WC2011INDIA Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/07/25/the_super_lux_super_max HOLY ****. Seriously?? These guys have better lifestyle than us. So many amenities for such kind of people. Norway I am coming.
achilles Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Who is the journo? This article reeks of bias, given the tone of sarcasm it is riddled with. FP needs to refresh its journos. "LOL Just because a prison in another country allows its prisoners to have a flat screen TV we should kidnap him and punish him the right... I mean the American way? Now that makes a whole lot of sense". It sounds like you speak for all arrogant Americans who think everything we do is right or better than anywhere in the world." Seems like America bashing has caught up on FP too.
Anonymous Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/07/25/the_super_lux_super_max HOLY ****. Seriously?? These guys have better lifestyle than us. So many amenities for such kind of people. Norway I am coming. :WTF: Only consolation is bad food I presume because their cuisine sucks anyway
DomainK Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 If prisons were like that in India, people would commit crimes and surrender hoping to serve a long sentence. They will involve their families.
EnterTheVoid Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I've had my share of being crammed like sardines in match box sized dorms before. Not to mention being constantly spoiled for choice -- pick the toilet with the excrement all over it or the one with vomit. And these blokes get pampered in their prisons. Not fair goddammit.
Vijay.Sharma Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I think their guiding principles, as a society, are fine and laudable. This quote from the article - "In Norway, rehabilitation is the guiding principle, not punishment" sez it all. In fact rehabilitation is supposed to be the guiding principle of the justice systems in all civil societies including ours (Mariyam?). Everybody makes mistakes. Once a mistake is committed, the idea is to show the offender a better way of life rather than wasting his life in a prison. I am not arguing for all sorts of criminals...the psychopaths, terrorists kinds need not even be kept in a prison - just finish them (for ex, Qasab...why should you and I pay to keep that guy alive?). My argument is for the petty crimes...if a human being is deemed to be kept alive in spite of committing a "crime", why not teach him/her to become productive for the community and self? Putting such "criminals" in cells drives them into the crime world full time. I hope we make our prisons better. I remember watching Sanjay Dutt sharing his experience in some Leadership summit a few years back. He said the rules and regulations of the jail are so damn tough that there is no hope of repentance, instead it makes them bitter and vengeful. So when you see a decent guy who commits one mistake going into the jail, what you see when he comes out is a full fledged criminal. I think such humane prisons are especially important for juveniles. Also, I think there should be different prisons for different crimes. And very importantly there should be another age tier of prisons. An 18-25 yr old is still psychologically not a 'grown-up real world adult' no matter how much he may have grown physically. They need care and guidance and if given that we can salvage a life from rotting.
DomainK Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I think their guiding principles, as a society, are fine and laudable. This quote from the article - "In Norway, rehabilitation is the guiding principle, not punishment" sez it all. In fact rehabilitation is supposed to be the guiding principle of the justice systems in all civil societies including ours (Mariyam?). Everybody makes mistakes. Once a mistake is committed, the idea is to show the offender a better way of life rather than wasting his life in a prison. I am not arguing for all sorts of criminals...the psychopaths, terrorists kinds need not even be kept in a prison - just finish them (for ex, Qasab...why should you and I pay to keep that guy alive?). My argument is for the petty crimes...if a human being is deemed to be kept alive in spite of committing a "crime", why not teach him/her to become productive for the community and self? Putting such "criminals" in cells drives them into the crime world full time. I hope we make our prisons better. I remember watching Sanjay Dutt sharing his experience in some Leadership summit a few years back. He said the rules and regulations of the jail are so damn tough that there is no hope of repentance, instead it makes them bitter and vengeful. So when you see a decent guy who commits one mistake going into the jail, what you see when he comes out is a full fledged criminal. I think such humane prisons are especially important for juveniles. Also, I think there should be different prisons for different crimes. And very importantly there should be another age tier of prisons. An 18-25 yr old is still psychologically not a 'grown-up real world adult' no matter how much he may have grown physically. They need care and guidance and if given that we can salvage a life from rotting. I agree with it in parts. Jails are the biggest criminal manufacturers around the world. Usually young men commit smaller mischiefs, not necessarily highly criminal in nature, go to jail and graduate into full time criminals. Many countries have different kinds of jails for different kinds of crimes. They make sure not to mix the violent/professional criminals with the softer ones. Rehabilitation works well for them as well. May be one of the reasons why Norway has a very low crime rate?? Shows the success, doesn't it? However, one very important aspect of jails also is to work as a deterrent. It should be good enough to make a man do something criminal in cold blood. Take this shooter for instance. Was he worried about the consequences when he went out with that gun? Probably not much. Go out, shoot some people, get your face on prime time television around the world for a week. Satisfy your paranoid religious beliefs and spend 21 years watching movies in a luxury facility.
Alchemist Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I agree with it in parts. Jails are the biggest criminal manufacturers around the world. Usually young men commit smaller mischiefs, not necessarily highly criminal in nature, go to jail and graduate into full time criminals. Many countries have different kinds of jails for different kinds of crimes. They make sure not to mix the violent/professional criminals with the softer ones. Rehabilitation works well for them as well. May be one of the reasons why Norway has a very low crime rate?? Shows the success, doesn't it? However, one very important aspect of jails also is to work as a deterrent. It should be good enough to make a man do something criminal in cold blood. Take this shooter for instance. Was he worried about the consequences when he went out with that gun? Probably not much. Go out, shoot some people, get your face on prime time television around the world for a week. Satisfy your paranoid religious beliefs and spend 21 years watching movies in a luxury facility. Unfortunately, that is what KASAB is doing too. He is getting all the food served as well. I think we are good to criminals and atankwadis from other countries.
Vijay.Sharma Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 However' date=' one very important aspect of jails also is to work as a deterrent. It should be good enough to make a man do something criminal in cold blood. Take this shooter for instance. Was he worried about the consequences when he went out with that gun? Probably not much. Go out, shoot some people, get your face on prime time television around the world for a week. Satisfy your paranoid religious beliefs and spend 21 years watching movies in a luxury facility.[/quote']The same old emotions - love and fear, treat them with carrot or stick. What works better? The question we need to ask ourselves (and very honestly at that) is this, when was the last time you saw someone made to suffer without invoking either, a sense of pity for the "criminal" or contempt for the system that holds him there? If the criminal was someone you identified with (your family member, your mohallahwala, your caste/religion/country/color/..) then you may fight for him. Your fight will either be peaceful protest or violent retaliation. We need to understand this about our own species - human beings are capable of doing the worst things but we are incapable of ignoring cruelty when we witness it from a third person's perspective. It bothers us quite a lot and manifests in the form of various kinds of stress/release actions, one of them will be violent retaliation. As long as we witness cruelty to others, immaterial of how dirty a criminal he/she is/was, one of us will emerge to feed the vicious cycle. That's one of the reasons I feel if a crime is a big one, just finish the fellow. Quick and comfortable death is easily forgotten and usually does not give rise to new "martyrs". Besides it's not like we are facing an extinction crisis to hold on to each and every life...we are almost 7 billion cancer cells freely roaming on the planet killing the larger organism. As for deterrents for people like the guy who went around killing people without thinking of consequences...nothing can mitigate a human being's irrationality. Every one goes 'insane' momentarily more often than we'd like to believe (for example - like I did at PK and Outy when I was using the name Nirvanam. I regret it but can't undo it) but it doesn't manifest so violently...it is a trait that makes us human. Just think about it, if human beings are capable of blowing themselves up (death being the greatest deterrent) then what chance does a windowless tiny room have as a deterrent for such a human being? It may become a deterrent for him only if he experiences the solitary confinement which will never happen because he has already blown himself up. And even if it does, it does not change anything that he has already done. If he survives and is put in jail, it only increases the chances of him repeating the act as we agree that jails are the largest manufacturers of criminals and the best finishing schools for wannabe criminals.
Late Cut Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Funny how despite this rhetoric, Finland and Norway are considered two of the finest places to live.
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