If Sir Donald Bradman was born an Indian

[mishra]

I am sorry, I did not understand your question there. If you are talking about the overall rankings, I agree with the Wisden's assessment of rating Murali as the greatest bowler, but I wouldn't quibble if anyone rates another great bowler as the best given that the difference between Murali and second best wasn't as huge IIRC.

Compare achievements of Murali to Warne. Now you compare ATG rankings of Murali to warne.

[CSK Fan]

LOL at the study. The two are ranked very tightly together, despite the study not accounting for the difference in number of matches. Tendulkar has played thrice as many matches for heaven's sake. This study must be the best one however. Countless others that put Bradman are top are nothing but statistical jugglery. :ohmy:

actually the studies you allude to, all place him on top in terms of domination of his peer. And there is no doubt that he dominated his peers like no sportsman did. But the studies do not in any way include anything to show that he is an all-time great

[mishra]

@Ankit Just to explain my feeling..... Till early this year, ESPN legend video and ranking was heavily marketed in tv media. It was same Richie Benaud and co who were entrusted with making the picks.... Below is the list....I think everyone here have seen few episodes of them. Murali didnt feature in Top 50 list.... 1. Don Bradman 2. Gary Sobers 3. Viv Richards 4. Shane Warne 5. Jack Hobbs 6. Dennis Lillee 7. Sachin Tendulkar 8. Imran Khan 9. Wally Hammond 10. Sunny Gavaskar 11. Ian Botham 12. Richards Hadlee 13. Keith Miller 14. W.G. Grace 15. Graeme Pollock 16. Malcolm Marshall 17. Greg Chappell 18. George Headley 19. Frank Worrell 20. Len Hutton 21. Wasim Akram 22. Kapil Dev 23. Steve Waugh 24. Barry Richards 25. Allan Border

[8ankitj]

@mishragreat - I know about that. I don't know what you want me to respond to though.

[mishra]

I want Justification of the absolute nature of their picks with the view of Murali fact. Just Because some writter wrote 1920 was golden era of cricket doesnt mean it is...... No one wrote about Tesla doesn't mean that I have to blindly believe Edison is greatest inventor of his time....

[8ankitj]

I want Justification of the absolute nature of their picks with the view of Murali fact. Just Because some writter wrote 1920 was golden era of cricket doesnt mean it is...... No one wrote about Tesla doesn't mean that I have to blindly believe Edison is greatest inventor of his time....

Who am I to justify someone else's pick? As far as Murali's omission is concerned, that may be partly explained by the fact that the list was created in 2000. Murali hadn't achieved the greatness that went on to achieve in the next decade. Murali was in the shortlist of 100 though. And I am not agreeing with everything in every list. What's your point, seriously?

[mishra]

Who am I to justify someone else's pick? As far as Murali's omission is concerned, that may be partly explained by the fact that the list was created in 2000. Murali hadn't achieved the greatness that went on to achieve in the next decade. Murali was in the shortlist of 100 though. And I am not agreeing with everything in every list. What's your point, seriously?

Exactly.. Because it cant be justified even within realms of your stats. We all knew what was Murali in 2000 compared to warne.... List being made in 2000 is no logic at all..... Someone who introduced something and mastered to art of bowling has way more contribution to someone who just mastered existing.

[8ankitj]

Exactly.. Because it cant be justified even within realms of your stats. We all knew what was Murali in 2000 compared to warne.... List being made in 2000 is no logic at all..... Someone who introduced something and mastered to art of bowling has way more contribution to someone who just mastered existing.

I don't get your point.

[ganeshran]

As a card carrying member of the fanatics club, I'll say not. You can't win by you contrived arguments, there's no jury. You've already lost in numbers - we Sachinistas are good at proselytizing. ; - ) Happy forumming!

:haha::haha: /thread

[mishra]

I don't get your point.

LOL Didnt you said two contradictory things in your previous post.. Who are you to justify... and then a lame attempt to justify.... Then u realized it cant be justified.... You used something as evidence to build up your argument, I pointed out why evidence can be discredited...

[mishra]

nothing

[pensionplan]

As a card carrying member of the fanatics club, I'll say not. You can't win by you contrived arguments, there's no jury. You've already lost in numbers - we Sachinistas are good at proselytizing. ; - ) Happy forumming!

How so? Bradman average 100, Sobers average 58, Tendulkar 54(Minnow adjusted). So how did I lose in numbers.

[The Outsider]

But here problem is' date=' if you take that 99.94 thing out then all you are left with are those video clippings of Bradman which Bossbhai keeps posting on any given, and not given, opportunity and those clippings don't to anything to corroborate the argument of Bradman being greatest ever. Okay, you also have some eye witness account from country of Brdaman or country that ruled Bradman's country. They do have credibility with respect to Bradman's position in that era but not when you compare him with today's era.[/quote'] Oh man, not that crappy video clips argument again! Can you even make out the ball clearly in most of the clips, forget about seeing any movement, spin etc. Here is Kapil bowling in a crappy video : 0X3j9Sp2keM Here is the same Kapil bowling in a decent video at around the same time in his career : tts2C2CTIe4 If you didn't have the second video, Kapil looks nothing more than a club level bowler going on the first video. Do you agree? So, people who watched loads and loads of cricket have credibility only when it comes to describing Bradman, but not when describing or comparing him with Sobers a few years later? Look it's not even a stretch. If you don't belong to the completely crazy category, you won't have a problem accepting that Sobers would have done just as well today as he did in his time because he has actually played and performed against the likes of Lillee, Willis etc. Sobers started his career only a few years after Bradman retired.

[The Outsider]

Mishraji, look up Murali's numbers till 2000 - 220 wickets at an average of 27. And what "introduced something" are you talking about, chucking? Because, if it's the doosra it was introduced by Saqlain.

[bulbul]

How so? Bradman average 100' date=' Sobers average 58, Tendulkar 54(Minnow adjusted). So how did I lose in numbers.[/quote'] he is talking about Number of supporters not Cricket stats...even Justin beiber have lot of supporters compare to Bob dylon..

[mishra]

Mishraji' date=' look up Murali's numbers till 2000 - 220 wickets at an average of 27. And what "introduced something" are you talking about, chucking? Because, if it's the doosra it was introduced by Saqlain.[/quote'] My argument was relative to Warne. Complete list got too many chickens

[bulbul]

Can you tell that sports has a competitive element which leaves a little bit of room to argue/speculate about "who's better" but no such space exists in arts and music. It's about preference there. Do you work at NIMHANS or admitted there?

:giggle: why so angry its just a landmark...i stay somewhere nearby..

[CG]

Oh man, not that crappy video clips argument again! Can you even make out the ball clearly in most of the clips, forget about seeing any movement, spin etc. Here is Kapil bowling in a crappy video : 0X3j9Sp2keM Here is the same Kapil bowling in a decent video at around the same time in his career : tts2C2CTIe4 If you didn't have the second video, Kapil looks nothing more than a club level bowler going on the first video. Do you agree? So, people who watched loads and loads of cricket have credibility only when it comes to describing Bradman, but not when describing or comparing him with Sobers a few years later? Look it's not even a stretch. If you don't belong to the completely crazy category, you won't have a problem accepting that Sobers would have done just as well today as he did in his time because he has actually played and performed against the likes of Lillee, Willis etc. Sobers started his career only a few years after Bradman retired.

Actually we have some decent videos of bradman,sobers time better than kapils first video you have shown anyway which is amateurish.All this discussion is futile fan exercise going on for years with no conclusion.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[The Outsider]

My argument was relative to Warne. Complete list got too many chickens

Yeah, Warne had 350+ wickets at 25 at the same stage. Bloody biased goras!