wobblydoggy Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 You're not alone, Atherton/Vaughn/Giles among many others have voiced similar concerns in public, on the record in the media when England were struggling 2/3 years ago. Until now when this side is atop the rankings (and deservedly so), all those cracks are forgotten about. Well at least this way Ireland/SA have something to celebrate about too! :--D And that's pretty much my point. England fans think "their" team has reached the top of the test rankings. You don't think Morgan's Irish family/friends in Ireland and KP/Trott's family/friends/former coaches will be celebrating too in SA?? :hysterical: Your posts are ridiculous, why? Well for the following reasons: Trott had to play 7 years in England before he could be considered, where as if he had WANTED TO PLAY FOR SA he was immediately elligable. So why did he place his allegiance with England for 7 years, don't say $$$$ he may never have got picked. He made a choice on the fact that he did not like the SA system and he emmigrated as did KP So you are now saying that it is not right that people choose their country if they are feeling oppressed, like KP felt due to the selection system in SA? Get real and stop Whining, you got stuffed by England Full Stop!!!
Rightarmfast Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Reasons Hmm...Well, for a start, true English blood players are and have traditionally always been worse chokers than SA players have ever been ! :hysterical: And now for the serious reasons - 1) Their bowling is not as strong as it is being made out to be. I mentioned it earlier that while Tremlett , Swann and Mr Anderson were being made out to be India's nemesis ( And a certain Sir going to the extent of comparing Tremlett to Garner, Mcgrath and who not ) , these players did not rise to the occassion as was expected of them.And Swannie, England's supposedly answer to Warnie, well the less said the better of him. It was Broad who did the most damage. And Broad as we all know is too hot and cold. U cannot rely on him. His performance can be exact opposite in the next series and noone will even be surprised. When these bowlers come to subcontinent, they will be reduced to 25% of what they are in England. And nobody's going to take them seriously in SA, we all know that. 2)The batsmen are clicking now, but its not going to be the same always. Its just the law of the averages. Pretty soon a low is going to hit them. Even without that happening, English batters cant bat in the subcontinent for their life. And guess what, English team will be touring subcontinent pretty soon. You will see that whatever I have pointed out will be proved correct. Do not be surprised to see this happening :) England is a home bully, thats it...And that too , for the time being ! Aussie win was the best they could do . And that was a deteriorated Aussie team,btw... This Indian team was jaded and never looked a shadow of their ownself for even a minute. This nobody can deny. So effectively England still havent faced the real challenge. Maybe another day, another time, India would have beaten the same team , had all the players been playing. But we lost, I accept that ! But do not make too much of all this, because you are going to go down soon !!!
wobblydoggy Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Hmm...Well, for a start, true English blood players are and have traditionally always been worse chokers than SA players have ever been ! :hysterical: And now for the serious reasons - 1) Their bowling is not as strong as it is being made out to be. I mentioned it earlier that while Tremlett , Swann and Mr Anderson were being made out to be India's nemesis ( And a certain Sir going to the extent of comparing Tremlett to Garner, Mcgrath and who not ) , these players did not rise to the occassion as was expected of them.And Swannie, England's supposedly answer to Warnie, well the less said the better of him. It was Broad who did the most damage. And Broad as we all know is too hot and cold. U cannot rely on him. His performance can be exact opposite in the next series and noone will even be surprised. When these bowlers come to subcontinent, they will be reduced to 25% of what they are in England. And nobody's going to take them seriously in SA, we all know that. 2)The batsmen are clicking now, but its not going to be the same always. Its just the law of the averages. Pretty soon a low is going to hit them. Even without that happening, English batters cant bat in the subcontinent for their life. And guess what, English team will be touring subcontinent pretty soon. You will see that whatever I have pointed out will be proved correct. Do not be surprised to see this happening :) England is a home bully, thats it...And that too , for the time being ! Aussie win was the best they could do . And that was a deteriorated Aussie team,btw... This Indian team was jaded and never looked a shadow of their ownself for even a minute. This nobody can deny. So effectively England still havent faced the real challenge. Maybe another day, another time, India would have beaten the same team , had all the players been playing. But we lost, I accept that ! But do not make too much of all this, because you are going to go down soon !!! When we beat you at home in 2012 I will remind you of this silly post:winky:
Fontaine Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Your posts are ridiculous, why? Well for the following reasons: Trott had to play 7 years in England before he could be considered, where as if he had WANTED TO PLAY FOR SA he was immediately elligable. So why did he place his allegiance with England for 7 years, don't say $$$$ he may never have got picked. He made a choice on the fact that he did not like the SA system and he emmigrated as did KP Except none of that has anything to do with the point myself and Vaughn/Atherton have already made that they are not English, didn't grow up in England, didn't learn their cricket in England. Lots of people around the world work in countries other than their origin. You think Justin Langar is English just because he played county cricket for years?So you're pretty much wrong there. So you are now saying that it is not right that people choose their country if they are feeling oppressed, like KP felt due to the selection system in SA? Wrong again. I only just said this a few posts ago: I've already stated that the rules/regulations aren't in question. I'll completely state that a player passes the criteria for selection has that choice. Get real and stop Whining, you got stuffed by England Full Stop!!! And finally wrong again: I made this post (and others like it) more than a year ago way before this current series. http://www.indiancricketfans.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1108137 And what would we learn from England? How to poach foreign players like Morgan/Peterson etc? Or collapse like they did again in their last ODI once strauss got out. So yeah, you're wrong on all counts.
wobblydoggy Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Except none of that has anything to do with the point myself and Vaughn/Atherton have already made that they are not English, didn't grow up in England, didn't learn their cricket in England. So you're pretty much wrong there. Wrong again. I only just said this a few posts ago: I've already stated that the rules/regulations aren't in question. I'll completely state that a player passes the criteria for selection has that choice. And finally wrong again: I made this post (and others like it) more than a year ago way before this current series. http://www.indiancricketfans.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1108137 So yeah, you're wrong on all counts. So in your mind, Athertons and Vaughans, Immigration in Cricketing circles does not qualify a player to be English. I think that is total bull sh1t what greater complement could you pay a country than prefer to live there and play for them. My wife and I would prefer to live in France and will one day. It is a choice. So I think you are wrong, where as you feel you are right because of their birth staus. I feel I am right because they chose to be english rather than were just born here
Sachinism Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 There is something over here called the 'Tebbit Test' He was a fairly rightwing conservative who said the allegiance to our nation by immigrants could be fairly accurately measured by sitting in a crowd at a test match against India or pakistan. Personally having sat in many, I agree with him, very few immigrants or the children of immigrants from those two countries support Englan, the country thatr has given them a chance to thrive. It is very sad IMHO, but it is the way it is, so I agree with Swann Tebbit test is a racist test. Asians get questioned about who they support. Nobody says West Indians living in England should support England. Nobody says South Africans or Australians living here should support England
Fontaine Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 wobblydoggy, you're getting upset over nothing. No one is questioning your teams superiority. The current England side beat India far and square and deserve the top ranking. In the same way no one can question that Peterson/Trott/Morgan and others aren't English, didn't grow up/learn their cricket in England and most importantly don't call themselves English. A far more accurate description of this team would be a SA/Ireland/England XI.
wobblydoggy Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Tebbit test is a racist test. Asians get questioned about who they support. Nobody says West Indians living in England should support England. Nobody says South Africans or Australians living here should support England Who says no one questions their allegiance? I do. This is their home, surely they owe it their support. If our present government get their way conscription may be introduced. I will watch with interest to see what happens then
Fontaine Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 So in your mind, Athertons and Vaughans, Immigration in Cricketing circles does not qualify a player to be English. I think that is total bull sh1t what greater complement could you pay a country than prefer to live there and play for them. My wife and I would prefer to live in France and will one day. It is a choice. And good luck with that. Hope you enjoy it, but that doesn't make you French now does it? So I think you are wrong, where as you feel you are right because of their birth staus. I feel I am right because they chose to be english rather than were just born here Fair enough, except they didn't choose to be English. They chose to work in England and play for England to advance their careers/opportunities but they didn't choose to change their heritage/culture and identity. I mean, by your logic county cricketers like Danish Kaneria, Justin Langer, Imran Khan chose to be English just because they decided to live/work and in Imran's case marry in England.
wobblydoggy Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 wobblydoggy, you're getting upset over nothing. No one is questioning your teams superiority. The current England side beat India far and square and deserve the top ranking. In the same way no one can question that Peterson/Trott/Morgan and others aren't English, didn't grow up/learn their cricket in England and most importantly don't call themselves English. A far more accurate description of this team would be a SA/Ireland/England XI. Cr*p Some were of English lineage and some decided they wanted to live here, good enough for me. You were stuffed by England. And we will stuff you again in 2012 at home, I am sure you will 'Trott' out the same cr*p then too
wobblydoggy Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 And good luck with that. Hope you enjoy it, but that doesn't make you French now does it? Fair enough, except they didn't choose to be English. They chose to work in England and play for England to advance their careers/opportunities but they didn't choose to change their heritage/culture and identity. Rubbish, by emmigrating you choose to live by a host countries rules etc, to have your children there and for them to be fully English despite their former culture. I think that is a great sign of respect to a country
Rightarmfast Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 When we beat you at home in 2012 I will remind you of this silly post:winky: I look forward to the day. But perhaps u meant 3012 coz I dont see that happening in 2012. And plz do not have such delusions. Its only going to hurt you later. England will never in their lifetime win in India. :agree:
wobblydoggy Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 I look forward to the day. But perhaps u meant 3012 coz I dont see that happening in 2012. And plz do not have such delusions. Its only going to hurt you later. England will never in their lifetime win in India. :agree: We will see, at the beginning of this series I was told by virtually everyone on here of the vast superiority of the Indian Team. And we all know how that went don't we:hysterical:
Fontaine Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Rubbish, by emmigrating you choose to live by a host countries rules etc, to have your children there and for them to be fully English despite their former culture. I think that is a great sign of respect to a country No one is talking about children here. And you pretty much completely avoided (once again) the points I made about whether you would all of a sudden be "French" just because you choose to emmigrate there. Or whether Imran Khan/Kaneria/Langer chose to be English just because they spent/spend many years in England, playing cricket for England, etc. Anyways, no point really in debating this further. You're entitled to what you believe even though I've provided plenty of evidence from other sources and examples of other cricketers to the contrary. I guess we should all start believing Dennis Lillee CHOSE to be Indian because he's spent years and years in the MRF pace academy in India to support young Indian fast bowlers. In the same way Gary Kirsten chose to abandon being South African and be Indian because he chose to live in India with his family, represent India as their coach and work for Indian cricket.
Rightarmfast Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 What a lame post. Yeah, for a lame like u, thats what it will seem !
wobblydoggy Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 No one is talking about children here. And you pretty much completely avoided (once again) the points I made about whether you would all of a sudden be "French" just because you choose to emmigrate there. Or whether Imran Khan/Kaneria/Langer chose to be English just because they spent/spend many years in England, playing cricket for England, etc. Anyways, no point really in debating this further. You're entitled to what you believe even though I've provided plenty of evidence from other sources and examples of other cricketers to the contrary. I guess we should all start believing Dennis Lillee CHOSE to be Indian because he's spent years and years in the MRF pace academy in India to support young Indian fast bowlers. KP came here because he no longer felt SA values were his and that he was more in tune with his parents views which were English But you refuse to acknowledge that. Lets agree to differ. I look forward to 2012
Rightarmfast Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 We will see, at the beginning of this series I was told by virtually everyone on here of the vast superiority of the Indian Team. And we all know how that went don't we:hysterical: Yes, we will see ! We all know, without hiring players from aborad, England wouldnt have managed this win even at their home, dont we :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
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