Guest dada_rocks Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 The danger of deep religosity Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is not known for public displays of either human emotion or political dexterity - the reasons why he survives in his job. Consequently, in deviating from a dreary script to complain about a sleepless night worrying about the troubled parents of a terror suspect, he wasn't falling back on spontaneity. Nor was he trying to be too clever arousing the motherly instincts of women journalists who had been invited to high-tea. Manmohan's apparent insomnia is an affliction of convenience. It is aimed at reassuring the angst-ridden brotherhood that India wasn't going to walk that extra mile to help Prime Minister Gordon Brown confront the jihad in Britain. The Prime Minister didn't lose sleep over those youngsters at a club in London's Haymarket who escaped being fire-bombed because a syringe failed to work; he didn't lose sleep over those Scots who were traumatised by the suicide attack on Glasgow airport. Whether it is 250 people being blown apart in Mumbai last year, farmers committing suicide because they couldn't pay off loans, and the institution of the presidency facing disrepute because of a colossal political misjudgment, the Prime Minister has never lost sleep. He is the living personification of Alfred E Neumann - unfazed, untroubled and, when expedient, unaware. The shocking revelation that the Glasgow bomber was a Bangalore-bred, professional Muslim from a well-heeled family and holding an Indian passport has punctured many self-serving myths. First, it has destroyed the bogus theory that Indian democracy is permanent firewall against Islamist extremism. "No Indian has ever been a part of Al Qaeda" was a boast that every second politician was fond of repeating at international fora. Now there is evidence that links Indian Muslims to the network of global terror. Second, Kafeel Ahmed was no neo-literate member of the underclass who took to terror because previous governments had not made provisions for Muslim quotas. He was well-off and well educated. Third, the bomber was not someone socially crippled by the supposed "alienation" of Asians in Britain. He did not fit the stereotype of the maladjusted, British-born Asian Muslim from the North of England who embraced radical Islamism as a form of social protest. Kafeel and his brother, from all accounts, couldn't give a damn about the multicultural hiccups of British society. Like Dhiren Barot, the Gujarati convert to Islam who wanted to bomb nightclubs in London because they were frequented by "slags", the Ahmeds insulated themselves from their environment and retreated into a mental ghetto. Finally, the initial evidence points to a disturbing phenomenon: Deep religiosity as the base on which subsequent political extremism rests. The media has reported the attachment of the Ahmeds to an austere version of Sunni Islam which is popular throughout South Asia. Other studies suggest a correlation between terrorism and those Muslims who are already conditioned by regressive religious currents. In other words, terrorism stems from sustained propaganda and an insidious variety of religious evangelism. The most important lesson for India to emerge from Glasgow is that our political and security establishments are living in denial. We have heard Manmohan Singh, Shivraj Patil and countless secularists bore us to tears over terrorists having no religion. We have heard with surprise the Prime Minister almost pleading to the West to typecast Indians with Pakistanis - and both as terrorists. At the same time, the lived experience points to terrorists not only possessing faith but having a rather enhanced sense of it. Experience also tells us that the stereotyping of all Indians as potential terrorists is, ironically, being egged on by Indian secularists and British multiculturalists who are seeing their pet theories of victimhood being exposed as humbug. Kafeel Ahmed was about as much a victim of injustice as the middle-class Egyptian Mohammed Atta was. Both became suicide bombers out of a fanatical commitment to an ideology of conquest and hegemony. It is that ideology Britain is targeting and which India has to target. If this involves also pumping Manmohan Singh with sedatives, we shouldn't run away from the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguyinallblue Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 indian Muslims will have to shift their loyalty towards India first before Islam ... just like other indians have no business about what happening in israel or Iraq or iran..they should too just shut their eyes and ears.. they should bear this in mind that by siding with non-indian muslims...they are putting the lives of their family members and rest of the community in danger back lash on other indian because of some fundoo brainwashed muslims will not go easy with some political parties...and they can be far reached repercussions than we can imagine... now imagine what will happen to the family members of this terrorist.... they will be humiliated at every step of their life..who knows his family might commit mass suicide... not only have they brought a bad name to their family but to their country as well..and have put the lives and career of their fellow countrymen..in danger just because of some $hitty jehad.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 indian Muslims will have to shift their loyalty towards India first before Islam ... just like other indians have no business about what happening in israel or Iraq or iran..they should too just shut their eyes and ears.. they should bear this in mind that by siding with non-indian muslims...they are putting the lives of their family members and rest of the community in danger back lash on other indian because of some fundoo brainwashed muslims will not go easy with some political parties...and they can be far reached repercussions than we can imagine... now imagine what will happen to the family members of this terrorist.... they will be humiliated at every step of their life..who knows his family might commit mass suicide... not only have they brought a bad name to their family but to their country as well..and have put the lives and career of their fellow countrymen..in danger just because of some $hitty jehad.. i resent statements such as that. what have you or i as being born to hindu parents done to assert our patriotic allegiances? i oppose any statement that claims that one must be patriotic to a country, especially if the country is being anything but loyal to them. india has a long history of isolating people within our own borders. our own very mismanagement lead to the Kashmir crisis (yes, it was ignited by the farcical elections of 1984-1985 and then when the flames were lit, our neighbors tossed in more fuel, but we lit the flames), just as much as our isolation of the Sikhs lead to the entire Khalistan movement which was eventually curbed by one of the most atrocious and mind boggling demonstration of totalitarianism, and today we are entangled in problems such as the Maoists, and other socialist insurgencies protesting our complete failure in providing economic assistance to vital parts of the nation. please abstain from such statements. these misguided youths were not anti india, they were anti foreign policy of tony blair. and that translated into being anti western. while i certainly am not condoning the actions of the two extremists, a long look in the mirror is needed. these two had it all, and then they threw it all away. its alarming that inspite of a secular and scientific education, one can still be victim to the forces of fundamentalism. and that begs the question, "what could we have done to prevent this?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 This article is such utter drivel, it's painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 This article is such utter drivel' date=' it's painful.[/quote'] i concur. the actions of two asswipes cannot warrant a scrutiny of millions. and yeah, two asswipes does not mean we have a "major terrorist threat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 i concur. the actions of two asswipes cannot warrant a scrutiny of millions. and yeah' date=' two asswipes does not mean we have a "major terrorist threat".[/quote'] After every bombing be it javeri bazaar or mumbai train or samhauata express i heare the same tripe that just one or two .. god knows how long head in sand syndrome will continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 This article is such utter drivel' date=' it's painful.[/quote'] U won't get it anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 i resent statements such as that. what have you or i as being born to hindu parents done to assert our patriotic allegiances? i oppose any statement that claims that one must be patriotic to a country, especially if the country is being anything but loyal to them. india has a long history of isolating people within our own borders. our own very mismanagement lead to the Kashmir crisis (yes, it was ignited by the farcical elections of 1984-1985 and then when the flames were lit, our neighbors tossed in more fuel, but we lit the flames), just as much as our isolation of the Sikhs lead to the entire Khalistan movement which was eventually curbed by one of the most atrocious and mind boggling demonstration of totalitarianism, and today we are entangled in problems such as the Maoists, and other socialist insurgencies protesting our complete failure in providing economic assistance to vital parts of the nation. please abstain from such statements. these misguided youths were not anti india, they were anti foreign policy of tony blair. and that translated into being anti western. while i certainly am not condoning the actions of the two extremists, a long look in the mirror is needed. these two had it all, and then they threw it all away. its alarming that inspite of a secular and scientific education, one can still be victim to the forces of fundamentalism. and that begs the question, "what could we have done to prevent this?" As a hindu have not worked or demanded division of India in past or in present. If u have doubt they have done it let me know I have data on referendum on the division of country ready. Farcical election is not just Kahmir's owes , congressi have orchestarted that in many other states and I don't see them blowing things up asking for separation. Isloation of sikh lead to khalistan... I wud say there could not be bigger tripe theory than this. Just let me know on which count they were isolated. Punjab was one of the most propsperous state when it happened wonder where they got isolated. Anyway I don't buy there was any popular support for khalistan in punjab in first place, just fringe elements doing pakistan's bidding that's all. Now maoist problem anyone who has lived in that part including me will tell you is a caste-war fanned by political expediency . There most certainy are poor in India but poverty is distributed across every caste and the naxal war is being fought across caste lines as opposed to the logical rich and poor lines it should have followed if at all it's genesis is in have and have-not divide.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Swapan Dasgupta your hero, eh DR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Swapan Dasgupta your hero' date=' eh DR?[/quote'] No wonder. Swapan Dasgupta is a right wing-hawk ! I have seen him on TV. He is the one who has bored me to tears with his monologues. And like all other Right-wing hawks , DR seems to be completely oblivious of the "other side of the story" many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dr manmohan singh is the prime minister of a secular country...but he more often than not acts like a minority 's prime minister. His sleepless nights for suspected terrorist's family is an insult to the to the victims of terrorism in this country.And his request of not typecasting Pakistanis and Indians...and there by putting these two people in the same category is again shocking . While pakistanis come from a country which is the father of international terrorism ...Indians come from country which has been the biggest and the longest victim of terrorism. How dare this man compare us to the country that has been bleeding us for decades.Shameless !I feel so insulted and so betrayed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 THX wrote>>>>>i resent statements such as that. what have you or i as being born to hindu parents done to assert our patriotic allegiances? How often have you seen hindus killing or even blaming Indian muslims for the victimisation of hindus in Islamic nation.How often do even the most radical hindus blow up trains or market places because of atrocities against hindus in other countries. How often have hindus shown greater interest in the welfare of hindus outside India than India itself. >>>>>>THX wrote...i oppose any statement that claims that one must be patriotic to a country, especially if the country is being anything but loyal to them. india has a long history of isolating people within our own borders. our own very mismanagement lead to the Kashmir crisis (yes, it was ignited by the farcical elections of 1984-1985 and then when the flames were lit, our neighbors tossed in more fuel, but we lit the flames), So one election in Kashmir in India's long history was fudged.That I guess is good enough to start a terrorist campaign against the country... Do you know how many elections have been not really honest in bihar and UP .May be not the whole election ...but these states have a long history of electoral malpractices (more in the past than present)but do you see people take up arms against the govt like this(and I am not talking about commy fundos here ) >>>>>THX wrote just as much as our isolation of the Sikhs lead to the entire Khalistan movement which was eventually curbed by one of the most atrocious and mind boggling demonstration of totalitarianism, and today we are entangled in problems such as the Maoists, and other socialist insurgencies protesting our complete failure in providing economic assistance to vital parts of the nation. Sikhs have always been one of themost well represented communities in all spheres of life.They have also been one of the most well off. The Khalistan movement was a misadventure started by some thinking they had a chance of making punjab into Canada if they could get away from the rest of India.Just that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Good posts radhs. Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dr manmohan singh is the prime minister of a secular country...but he more often than not acts like a minority 's prime minister. His sleepless nights for suspected terrorist's family is an insult to the to the victims of terrorism in this country.And his request of not typecasting Pakistanis and Indians...and there by putting these two people in the same category is again shocking . While pakistanis come from a country which is the father of international terrorism ...Indians come from country which has been the biggest and the longest victim of terrorism. How dare this man compare us to the country that has been bleeding us for decades.Shameless !I feel so insulted and so betrayed! Precisely.. I mean come on if u are so maudlin that you burst into tears then the expression to that effect should have come when 100's got blown into pieces in Mumbai not when some chump is under custody for his deeds and his family is worried, who knows they might have been in the know of what their son was doing all along. But no during those events he puts the face of stateman who delivers rationed angst; suddenly on this incident he loses sleep. Where is the sense of proportion Mr puppet-Pm sir. I believe an economist of your stature should be knowing a thing or two about proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 No wonder. Swapan Dasgupta is a right wing-hawk ! I have seen him on TV. He is the one who has bored me to tears with his monologues. And like all other Right-wing hawks , DR seems to be completely oblivious of the "other side of the story" many times. How about presenting the other side of story as opposed to this attempt of attacking the commentator. If u have any gripe factual or deductional with the article please throw some light. Ad-hominems won't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 How about presenting the other side of story as opposed to this attempt of attacking the commentator. If u have any gripe factual or deductional with the article please throw some light. Ad-hominems won't do. The problem with right-wing hawks and fundie hindoos is not that they are categorically dabbling in lies- its just that they have selective history-itis and completely ludicrous extrapolations and jumps in logic to justify their hatred. Swapan Dasgupta is merely trying to intellectualise his hatred...which is always a losing cause ethically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 How about presenting the other side of story as opposed to this attempt of attacking the commentator. If u have any gripe factual or deductional with the article please throw some light. Ad-hominems won't do. DR, Make no mistake , i have no intention of abusing anyone here. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect. I do feel you are a right wing hawk. Now there is nothing derogatory about it. And i also claimed you are oblivious to so many things because of the way you tried to put as though palestinians' life has gotten better because of the occupation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 See what am i or what swapan dasgupta is can make u or anyone else feel better but that certainly is not a credible argument against any point raised in article by any stretch of imgaintion.. Yes palestionaina or for that matter whole israel/arab regions'li standard of living has gone better since 48 and this betterment is way above average than the improvement in standarf of living in neighbouring arab nations so credit where it's due. Forget that try answering refutng supporting points made in this article it has nothing to do palestian let us not fudge thigns in name of debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Yes palestionaina or for that matter whole israel/arab regions'li standard of living has gone better since 48 and this betterment is way above average than the improvement in standarf of living in neighbouring arab nations so credit where it's due. Palestininian standard of living is NOT higher than that of Lebanon,jordan,Syria,Saudi or Egypt. it is a categoric LIE to claim so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Put it this way gaza golan west bank everything was rank useless piece of desert land while under arab occupation today it's anything but ..... Ditto whole israel was useless piece of sparsely populated land today it;s anything but.. yes no arab country can match that with or without oil.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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