To those doubting how good our Test Side is

[rkt.india]

gillespie' date='mcgill were not poor by anymeans[/quote'] Mcgill was poor agaisnt goiod players of spin becasue he used to four ball every over. Gillespi was good b ut akela chana bhaad nahi fod sakta. I d ont rate that siereis draw too high. NO mcgrah, no brett Lee, no SHane warne. Also remember Brad Williams who too used bowl a four ball every over and release pressure.

[rkt.india]

As good as England have been, the true test will lie in how they play in the sub continent. The world cup showed the limitations of this English team. Even with better preparation and adequate rest, it's not going to be easy. And now that you are no 1, you will be expected to roll over Lanka and Pakistan. Less than series whitewash will see you lose points. The poressure of saving your number 1 rank in the heat and in conditions were ball would not bounce much and will not swing or seam is going to test your attack.

India will not be able to beat them in India right now and they may win. Their batting has real depth. we will struggle to take 20 wickets.

[CG]

India will not be able to beat them in India right now and they may win. Their batting has real depth. we will struggle to take 20 wickets.

India will beat them everyday of week in india if we prepare turners,we have an outstanding record at home, better than anybody in world cricket currently.if we have everybody fit we will win easily.

[CG]

Mcgill was poor agaisnt goiod players of spin becasue he used to four ball every over. Gillespi was good b ut akela chana bhaad nahi fod sakta. I d ont rate that siereis draw too high. NO mcgrah' date=' no brett Lee, no SHane warne. Also remember Brad Williams who too used bowl a four ball every over and release pressure.[/quote'] We hammered warne too,macgill did not do worse.Lee palyed in the series and so did bicheal and bracken who were both good at that time.it was a good effort to draw the series as they had full strength batting line up and were invinicble even with out 2 players.

[rkt.india]

We hammered warne too' date='macgill did not do worse.Lee palyed in the series and so did bicheal and bracken who were both good at that time.it was a good effort to draw the series as they had full strength batting line up and were invinicble even with out 2 players.[/quote'] Lee had just come back from injury and played in 4th test. We did not thrash Warne in Australia in 1999. He is a different bowler on Australian pitches where he gets more bounce. They did not have three main bowlers fit or playing. Mcgrath, Warne, and Brett Lee. Look at what fit Brett Lee did in 2007-08 test series. if you are comparing mcgill, bichel, and Williams to these three than that is sheer insult to these legends and Bracken less said is better. Bracken has never been a test bowler and only did well in ODIs. It was same attack in 1999, McGrath, Warne, and Lee which rattled Indian batsmen.

[rkt.india]

India will beat them everyday of week in india if we prepare turners' date='we have an outstanding record at home, better than anybody in world cricket currently.if we have everybody fit we will win easily.[/quote'] We dont have spinners to bowl on those turners and Swann alone will be enough for them.

[CG]

We dont have spinners to bowl on those turners and Swann alone will be enough for them.

Harbhajan at home is different,swann also darts the ball in and on turning tracks ojha,mishra,bhajji will be difficult particularly ojha as england have a lot of right handers and left arm spinners on turning tracks will be handy

[rkt.india]

Harbhajan at home is different' date='swann also darts the ball in and on turning tracks ojha,mishra,bhajji will be difficult particularly ojha as england have a lot of right handers and left arm spinners on turning tracks will be handy[/quote'] Swanan turns the ball a lot at pace and he has lot more revolutions than any Indian spinners. We saw how Bhajji did in WI where pitches had enough turn in them. Bhajji is past until he improves dramatically.

[CG]

Lee had just come back from injury and played in 4th test. We did not thrash Warne in Australia in 1999. He is a different bowler on Australian pitches where he gets more bounce. They did not have three main bowlers fit or playing. Mcgrath, Warne, and Brett Lee. Look at what fit Brett Lee did in 2007-08 test series. if you are comparing mcgill, bichel, and Williams to these three than that is sheer insult to these legends and Bracken less said is better. Bracken has never been a test bowler and only did well in ODIs. It was same attack in 1999, McGrath, Warne, and Lee which rattled Indian batsmen.

Lee was not a good test bowler then and he was not selected they prefered kaspa over him and bicheal was good then.

[CG]

Swanan turns the ball a lot at pace and he has lot more revolutions than any Indian spinners. We saw how Bhajji did in WI where pitches had enough turn in them. Bhajji is past until he improves dramatically.

. Nah, he was hammered when in first three tests as he throwed darts but when pitch helped him he got spin at pace that helped same with bhajji if he gets turners he will do better as he gets more bounce and do not forget bhajji did well is sa .

[Fontaine]

Swanan turns the ball a lot at pace and he has lot more revolutions than any Indian spinners. We saw how Bhajji did in WI where pitches had enough turn in them. Bhajji is past until he improves dramatically.

Yeah you're absolutely right. Swann really goes through his arm revolution very quickly, puts tremendous revolutions on the ball and still has very good control over where he wants it to pitch. You can tell he's done a lot of work on his shoulder/bowling action and he's getting the rewards. A great example of how it's never too late to hit the gym, work hard and put in effort to improve the basics. Wish our spinners would learn that.

[rkt.india]

Lee was not a good test bowler then and he was not selected they prefered kaspa over him and bicheal was good then.

When Lee was not a good bowler yaar. He debuted in 1999 against India and took 5-fer on debut. He was a nightmare for Indian batsmen all through the series. He did not play in 2004 India home series where he was struggling with injuries and form. In 2003 too, he was struggling with injuries when he made his come back. He was a regular member of Aus squad in test matches in tests if he was fit since 1999. He got injured after WC 2003 and could not fit before test series against India.

[Vijay.Sharma]

Probably a few points need to be made. Firstly, the 'win abroad' scenario. England haven't won abroad as no.1 yet, but then again, they haven't played abroad since they became no.1. However, they did win there last outing abroad, in Australia, never an easy task and somewhere where India have never won (since they started playing Tests). India haven't really been that stellar abroad as no.1, managing to win in WI & BD, but only managing a draw in SA & SL. I'd say India have not performed that well in alien conditions, at least not compared to Aus. I'd also like to pay attention to a couple of your 'what ifs'. Versus NZ, you claim India could have won more handsomely, rather than 1-0. It needs to be pointed out that NZ could've won the 1st Test of that series. I'd have that 3rd Test in SA failry evenly poised, time simply ran out for both sides

I never said India performed as well as Aus did abroad. I only said that India has performed well abroad and so has SA. And it has nothing to do with performance since being number 1. It has everything to do with performance leading upto and maintaining the number 1 position. India since 2007 WC have done very well all over the world as have SA. England needs to do that. And like I said they have already ticked off SA and Aus in their abroad section. Let's wait to see how they perform in SL and Ind. Again, not taking anything away from the fact that England are number 1 today. they damn deservedly are. The challenge is how long will they maintain it. Let's wait and see.

[express bowling]

I never said India performed as well as Aus did abroad. I only said that India has performed well abroad and so has SA. And it has nothing to do with performance since being number 1. It has everything to do with performance leading upto and maintaining the number 1 position. India since 2007 WC have done very well all over the world as have SA. England needs to do that. And like I said they have already ticked off SA and Aus in their abroad section. Let's wait to see how they perform in SL and Ind. Again, not taking anything away from the fact that England are number 1 today. they damn deservedly are. The challenge is how long will they maintain it. Let's wait and see.

Very well put. :two_thumbs_up: England is doing well now but whether this is because of 18 great months or there has been any systemic change for the better in English cricket, needs to be seen. The next few years will give us the answer. England has been mediocre to poor in the last 25 years or so. To get out of that they need a systemic change in their cricket which will not be proved just by 2/3 series wins ( excluding the Bangladesh type wins ).

[CG]

When Lee was not a good bowler yaar. He debuted in 1999 against India and took 5-fer on debut. He was a nightmare for Indian batsmen all through the series. He did not play in 2004 India home series where he was struggling with injuries and form. In 2003 too, he was struggling with injuries when he made his come back. He was a regular member of Aus squad in test matches in tests if he was fit since 1999. He got injured after WC 2003 and could not fit before test series against India.

He was not played by australia ,they had mcgrath,gillespie,kasperwic as first choice they did not play him in the eleven ,his average in test came down after 2006.

[rkt.india]

He was not played by australia ' date='they had mcgrath,gillespie,kasperwic as first choice they did not play him in the eleven ,his average in test came down after 2006.[/quote'] No, you are wrong. Kasper was not their first choice seamer ever. He mostly played when any of Mcgrath, Lee, and Gillespie were injured. Kasper only has 38 tests to his name and an average of 32. This was the only phase where Brett Lee had to sit out and that to because Lee was injured during that time and before and was not in his full flow.

[CG]

Yeah you're absolutely right. Swann really goes through his arm revolution very quickly, puts tremendous revolutions on the ball and still has very good control over where he wants it to pitch. You can tell he's done a lot of work on his shoulder/bowling action and he's getting the rewards. A great example of how it's never too late to hit the gym, work hard and put in effort to improve the basics. Wish our spinners would learn that.

Everybody has his own style and technique,swann too struggled on same pitches as indian spinners did and he was ineffective when the ball did not turn as he bowled far too quick mostly 90 km/h ,against srilankans also he was ineffective,he did well at oval when the ball started turning ,guys like ojha or mishra are different bowlers they depend on flight more,bhajji main weapon is bounce he gets.

[CG]

No, you are wrong. Kasper was not their first choice seamer ever. He mostly played when any of Mcgrath, Lee, and Gillespie were injured. Kasper only has 38 tests to his name and an average of 32. This was the only phase where Brett Lee had to sit out and that to because Lee was injured during that time and before and was not in his full flow.

He was preffered over lee in sub continent and rightly so as lee proved in effective in tests in subcontinent later also kasp a was prefered over lee in first test in ashes 2005 also and check lee average before 2006.

[rkt.india]

He was preffered over lee in sub continent and first test in ashes 2005 also and check lee average before 2006.

He was preferred because of his ability to cutters and incoming deliveries to Indian batsmen whicih was their plan to bowl straight and induce more clean bowleds and LBWs and Lee at that time was coming from injury in 2004-2005.

[CG]

He was preferred because of his ability to cutters and incoming deliveries to Indian batsmen whicih was their plan to bowl straight and induce more clean bowleds and LBWs and Lee at that time was coming from injury in 2004-2005.

Yes he was ,and rightly so as lee proved in effective in later tours of sub continent but point is the same attack did well against every team they were winning only india managed to draw the series.