nballa Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 eh? they had a fight and broke up. what does fecebook have to do with anything?
DomainK Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 On the other hand' date=' you can not even establish a definite causality correlation between her being dumped and her suicide - even if the suicide note says so in her own hand writing.[/quote'] There might be a correlation, especially if the reason is stated clearly in the suicide note. However, it can be argued that the dumping may not be the sole reason leading upto her suicide. Psychologists often claim that suicide mostly in a cumulative effect of many things from the past. The dumping might have triggered it, but may not be solely responsible for the suicide.
gaurav92 Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 eh? they had a fight and broke up. what does fecebook have to do with anything? Facebook has the evidence of their break up. Thats about it
DomainK Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Sorry, I lost you there. Defend what exactly? If the suicide note says " I'm killing myself because my boyfriend Mr.abc not only broke up with me, but also proudly declared it on FB" , Prima facie, the police are going to take that note seriously. Of course, they will ( or should) do their due diligence: check for other reasons- monetary or academic or personal, but this note, coupled with the testimony of her room mates who said she went to see her ex BF in Delhi doesn't leave much doubt that the primary reason for her suicide was the harsh break up. But this can in no way be construed as abetting suicide. That is all that should matter to the police and the public prosecutor. Tell me Mariyam, do the police take a permission from the public prosecutor's office before making an arrest like this? If that is the case, are they seriously going to prosecute the boy on basis of just the suicide note? Or is it all just a part of police investigation and the pp's office has no role in this at this stage?
akshayxyz Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Sorry, I lost you there. Defend what exactly? If the suicide note says " I'm killing myself because my boyfriend Mr.abc not only broke up with me, but also proudly declared it on FB" , Prima facie, the police are going to take that note seriously. Of course, they will ( or should) do their due diligence: check for other reasons- monetary or academic or personal, but this note, coupled with the testimony of her room mates who said she went to see her ex BF in Delhi doesn't leave much doubt that the primary reason for her suicide was the harsh break up. But this can in no way be construed as abetting suicide. That is all I meant.
DomainK Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Facebook has the evidence of their break up. Thats about it More than that, the facebook post probably plays a significant role in triggering the suicide. It was a public humiliation for her making it all the more difficult to deal with the emotional trauma. In fact, if he is taken to court, this point will probably be of high significance.
Mariyam Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 @ Nballa: Good point. They could have just said " a popular social networking site". You never hear papers mention that a killer used a Hettich Premium knife to kill his victim. :P Why mention brands here? General rule of thumb, when it comes to reporting murders/suicides. Name of the deceased is mentioned. Unless its a communally charged situation and mentioning the name could cause problems. Sometimes, if releasing the name could hinder a police investigation, they don't mention it. Age and occupation are mentioned. That is why IIM student and her age were mentioned. Cause of death is mentioned; Here she left behind a suicide note about her break up etc. Place of death is also mentioned. Certain articles of the Press Act of India do not permit personal information of the victim to be published: unless it is established to have a direct role in the murder/suicide or explicit permission is granted by the family members of the victim. This all of course, is just on paper ( no pun intended). In reality, the press take a lot of leeway while reporting.
bihutoli Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 I heard the police had booked the bf for abetting suicide. Wonderful. The only logical next step would be banning facebook as they are also complicit in the crime.
akshayxyz Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Not really. I just posted asking "how is it relavent?" and stopped at that. Didnt really move in that direction after that message. It was yoda who posted the following post and continued the discussion based on the assumption that her being a quota student was related to her suicide. After that it was you who carried it forward. My replies were only in response to those posts and never really to force a debate on the issue. So what did anyone say wrong? Some one posted additional fact ( not there in the news article), and some other one just said, it could have been related. No one attempted to stereotype quota students. Some people have opinion, it could/might have compounded to her state of mind. And I support that - yes that fact and perhaps many other seemingly non-related facts might have been related. That is it. Not sure what you are arguing about?
ganeshran Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 So what did anyone say wrong? Some one posted additional fact ( not there in the news article)' date=' and some other one just said, it [i']could have been related. No one attempted to stereotype quota students. Some people have opinion, it could/might have compounded to her state of mind. And I support that - yes that fact and perhaps many other seemingly non-related facts might have been related. That is it. Not sure what you are arguing about? I am not arguing. I am responding to the posts which suggest there might be a relation (yours and yodas) and stating that there is no information to suggest such a relation exists. That it is merely a conjecture which is made on the assumption that all quota students struggle academically and aren't able to cope with pressure.
Mariyam Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 That is all that should matter to the police and the public prosecutor. Tell me Mariyam' date=' do the police take a permission from the public prosecutor's office before making an arrest like this? If that is the case, are they seriously going to prosecute the boy on basis of just the suicide note? Or is it all just a part of police investigation and the pp's office has no role in this at this stage?[/quote'] The reason that the ex-BF has been booked is because the girl's father has complained. There have been cases ( dowry related) where suicide notes have been deemed sufficient to punish people. But a lot of that had to do with neighbour's feedback and other case specific details. As much as I'm sorry for this girl's father, for he must be completely devastated, and as much as I hate this ex-BF for being such an insensitive jerk and even gloating about it, its a stretch to charge him for abetting suicide. I'm no expert on such cases, but generally the way the judges reach a conclusion is, by asking the following question: Did what he do leave the victim with no alternative but to kill herself? Was there any other way in which it could be handled? Was it the first time that this had happened? In cases pertaining to dowry, the victim is generally abused by the in laws/ husband for a few months and commits suicide after a certain threshold level of tolerance has been breached. Here we don't know of any such thing.
akshayxyz Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 I am not arguing. I am responding to the posts which suggest there might be a relation(yours and yodas) and stating that there is no information to suggest such a relation exists. How else does one argue? I will ask again - what is wrong in saying it might have been related. Whatever I said, was based on years of personal experience in real world. I am sure yoda has similar opinion. That it is merely a conjecture which is made on the assumption that all quota students struggle academically and aren't able to cope with pressure. And nowhere did I claim this. As for first part "struggle academically" - it should be fairly easy to collect facts to support/deny that. At least in case of my alma-mater, I can easily recall from memory - for the duration of my stay.
akshayxyz Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 The reason that the ex-BF has been booked is because the girl's father has complained. There have been cases ( dowry related) where suicide notes have been deemed sufficient to punish people. But a lot of that had to do with neighbour's feedback and other case specific details. As much as I'm sorry for this girl's father, for he must be completely devastated, and as much as I hate this ex-BF for being such an insensitive jerk and even gloating about it, its a stretch to charge him for abetting suicide. I'm no expert on such cases, but generally the way the judges reach a conclusion is, by asking the following question: Did what he do leave the victim with no alternative but to kill herself? Was there any other way in which it could be handled? Was it the first time that this had happened? In cases pertaining to dowry, the victim is generally abused by the in laws/ husband for a few months and commits suicide after a certain threshold level of tolerance has been breached. Here we don't know of any such thing. Is the girl not being even more in-sensitive for holding ex-bf responsible for her life? If there was evidence of mental torture over a long term, then it can go against bf.. but here you can't say boy was more insensitive than the girl.
Mariyam Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Is the girl not being even more in-sensitive for holding ex-bf responsible for her life? If there was evidence of mental torture over a long term, then it can go against bf.. but here you can't say boy was more insensitive than the girl. The boy was gloating about the break up on FB. And she could see it, which means he probably wanted her to see it, i.e he didn't remove her from the friends list. Is that not being insensitive to her feelings? PS: I didn't say the boy is more insensitive. I said he is insensitive. The girl, IMO, was too sensitive, a little senseless and really hurt by the break up and the humiliation.
ganeshran Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 How else does one argue? I will ask again - what is wrong in saying it might have been related. Whatever I said, was based on years of personal experience in real world. I am sure yoda has similar opinion. When you connect her being a ST with academic struggle at college and saying it might have been related with her suicide, in the absence of any other information which suggests a connection, then it is a case of stereotyping SC/ST students. I am merely disagreeing with your point and stating that it is not necessarily true, especially in the case of an ex-infosys employee like the girl in question here.
akshayxyz Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 The boy was gloating about the break up on FB. And she could see it, which means he probably wanted her to see it, i.e he didn't remove her from the friends list. Is that not being insensitive to her feelings? PS: I didn't say the boy is more insensitive. I said he is insensitive. The girl, IMO, was too sensitive, a little senseless and really hurt by the break up and the humiliation. Of course bf was insensitive. I just asked, is the girl not being even more insensitive - telling all the world, that the ex-bf is responsible for her death? See the irony? It is the so called sensitive one who is more insensitive to other's feelings/life, especially when she has chosen to end hers. PS - yes you did not claim bf is more insensitive. I just added new angle, by asking/suggesting that.
akshayxyz Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 When you connect her being a ST with academic struggle at college and saying it might have been related with her suicide' date='[b'] in the absence of any other information which suggests a connection, then it is a case of stereotyping SC/ST students. You have to create something out of nothing? The quota information was never used in isolation....some connection does not mean only connection....many struggle, does not mean all struggle... and so on. Based on my experience - yes, SC/ST students are more likely to struggle at academics, there is a reason they get benefit of quota to enter in an merit based institution. And yes, it has nothing to do with ability to cope with pressure. All I said, if some one succeeds/excels at one front, it helps to alleviate the failures on other front. Also, excelling in one field is an indication that person mentally strong to focus energies to succeed in at least one front. I am merely disagreeing with your point and stating that it is not necessarily true, especially in the case of an ex-infosys employee like the girl in question here. Now are you suggesting that being from Infosys is some sort of gold standard?!!!
Sidhoni Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Sorry, I lost you there. Defend what exactly? If the suicide note says " I'm killing myself because my boyfriend Mr.abc not only broke up with me, but also proudly declared it on FB" , Prima facie, the police are going to take that note seriously. Of course, they will ( or should) do their due diligence: check for other reasons- monetary or academic or personal, but this note, coupled with the testimony of her room mates who said she went to see her ex BF in Delhi doesn't leave much doubt that the primary reason for her suicide was the harsh break up. But this can in no way be construed as abetting suicide. +1
Sachin=GOD Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 IMO the girl was just not mature enough to cope up with a break up and therefore took this extreme step - how/why should the b/f be blamed for this??
Sachin=GOD Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 I heard the police had booked the bf for abetting suicide. Wonderful. The only logical next step would be banning facebook as they are also complicit in the crime. :cantstop:
Recommended Posts