Sachin v/s Lax for Carnish

[Sachin=GOD]

Never said that - can you let me know where I brought in match result as a criteria?

generally innings where the team lost are not even considered - 136 at chennai, 114 at perth etc are prime examples.

[The Outsider]

generally innings where the team lost are not even considered - 136 at chennai' date=' 114 at perth etc are prime examples.[/quote'] I can't answer for "generally" because I don't consider match result as a criteria for deciding an innings' greatness. Maybe you should address your question to "generally".

[Andrew Peter]

Since strength of the opposition bowlers are not taken in to consideration while judging the greatness this must be one of the greatest test innings ever played no? http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64048.html

Wow Hayden >>>>>>>>>> Laxman

[The Outsider]

Since strength of the opposition bowlers are not taken in to consideration while judging the greatness this must be one of the greatest test innings ever played no? http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64048.html

You are proving my point. On that pitch even the crappy Indian bowlers were able to dismiss South Africa twice for less than 350 runs. That itself should knock some perspective on Laxman's innings played against a superior attack on the same pitch and yet outscored even the South Africans by miles.

[SachDan]

Lads and Gents, let's accept it. Hayden is God and I'm proud that greatest test innings was played at a venue which is a stone's throw away from where I'm at the moment B-> http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64002.html

[The Outsider]

Lads and Gents, let's accept it. Hayden is God and I'm proud that greatest test innings was played at a venue which is a stone's throw away from where I'm at the moment B-> http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64002.html

And why is that not a great test innings? It's rated as one of the best by many specially given the heat and conditions it was scored in. But, it probably won't fit your criteria since it wasn't played by Goddy.

[Sachin=GOD]

And why is that not a great test innings? It's rated as one of the best by many specially given the heat and conditions it was scored in. But' date= it probably won't fit your criteria since it wasn't played by Goddy.

and it most will fit your only criteria, i.e. it wasn't played by Goddy.

[pensionplan]

What's the harm in accepting that VVS is a better 2nd innings batsman than Sachin? Sachin has himself played some amazing knocks in the 2nd innings but VVS has perhaps surpassed him especially after his effort sin the last 12-18 months. Doesn't take anything away from Sachin's greatness and adds to the aura of VVS.

Exactly.

[SachDan]

And why is that not a great test innings? It's rated as one of the best by many specially given the heat and conditions it was scored in. But' date=' it probably won't fit your criteria since it wasn't played by Goddy.[/quote'] C'mon shwetabh..just a good innings, nothing less nothing more. That innings is used as reference only to mock Pak's batting..how he alone scored more runs in a single inning than combined efforts of pakis in both innings :haha:

[The Outsider]

Here is another innings considered by many to be one the best ever played : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63557.html Notice how Gooch stands heads and shoulders above everyone else in the match in difficult batting conditions facing an attack of Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh, and Patterson. But it's "absurd" because Tendulkar has never done anything similar.

[pensionplan]

I dont think anyone has said Sachin's 136 is not a great knock.Did they? Bit what's absurd is some one eyed Sachin fans cant simply see the difference in quality of the Laxman's 281 or 96 with Sachin's 136.Not all great innings are of the same quality.U know it isnt absurd to acknoledge that Laxman have played knock of higher quality than sachin. And what better way is there to measure the greatness of a quality knock by measuring how other players fared on the same pitch?

I think Outsider has beaten this one to death on various threads on why that 96 can be argued to be the 2nd best knock to be played by an Indian(outside of 281). No matter how many scorecards one scans it will be awfully tough to find a 90+ knock to be the highest in the match for a team that won to be followed by the second best score not to even cross 40 from both sides combined. Shows how much the track had in it for the pace bowlers in Durban and anyone who saw that game knows that by even keeping Steyn aside for a second the rest of the pacers from either side looked menacing that on ordinary tracks do not hold a candle to Steyn.

[The Outsider]

C'mon shwetabh..just a good innings' date=' nothing less nothing more. That innings is used as reference only to mock Pak's batting..how he alone scored more runs in a single inning than combined efforts of pakis in both innings :haha:[/quote'] Hayden himself rates it as one of the best he has played. Cricinfo has it among the top 5 innings of Hayden : http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/379851.html Was also nominated among the best innings of the year : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/133244.html Dileep has the following to say on the innings : http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/132748.html

[pensionplan]

Here is another innings considered by many to be one the best ever played : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63557.html Notice how Gooch stands heads and shoulders above everyone else in the match in difficult batting conditions facing an attack of Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh, and Patterson. But it's "absurd" because Tendulkar has never done anything similar.

Wow. Even in that test one can see Richards, Richardson, Smith all crossed fifties comfortably though to me that score of 153* against such an attack by Gooch got to be one of the best ever in a winning cause and one more amazing thing there is Gooch carried his bat through the innings. Impressive.

[Sachin=GOD]

Hayden himself rates it as one of the best he has played. Cricinfo has it among the top 5 innings of Hayden : http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/379851.html Was also nominated among the best innings of the year : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/133244.html

and the 136 at chennai and 114 at perth are rated by most cricketers/experts/magazines and Goddy himself as two of his best innings so according to this criteria both should be included.

[ganeshran]

Hayden himself rates it as one of the best he has played. Cricinfo has it among the top 5 innings of Hayden : http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/379851.html Was also nominated among the best innings of the year : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/133244.html Dileep has the following to say on the innings : http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/132748.html

Do you rate Hayden's innings higher than Lara's 153?

[The Outsider]

Do you rate Hayden's innings higher than Lara's 153?

I haven't watched Hayden's innings but from what I've read the pitch was pretty flat and the main challenge was the heat. Also, Lara batted with the tail for a long time and Hayden did not have any scoreboard pressure because Pakistan were bowled out for nothing in the first innings.

[The Outsider]

and the 136 at chennai and 114 at perth are rated by most cricketers/experts/magazines and Goddy himself as two of his best innings so according to this criteria both should be included.

Both are great innings, just not as great as 281 or 96.

[ganeshran]

I haven't watched Hayden's innings but from what I've read the pitch was pretty flat and the main challenge was the heat. Also' date=' Lara batted with the tail for a long time and Hayden did not have any scoreboard pressure because Pakistan were bowled out for nothing in the first innings.[/quote'] So head and shoulders over others is not the only criteria to define the quality of an innings? There are other variables involved?

[Gambit]

If I were to go by ICF without watching TV, it would seem that Tendulkar is the worst thing to happen to Indian cricket. Thankfully, my Tata Sky still works.

[The Outsider]

So head and shoulders over others is not the only criteria to define the quality of an innings? There are other variables involved?

Where did I say it was the only criteria? But yeah, it's definitely an important criteria and is used by many as one criteria to rank an innings.