Dravid, Kumble fail to find place in dream team

[Guest dada_rocks]

sounds like geriatric ward hallucination of "mere jammane mein aisa hota tha waisa hota tha" kind of team

[CC1981]

To put Vinoo Mankad ahead of Vijay Merchant is ridiculous to say the least. Vijay Merchant is one of the greatest bats we produced and pound for pound for the best opener and that includes a certain Sunil Gavaskar. The difference between a Merchant and a Sunny of course is the sheer longevity the latter had. But is it Merchant's fault that he lost his best part of life to WWII? His First class record remains as second greatest of all times, second only to Don. His Test stats are highly impressive with average around 48 with no Not outs. Performed in India as well as abroad and remains the only player, as far as I can fathom, who scored in every series at a higher average than the previous one. There is no way Vinoo Mankad can overshadow Vijay Merchant. xxx

As i said- give me five excellent/great bowlers in the team without compromising the batting too much. You will find that Mankad's inclusion in the side is FAR better an option than including a specialist opener. But if you can come up with a better five bowlers + batsmen side, be my guest. Wht my side loses in picking a slightly inferior opener in Mankad, it more than makes up with the depth in the batting lineup ( all the way to #9) and variety in bowling lineup.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Please guys don't bother with amateur cricketers their records are big eyewash stick to pro era ...

[The Outsider]

As i said- give me five excellent/great bowlers in the team without compromising the batting too much. You will find that Mankad's inclusion in the side is FAR better an option than including a specialist opener. But if you can come up with a better five bowlers + batsmen side' date=' be my guest. Wht my side loses in picking a slightly inferior opener in Mankad, it more than makes up with the depth in the batting lineup ( all the way to #9) and variety in bowling lineup.[/quote'] How about the following lineup : Gavaskar Sehwag Dravid Tendulkar Azharuddin(home)/Amarnath(away) Mankad Kapil Kirmani Kumble Srinath Harbhajan(home)/Chandra(away)

[Lurker]

As i said- give me five excellent/great bowlers in the team without compromising the batting too much. You will find that Mankad's inclusion in the side is FAR better an option than including a specialist opener. But if you can come up with a better five bowlers + batsmen side' date= be my guest. Wht my side loses in picking a slightly inferior opener in Mankad, it more than makes up with the depth in the batting lineup ( all the way to #9) and variety in bowling lineup.

Here's one: Vijay Merchant Gavaskar Dravid SRT Mohinder Amarnath Kapil Dev Kirmani Amar Singh Srinath Gupte Bedi 5 batsmen, 1 all-rounder, 1 keeper who can bat, 2 pace bowlers who can bat decent, specially Amar Singh, 2 good spinners. I would personally go with 4 bowlers and 6 bats but since you asked I split 5-5-1(1 being keeper)

[CC1981]

Err no..i disagree with your lineup, Lurks. Kapil is not someone i'd have as #6- definitely not over a specialist bat. I knew that your answer would be to bump Kapil up but then we end up with 5 alltime/worldclass batsmen and one 'shaky' one in the top six. Clearly, it makes our top six especially weak. I'd have considered this option if we had an Adam Gillchrist or Kumara Sangakkara as a keeper but when #6 has 30 batting average & #7 is in high 20s, its a seriously deficient batting lineup. Thats like trading in a worldclass batsman for Flintoff's batting. In my instance, i compensate for this trade by elongating the batting lineup all the way to #9 - yours is seriously lacking in depth, mate. Swetabh- i like your batting XI better but i'd rather have GRV in the middle than Sehwag at the top. And i cannot find a place for Srinath or Kumble in it either. Sehwag and Mankad were both inconsistent batsmen- i cant accomodate them both. In an alltime lineup, it doesnt matter much if the opener can go on for a triple ton or 150- if he is inconsistent, i'd rather take the inconsistent opening allrounder than inconsistent pure-bat opener. You guys also fail to factor in the variety given by my bowling attack without compromising quality ( as long as quality is constant, variety = versatality on a wider range of pitches) : it has one slow left arm orthodox bowler, one fastish leggie, one pure offie and two medium pacers who can move the ball both ways and keep it tight. And as long as Mankad's name is in the mix, Bedi cannot qualify IMO...he is a slightly better SLA than Mankad (who IMO is in the top 3-4 SLA bowlers ever) but Mankad brings in about zillion times better batting to the fore. Its like excluding Hadlee in an alltime lineup for McGrath. Sorry but it doesnt fly IMO.

[Lurker]

Err no..i disagree with your lineup, Lurks. Kapil is not someone i'd have as #6- definitely not over a specialist bat. I knew that your answer would be to bump Kapil up but then we end up with 5 alltime/worldclass batsmen and one 'shaky' one in the top six. Clearly, it makes our top six especially weak. I'd have considered this option if we had an Adam Gillchrist or Kumara Sangakkara as a keeper but when #6 has 30 batting average & #7 is in high 20s, its a seriously deficient batting lineup. Thats like trading in a worldclass batsman for Flintoff's batting. In my instance, i compensate for this trade by elongating the batting lineup all the way to #9 - yours is seriously lacking in depth, mate. Swetabh- i like your batting XI better but i'd rather have GRV in the middle than Sehwag at the top. And i cannot find a place for Srinath or Kumble in it either. Sehwag and Mankad were both inconsistent batsmen- i cant accomodate them both. In an alltime lineup, it doesnt matter much if the opener can go on for a triple ton or 150- if he is inconsistent, i'd rather take the inconsistent opening allrounder than inconsistent pure-bat opener.

Like I said I did it because of whole 5-5-1 approach. As it is my team has Kapil, Amar Singh, Srinath, Gupte, Bedi 5 players who can be selected purely as bowlers. Anytime you do such an act it is going to weaken the side. If you accomodate Mankad in there somewhere it is merely an overkill. I mean you already have 2 good spinners(Gupte/Prasanna) with peeps like Tendulkar capable of acting as 3rd spinner(which you would not need anyway). And Mankad as a batsman is certainly not as good as Merchant is. So you weaken your batting and don't exactly boost your bowling. I may consider Mankad as opener if there is only 1 spinner in the team, then you can play an extra bat. But when you have two spinners then Mankad as an opener? No. xx

[CC1981]

Anytime you do such an act it is going to weaken the side.

Except by having Mankad as an opener and having Kapil bat at #7, followed by Kiri and Ladkhabhai...that is the only way IMO to have your cake and eat it too. Try to look at it this way - I am not trading in Sehwag for a Mankad or rejecting Merchant for a Mankad- i am essentially swapping Sehwag/Merchant for a Mankad AND GRV. And do i think that Mankad + GRV outweighs Sehwag or Merchant with the bat ? most definitely so! And no, its NOT an overkill to have 5 bowlers. As i said, your this alltime team is gonna face other alltime teams. Almost every single alltime team will have atleast 5 worldclass bowlers in their midst. Atleast, everyone apart from NZ & SL will have it so. Having only 4 genuine bowlers is a serious misjudgement when comming against an alltime batting lineup- if so much as ONE bowler has a bad day, you are fracked....down to a 3 man bowling attack, which would get overworked and lose potency as match progresses due to fatigue. 5 bowlers is not an overkill, it is an absolute necessity when facing other alltime great teams with 5 supreme bowlers in the fray.

[theguyinallblue]

Not surprisingly..no one is complaining about Saurabh chandidad Ganguly.. :hysterical::hysterical: i can see the pain on some one's face..she has already emptied 8-9 packets of beedi in frustration... and this b****er is not a news at all somewhere..:wink_smile: hahahahha....just thought to rub salt on the wound....

[Sooda]

Some VERY random selections in those ex cricks all time teams- Desai?? Nayudu?? even Umrigar- good batsman that he was - was a bit of an FTB...Desai decent medium pacer at best- Karsan Ghavri anyone... ?? Can you blieve Kirmani has selected Mushtaq Ali over Dravid. Nutter. I know Ali was a fine attacking batsman on his day- but AFAIK that day came like once in 10 tests plus CC1981...Srinaths gotta be there. Gavaskar Sehwag Dravid SRT Hazare Mankad Kapil Kirmani Srinath Bedi Chandra/Kumble depending on whether its home or oseas Only draw back is 2 Slow left armers... I know Amar Singh was really highly rated by those who faced him but to select him based on the 7 or so tests he played and not Sri who performed so admirably -carrying the Indian attack away from home for all those years- is a bit harsh You do make a good case for Opening with Mankad and not Viru...

[CC1981]

plus CC1981...Srinaths gotta be there.

Nah, disagree. Srinath bowled like a retard too often. Simply no excuse for him to keep bowling short pitched pies in Australia when pitching it full got wickets. He was an average bowler at best and i'd rather have Ladkhabhai- even if an amatuer era player. Amar Singh brings valuable batting to the lineup too, which serves the dual purpose of balancing the side & giving it a long tail. Even if Sri were to be a slightly better bowler, i'd include Amar Singh. India's bowling, even though is worldclass, doesnt quite matchup to an alltime WI/Aussie/Pak/RSA/English attack...so we have to compensate more in the batting regard too...this is where the 'better batter wins' IMO rather than with Waggy & Mankad. The only problem i have with your batting lineup is that Vishy must be in the mix too. He was our ultimate rescue-man and a batsman like that, who scored most of his 100s & 50s with the side in trouble is worth his weight in gold. This intangiable cannot be overlooked, particularly since Indian batting lineup can be brittle sometimes. And for that to happen, Mankad has to open. IMO, Mankad's spot should be opening- he averaged 41 as an opener and played some superb knocks against some superb bowling as an opener, clearly demonstrating his mettle. And i cannot include Bedi either. Reason is simple - he is a SLA and he has to take a seat because Mankad offers much more overall value and is an SLA too. Mankad and Bedi cannot play together because they are both SLAs. Plus consider this- there WILL be a leggie in the mix- whether Gupte, Kumble or Chandra doesnt matter- but i have never seen an alltime India XI without one of these 3 present. Now that means we have 3 spinners, all of who's stock ball goes from left to right for a right-handed batsman. This is too monotonous and easier to get accustomed to than having an offie in the mix. And none better than Prasanna for this job. So someone's gotto make way for Prasanna..and it has to be Bedi. I'd go for Chandra-Prasanna-Mankad trio because it is a worldclass trio for spin and all three are different types of bowlers too. Prasanna a great offie, Mankad a classic SLA and Chandra a fastish leggie. Batsmen are faced with a barrage of varied bowling from three spinners who all had excellent control & guile.

[Sachin_Rulez]

How about the following lineup : Gavaskar Sehwag Dravid Tendulkar Azharuddin(home)/Amarnath(away) Mankad Kapil Kirmani Kumble Srinath Harbhajan(home)/Chandra(away)

I don't even put azhar/amarnath above VVS. I'm surprised that no one even mentioned VVS name here. Arguably played the greatest innings ever by an Indian batsman and easily considered to be one among the all-time top 3 or 5 knocks, I'd surely have him in this team at the expense of azhar or amarnath. His 281 is more than or equivalent to Azhar's/Amarnath's top 3 test innings.

[CC1981]

SR, VVS IMO loses out to Hazare & Vishy in my format. He is sure to find a berth ( along with Kumble, Srinath & Sehwag) in the India alltime 'A' team. This would be my alltime India 'A' team: V.Sehwag V.Merchant M.Amarnath V.Manjrekar VVS. Laxman C.K.Nayudu* B.Kunderan + A.Kumble J.Srinath B.Bedi M.Nissar 12th Man : S.Durrani

[Kartikey]

Hahahaha, no Rahul and no Kumble. Two of the finest cricketers the world has seen and these oldies dont put them in, hahaha.

[prince40]

azhar over dravid?? hahaha oh dear....

[amits]

no virender sehwag in any of the teams :x

[CSK Fan]

Methinks just like the oldies are guilty of over-rating their own, we also hype certain players because we have seen them play ourselves and they are good for this era. I dont even understand how you can compare stats across eras when the conditions, rules, pitch, balls, everything was dramatically different. How can we pass judgements on players we have not even seen in action. If it was left to us we probably would have picked up the current 11 as the all time best. After all Vijay Hazare is best known for being in a humorous dialogue in Amitabh Bachan's film, nyet?