you...
Asim Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 because it is a blatant lie. Now reply to post#63. I don't subscribe to political correctness. However I will take back my words and post a public apology if you prove that this is indeed a fact and that it was put to practice by Gods Messenger and his companions and Caliphs. If you are mature enough to conduct such a discussion without getting emotional PM me. And any chance you will reply to post#63 ? As for as your asked prove and ans to #63 is concerned, even though I am not good in history and but I can still satisfy you with the things happening TODAY around you and me in this world... Ans is simple: In today's date Islam is still one of fastest growing religion by conversions, as on today Islam is fastest growing religion even in USA and Europe, each day people are still converting even in India, so tell me in today’s date, is it all happening around the whole world by force? You better ask them why they are converting. First ans you will get is: Islam is the only true religion & a religion of Peace... And Bro! how can you expect me to not get emotional when you are directly trying to insult and making fun of my religion... Not only mine but a religion of 200 million of your own country-fellows and 25% of whole population in world...
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