Are today's brahmins the dalits of India?

[gator]

A presentation of disturbing truths, which almost everyone knows but not many care.... This reverse discrimination has driven brahmins either out of country or made many families extinct.... India has literally gone to the "pigs".... _____________________________________________________________ At a time when the Congress government wants to raise the quota for Other Backward Classes to 49.5 per cent in private and public sectors, nobody talks about the plight of the upper castes. The public image of the Brahmins, for instance, is that of an affluent, pampered class. But is it so today?

Doctors in arms

There are 50 Sulabh Shauchalayas (public toilets) in Delhi; all of them are cleaned and looked after by Brahmins (this very welcome public institution was started by a Brahmin). A far cry from the elitist image that Brahmins have! There are five to six Brahmins manning each Shauchalaya. They came to Delhi eight to ten years back looking for a source of income, as they were a minority in most of their villages, where Dalits are in majority (60 per cent to 65 per cent). In most villages in UP and Bihar, Dalits have a union which helps them secure jobs in villages.

At Ground Zero of the quota protests

Did you know that you also stumble upon a number of Brahmins working as coolies at Delhi's railway stations? One of them, Kripa Shankar Sharma, says while his daughter is doing her Bachelors in Science he is not sure if she will secure a job. "Dalits often have five to six kids, but they are confident of placing them easily and well," he says. As a result, the Dalit population is increasing in villages. He adds: "Dalits are provided with housing, even their pigs have spaces; whereas there is no provision for gaushalas (cowsheds) for the cows of the Brahmins."

The middle class deserves what it is getting

You also find Brahmin rickshaw pullers in Delhi. 50 per cent of Patel Nagar's rickshaw pullers are Brahmins who like their brethren have moved to the city looking for jobs for lack of employment opportunities and poor education in their villages. Even after toiling the whole day, Vijay Pratap and Sidharth Tiwari, two Brahmin rickshaw pullers, say they are hardly able to make ends meet. These men make about Rs 100 to Rs 150 on an average every day from which they pay a daily rent of Rs 25 for their rickshaws and Rs 500 to Rs 600 towards the rent of their rooms which is shared by 3 to 4 people or their families. Did you also know that most rickshaw pullers in Banaras are Brahmins?

Do our institutes connect with the real India?

This reverse discrimination is also found in bureaucracy and politics. Most of the intellectual Brahmin Tamil class has emigrated outside Tamil Nadu. Only 5 seats out of 600 in the combined UP and Bihar assembly are held by Brahmins -- the rest are in the hands of the Yadavs. 400,000 Brahmins of the Kashmir valley, the once respected Kashmiri Pandits, now live as refugees in their own country, sometimes in refugee camps in Jammu and Delhi in appalling conditions. But who gives a damn about them? Their vote bank is negligible. And this is not limited to the North alone. 75 per cent of domestic help and cooks in Andhra Pradesh are Brahmins. A study of the Brahmin community in a district in Andhra Pradesh (Brahmins of India by J Radhakrishna, published by Chugh Publications) reveals that today all purohits live below the poverty line. Eighty per cent of those surveyed stated that their poverty and traditional style of dress and hair (tuft) had made them the butt of ridicule. Financial constraints coupled with the existing system of reservations for the 'backward classes' prevented them from providing secular education to their children.

Who are the real Dalits of India?

In fact, according to this study there has been an overall decline in the number of Brahmin students. With the average income of Brahmins being less than that of non-Brahmins, a high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the intermediate level. In the 5 to 18 year age group, 44 per cent Brahmin students stopped education at the primary level and 36 per cent at the pre-matriculation level. The study also found that 55 per cent of all Brahmins lived below the poverty line -- below a per capita income of Rs 650 a month. Since 45 per cent of the total population of India is officially stated to be below the poverty line it follows that the percentage of destitute Brahmins is 10 per cent higher than the all-India figure. There is no reason to believe that the condition of Brahmins in other parts of the country is different. In this connection it would be revealing to quote the per capita income of various communities as stated by the Karnataka finance minister in the state assembly: Christians Rs 1,562, Vokkaligas Rs 914, Muslims Rs 794, Scheduled castes Rs 680, Scheduled Tribes Rs 577 and Brahmins Rs 537. Appalling poverty compels many Brahmins to migrate to towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins initially turned to government jobs and modern occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential policies for the non-Brahmins have forced Brahmins to retreat in these spheres as well.

Caste shouldn't overwrite merit

According to the Andhra Pradesh study, the largest percentage of Brahmins today are employed as domestic servants. The unemployment rate among them is as high as 75 per cent. Seventy percent of Brahmins are still relying on their hereditary vocation. There are hundreds of families that are surviving on just Rs 500 per month as priests in various temples (Department of Endowments statistics). Priests are under tremendous difficulty today, sometimes even forced to beg for alms for survival. There are innumerable instances in which Brahmin priests who spent a lifetime studying Vedas are being ridiculed and disrespected. At Tamil Nadu's Ranganathaswamy Temple, a priest's monthly salary is Rs 300 (Census Department studies) and a daily allowance of one measure of rice. The government staff at the same temple receive Rs 2,500 plus per month. But these facts have not modified the priests' reputation as 'haves' and as 'exploiters.' The destitution of Hindu priests has moved none, not even the parties known for Hindu sympathy. The tragedy of modern India is that the combined votes of Dalits/OBC and Muslims are enough for any government to be elected. The Congress quickly cashed in on it after Independence, but probably no other government than Sonia Gandhi's has gone so far in shamelessly dividing Indian society for garnering votes.

From the Indian Express: 'These measures will not achieve social justice'

The Indian government gives Rs 1,000 crores (Rs 10 billion) for salaries of imams in mosques and Rs 200 crores (Rs 2 billion) as Haj subsidies. But no such help is available to Brahmins and upper castes. As a result, not only the Brahmins, but also some of the other upper castes in the lower middle class are suffering in silence today, seeing the minorities slowly taking control of their majority.

How reservations fracture Hindu society

Anti-Brahminism originated in, and still prospers in anti-Hindu circles. It is particularly welcome among Marxists, missionaries, Muslims, separatists and Christian-backed Dalit movements of different hues. When they attack Brahmins, their target is unmistakably Hinduism. So the question has to be asked: are the Brahmins (and other upper castes) of yesterday becoming the Dalits of today? Francois Gautier

[beetle]

I don't think so.....they have had it good for so long and hence the changed scenario is a bit of a shock.Once they stop believing that they are a God sent superior group that they have been made to believe for so long....they will realise that they have to compete as equals ....not as a previlaged lot. When you compete with out the previlages that you had....then some people are going to lag behind.Unemployment is a problem for everyone...and a lot of people do have to settle for less than what they expected.It is true for everyone.....so no need to be shocked to see a brahmin coolie or domestic servant. And btw ...i am also one and I have seen the superiority complex that the last few generations suffered from.In a way this will bring them down to earth and that was can't be a bad thing . I personally am against quota on the caste basis......but do believe the sufferings of the uppercaste are self created.If they had not been the oppressors ...this day wouldn't have come.We do have our ancesters to blame for it.

[dial_100]

Wow... nice write up there Gator... While most of the fact look or sound true to me, it is very hard to comment on it particularly. Just like every dog has his day, Brahmins have to pay for what they did for decades. I am not trying to be harsh on them. It is sad but true state of brahmins today. One of my good friend couldn't eat 3-4 times in a month but the guy with half the qualification was able to make 6-7k back then in a govt job. Of all, i really feel bad about KPs more. But life on the earth keeps evolving and I am sure this will bring out something better.

[gator]

I don't think so.....they have had it good for so long and hence the changed scenario is a bit of a shock.Once they stop believing that they are a God sent superior group that they have been made to believe for so long....they will realise that they have to compete as equals ....not as a previlaged lot. When you compete with out the previlages that you had....then some people are going to lag behind.Unemployment is a problem for everyone...and a lot of people do have to settle for less than what they expected.It is true for everyone.....so no need to be shocked to see a brahmin coolie or domestic servant. And btw ...i am also one and I have seen the superiority complex that the last few generations suffered from.In a way this will bring them down to earth and that was can't be a bad thing . I personally am against quota on the caste basis......but do believe the sufferings of the uppercaste are self created.If they had not been the oppressors ...this day wouldn't have come.We do have our ancesters to blame for it.

if u really believe in historical retribution, why dont u go to the british and ask for ur wealth back... why dont u try punishing the muslim who looted, raped and p****ered the hindus for 400 yrs.... why are they still being given reservations and other special statuses..... u wont because they know how to deal with it.... the present day brahmins, on the other hand are silently suffering, whether people admit it or not...

[dial_100]

I agree Rads...everyone has faced it. The most conditioned community on the earth. They were real oppressor. And they didn't excuse other brahmins either. Now they are at the receiving end.

[beetle]

We are not talking history here gator...castism is a reality in rural India and also small towns.I am talking castism against the Scs.....not the so called backward classes. Do you know that people still keep seperate cups for giving tea to the servants...this happens in most houses in rural India and even in small towns. I come from a liberated background....but my own grandmother was shocked to see than i didn't keep seperate bartan for the servant.She created such a scene when I told her i would never stoop so low...finally I had to get some new bartan for her(grandmother not the servant ) or else she would have gone hungry.And this grandmother wouldn't accept that she was a castiest.She apparently practiced this for hygience purposes.This is still a reality for a large part of India. And how are the brahmins suffering more than the other non...quota castes. Why is the sufferings of brahmins so agonising ...why not the sufferings of rajputs or banias or the other non quota classes.You can find many from these castes also doing menial jobs....Why the attention only on thesufferings of brahmins.Do they have some kind of amnesty from suffering because of their caste.

[dial_100]

Gato....it is true that all those priest are not paid properly and all but that is also because lot of ritualism has slowly diminished. And there are less and less number of people pay priest for the rituals and dakshinas etc. Their main income were from performing pujas and getting dakshina which doesn't happen as much. Plus what is offered to them is no more a generous dakshina any more. In those old days, people used to offer lot for those days. In this economy, few hundred rupees are nothing to survive for a family. But real shame is that Imams get salary for what they do from our Gov. It should be more service offered voluntarily. I am sure Brahmins will learn from their mistakes and come over this sometime. But all this while few will suffer miserably.

[dial_100]

Right. Look at them as a whole. Why see them separately. There are many other caste who are equally suffering because of this. They are more or less in the same numbers as brahmins are so its overall than specific.

[beetle]

I agree that there should be salaries to the pujaris just like the Imams...What I don't agree is that the priest should be a brahmin.I would happily have a dalit perform puja at my home or at any mandir I go to.The pujaris have a special place in the community and that needs to be protected.

[Guest dada_rocks]

I don't think so.....they have had it good for so long and hence the changed scenario is a bit of a shock.Once they stop believing that they are a God sent superior group that they have been made to believe for so long....they will realise that they have to compete as equals ....not as a previlaged lot. When you compete with out the previlages that you had....then some people are going to lag behind.Unemployment is a problem for everyone...and a lot of people do have to settle for less than what they expected.It is true for everyone.....so no need to be shocked to see a brahmin coolie or domestic servant. And btw ...i am also one and I have seen the superiority complex that the last few generations suffered from.In a way this will bring them down to earth and that was can't be a bad thing . I personally am against quota on the caste basis......but do believe the sufferings of the uppercaste are self created.If they had not been the oppressors ...this day wouldn't have come.We do have our ancesters to blame for it.

U need to revisit the definition of competeing as equals. For starter 50% reservation makes sure nothing like that exists. Regarding their ancestor screwed it for them. Another misconceptiopn throughpout history 67% of ruling clan has been from OBC yadav empire gurjaar empire history is replete with them, u will be hard-pressed to find any brahmin roylaty. Even if one believes this fantassy, last time I checked reservation was not vendetta exercise. What's the crime of those hair-tuft donning brahmin purohits who were never rich they always were dependent on alms for subsistence and even today are.... One might ask why sud govt pay these temple purohits if they want better living they better do some creative work well point is well taken except that maulavi of every mosque gets govt salary; double standard in place. Anyway wind is changing. It's no coincidence that Maywati's dalits aligned with brahmins in UP. Social status aside in economic terms there is hardly anything to choose between them more or less similar number aporpos BPL exists even among dalits.

[CC1981]

Are today's brahmins the dalits of India?

No. Take that from someone from a Brahmin family and who grew up amongst/knows a lot of brahmins. They are still pretty 'large and in charge'. Just that there arnt that many Brahmins %-wise (what ? maybe 5% of India is brahmin?) and the 'gap in status/opportunities/social prefferential treatment' etc. is shortening rapidly...and they are concerned about their hegemony being broken. Thats all.

[beetle]

I am not justifying reservation dada....(although i do think for some SC and STs ....(only first time) there is justification) What I am saying that why only attention to the suffering of brahmins...why not other non quota people.....besides who says that the brahmin has to be a priest or a priest has to be a brahmin. If the brahmins won't survive as priests ...someone else will take theirplace.....the change hasalready started taking place. BTW...would you accept a well educated dalit as your pujari?Would you let him perform religious ceremonies at your home...?at your children's marriage?

[Guest dada_rocks]

I agree that there should be salaries to the pujaris just like the Imams...What I don't agree is that the priest should be a brahmin.I would happily have a dalit perform puja at my home or at any mandir I go to.The pujaris have a special place in the community and that needs to be protected.

There is no such ruling that only Brahmincould be a priest. Heck Laloo yadav when came to power started this fad and pretty soon found out it's next to imposible to find a dalit who is versesd in basic sanskrit. Now the way these pujari positions is honorary and more or less assures u BPL living I am sure laloojii or for that matetr any jee won't be able to popularize karmkand studies among any group. Those poor alms-dependent folks do it because it comes to them effortlessly. they get taught by their elders and thus it propagates. Before coming to his senses laloojee did follwing (1) de-recognising the sanskrit schools (2) pumped more money in mederassah And thus sealed his place as secular messiha. So basically by closing down those sankrit schools he shut door on possibility of finding any dalit versed in sanskrit education in any forseeable future. Hence I would say find me few cases where eligible dalits have not been allowed to be pujari anywhere otherwise we are just raising this topic for the heck of it.

[Guest dada_rocks]

No. Take that from someone from a Brahmin family and who grew up amongst/knows a lot of brahmins. They are still pretty 'large and in charge'. Just that there arnt that many Brahmins %-wise (what ? maybe 5% of India is brahmin?) and the 'gap in status/opportunities/social prefferential treatment' etc. is shortening rapidly...and they are concerned about their hegemony being broken. Thats all.

Yes take his anecodtal evidence those staggering numbers of 55% BPL much more than any OBC anywhere is just an eyewash. Anecdoctes must be given more weightage. bravo

[CC1981]

Yes take his anecodtal evidence those staggering numbers of 55% BPL much more than any OBC anywhere is just an eyewash. Anecdoctes must be given more weightage.

I have no idea wtf you are saying...wtf is BPL ? Below poverty-line ? That means squat and is a ridiculous definition. FYI, in India, you are BPL if you make LESS than 300 rupees/month. By that definition, my bartanwaali or driver doesnt live in poverty...yet they live in the CITY SLUMS! bakwaas definition,bakwaas points as usual...too much credence to the wrong thing...in India, apart from 15-20%, everyone is pretty flipping poor. Period. You aint a brahmin, perchance ?

[beetle]

There are schools that are teaching dalits ..... Besides...first we have to be ready for the change in our hearts.... Waisay do we know if our pujaris are educated enough . At my wedding ..my husband asked the pujari questions and he couldn't answer most and got upset at the questions.....(maybe because hubby is not brahmin:wink_smile:).And this panditji hasbeen marrying off most people in the family.

[CC1981]

Waisay do we know if our pujaris are educated enough .

What is enough ? Govt. of India defines 'educated' as in you can 'write your name'. Since almost every flipping pujaari HAS to read from the gita/slokas to do pujas (its humanely IMPOSSIBLE to remember 1 million+ slokas), it goes without saying that pujaris, in general, can read/write in atleast one language. So by govt. of India definition, pujaris are near 100% literate. If you mean matric-pass...then obviously not!

[beetle]

*ignore* Dada...by educated enough..i mean educated enough in your eyes...if they know enough to guide you ...or answer your questions about religion if you have any.How many of us really question our pujaris?

[beetle]

I do believe that anyone from the upper caste who doesn't accept the wrongs of their ancestors or feel bad about the beliefs of their ancestors towards dalits has no business talking of discrimination.

[CC1981]

I do believe that anyone from the upper caste who doesn't accept the wrongs of their ancestors or feel bad about the beliefs of their ancestors towards dalits has no business talking of discrimination.

Amen!