Guest BossBhai Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 -- Removed on request of the user -- Link to comment
zen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Avg from the above list: * Waugh - 46 (971 runs in 21 innings against SA and Pak) * Lara - 42 (2342 runs in 55 innings against Aus, SA and Pak) * Ten - 40 (1257 runs in 31 innings against Aus, SA and Pak) Lara has 55 completed innings against these bowlers! Link to comment
Sehwag1830 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Avg from the above list: * Waugh - 46 (971 runs in 21 innings against SA and Pak) * Lara - 42 (2342 runs in 55 innings against Aus, SA and Pak) * Ten - 40 (1257 runs in 31 innings against Aus, SA and Pak) Lara has 55 completed innings against these bowlers! Why you left Tendulkar's average against Ambrose and Walsh and Lara's average against India?:hmmm: Link to comment
zen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Avg from the above list: * Waugh - 46 (971 runs in 21 innings against SA and Pak) * Lara - 42 (2342 runs in 55 innings against Aus, SA and Pak) * Ten - 40 (1257 runs in 31 innings against Aus, SA and Pak) Lara has 55 completed innings against these bowlers! games involving Ambrose and Walsh Desi master doesn't figure in that as he probably has less than 200 runs against them or hasn't played too many games. But updated Waugh's average: * Waugh - 45 (2562 runs in 56 completed innings against SA, Pak and WI) * Gooch - 54 (1417 runs in 26 innings against Pak w/ the two Ws and WI w/ Ambrose and Walsh) :hatsoff: Link to comment
Sehwag1830 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 games involving Ambrose and Walsh Desi master doesn't figure in that as he probably has less than 200 runs against them or hasn't played too many games. But updated Waugh's average: * Waugh - 45 (2562 runs in 56 completed innings against SA, Pak and WI) * Gooch - 54 (1417 runs in 26 innings against Pak w/ the two Ws and WI w/ Ambrose and Walsh) :hatsoff: Well Sehwag has the most runs last decade against the best bowlers at the best average. Hope that makes him better than Lara by your logic :winky: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35263.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=140;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=batting_average;player_involve=19627;player_involve=2000;player_involve=2041;player_involve=2101;player_involve=2228;player_involve=47154;player_involve=5649;qualmin1=2000;qualval1=runs;spanmin1=01+jan+2000;spanval1=span;team=140;team=6;template=results;type=allround;view=series Link to comment
zen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Well Sehwag has the most runs last decade against the best bowlers at the best average. Hope that makes him better than Lara by your logic :winky: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35263.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=140;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=batting_average;player_involve=19627;player_involve=2000;player_involve=2041;player_involve=2101;player_involve=2228;player_involve=47154;player_involve=5649;qualmin1=2000;qualval1=runs;spanmin1=01+jan+2000;spanval1=span;team=140;team=6;template=results;type=allround;view=series Involving any of the players GD McGrath (Aus) or Mohammad Asif (Pak) or M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) or SM Pollock (SA) or Shoaib Akhtar (Pak) or DW Steyn (SA) or SK Warne (Aus) Link to comment
Sehwag1830 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 And why ? These were the best bowlers last decade. Link to comment
zen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 And why ? These were the best bowlers last decade. I rate Sehwag as arguably the best test batsman of the 2000s but that's not how I did my stats :winky: .... I can't explain you more than that Link to comment
zen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Avg from the above list: * Waugh - 46 (971 runs in 21 innings against SA and Pak) * Lara - 42 (2342 runs in 55 innings against Aus, SA and Pak) * Ten - 40 (1257 runs in 31 innings against Aus, SA and Pak) Lara has 55 completed innings against these bowlers! * Anwar - 40 (765 runs in 19 innings against Aus and SA) Link to comment
zen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 50+ scores per inning against: * Warne and McGrath * Donald and Pollock * Wasim and Waqar Batsmen: * Waugh - 33% (7/21) * Ten - 32% (10/31) * Lara - 29% (16/55) * Anwar - 27% (7/26) Link to comment
zen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Performances in won/tied/drawn games against: * Warne and McGrath * Donald and Pollock * Wasim and Waqar Batsmen: * Lara - 58 (1222 runs in 21 innings) * Waugh - 50 (846 runs in 17 innings) * Anwar - 45 (407 runs in 9 innings) * Tendulkar - 35 (207 runs in 6 innings) Link to comment
sarcastic Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=3;orderby=batting_average;player_involve=47154;player_involve=47289;player_involve_type=all;qualmin1=200;qualval1=runs;team=1;team=2;team=25;team=4;team=5;team=6;team=7;team=8;team=9;template=results;type=batting So Misbah , Azhar Ali , Chanderpaul , Ding Dong , PJ are better than Tendulkar and Sehwag against Dale Steyn & Morne The sample space is extremely less just as yet for how good are these everyone except for Bell and Sachin (5 tests). Both Bell and SRT played for 3 tests in SA against them. Also to mention Misbah and Azhar Ali played both those test matches on roads in UAE and Chanders faced them only in WI. Yes, Bell has done as good SRT against these two bowlers so far. Let us see what will happen after few years down the line. In any case, I think it does not disprove what "Rett" is trying to say given the large sample Rett takes in giving the averages against those great bowlers of 90's and early 2000's. Link to comment
sarcastic Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Performances in won/tied/drawn games against: * Warne and McGrath * Donald and Pollock * Wasim and Waqar Batsmen: * Lara - 58 (1222 runs in 21 innings) * Waugh - 50 (846 runs in 17 innings) * Anwar - 45 (407 runs in 9 innings) * Tendulkar - 35 (207 runs in 6 innings) I don't agree with this table comparison. SRT has only 6 innings as compared to others who played many more. It is possible that SRT is not at his best form when he was playing those few innings and I think this comparison does not truly reflect how good they were w.r.t. each other. Moreover, Comparing batsmen in matches won/drawn is really not an accurate indicator of anything. This has been widely discussed on this forum I believe. Link to comment
Guest BossBhai Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 -- Removed on request of the user -- Link to comment
akshayxyz Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 If I were to speak on behalf of SRT, I would not hesitate to accept - "I am worst batsman ever, I am still learning. tyvm." Any problems???? Link to comment
zen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I don't agree with this table comparison. SRT has only 6 innings as compared to others who played many more. It is possible that SRT is not at his best form when he was playing those few innings and I think this comparison does not truly reflect how good they were w.r.t. each other. Moreover, Comparing batsmen in matches won/drawn is really not an accurate indicator of anything. This has been widely discussed on this forum I believe. That was in matches that these guys either drew, tied or won against those bowlers .... Please refer to post 643 to see overall performance Link to comment
zen Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 As we can see from these numbers, there is no real advantage that Tendulkar offers, ESP. If he were to be touted as the greatest of all time. In many cases, You would be better off picking someone else like Richards or Sobers for example If there were no Bradman, the concept of the greatest batsman doesn't exists as other top batsmen are more or less on the same level :winky: Case closed :icflove: Link to comment
sarcastic Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 So does Bell play Steyn better than Tendulkar' date=' Sehwag and VVS based on this evidence ?[/quote'] Well, I don't think it conclusively indicates that Bell plays Steyn better than SRT/Veeru/VVS. Personally, I did not watch those matches when Bell played against Steyn n co LIVE to know how well he played. But, the stats do prove that he was as effective in the matches he played as compared to SRT/Viru/VVS as yet. Even if we (for the moment) take it that he plays as good as SRT, Veeru, VVS could as well be possible even if that does not mean that he is as good as them overall. An analogous example being VVS's performances against Warne + McGrath which I believe is comparable to that of SRT's performance against the same. If we want to make a case by case comparison we need to assimilate several such data. In this case, we need to do the same thing with other good bowlers vs Bell, SRT, Veeru, VVS etc which is partially what Rett has done in his comparisons of SRT with contemporaries against good bowlers. I don't really buy if he tells me that SRT is not as good as others in comparison but I can see his point in post #643 that SRT did not outperform as well as his overall career suggests against those set of bowlers. Comparisons aside from what I can see, Bell is an extremely gifted player with great potential and comes up with those occasional bursts of very good form. Apparently, he has matured a lot as a batsman pretty well in the recent past. I won't be surprised if Bell could as well prove himself in the league of VVS Laxman, Mark Waugh etc. towards the end of his career having some memorable knocks/achievements here and there. Link to comment
sarcastic Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 That was in matches that these guys either drew' date=' tied or won against those bowlers .... Please refer to post 643 to see overall performance[/quote'] Sure, I am just pointing that such a data is of no use which is matches drawn/tied/Won for analyzing batsmen. And secondly, SRT has only 6 innings in there. I do see post 643 to be partially informative. But the point to note is SRT did not necessarily fail to perform because he was not good enough. There could be any number of reasons why it happened. Most of the time SRT did not get out to them but due to some other bowlers or runout etc. It does not directly indicate his inability to bat against those bowlers. Also, it could have happened that SRT was not at his sublime best during those series when he played those matches. It is not fair to suggest that Lara or Waugh are better batsmen than SRT based on this stats. However, if you tell me SRT did not outperform Lara/Waugh in these matches but some kind of reverse thing happened, I do see the point. But overall given the great consistency, longevity and completeness, IMO SRT is certainly greater batsman than all his contemporaries!!! Link to comment
Ultimate_Game Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Performances in won/tied/drawn games against: * Warne and McGrath * Donald and Pollock * Wasim and Waqar Batsmen: * Lara - 58 (1222 runs in 21 innings) * Waugh - 50 (846 runs in 17 innings) * Anwar - 45 (407 runs in 9 innings) * Tendulkar - 35 (207 runs in 6 innings) I am not a SRT fanboy but these stats prove nothing about how good a batsman really is. Essentially what you are saying is that if a batsman failed in a lost cause he wouldn't be penalized for it, and conversely if a batsman scores big and the team still loses he would lose out. Considering the fact that generally it's bowlers/bowling attack which wins you games these stats will favor batsmen with a better bowling attack. As case in point I would like to mention SRT's 136 against A strong Paki attack of Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Mushtaq where he single-handedly took India close to victory where he lost out to bad back and not by the bowlers. It was one of the finest innings ever played - similar to Gavaskar's 96 against Pakistan in 86 where the next best score was 26 on a rank turner. With your selective stats those numbers will never make it to the final analysis which is extremely unfair. Link to comment
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