Vacation over - Bose.

[Dhondy]

Stop right now.

[kumble_rocks]

So you are telling me that i am out of place to question a guy's grasp of English when the guy thinks that the following statement : replace 125kph with turning the ball and you get kumble means ' kumble bowled at 125kph' ????!?

Without getting into specifics , I fail to understand why is it necessary for you to drum your viewpoint onto others. Just a skim read of this thread tells me that no matter what you post now, gator is not going to change his viewpoint. So why bother ? Stating your viewpoint once or twice is enough. No point in getting so worked up that yourself or him resorts to name calling such that the thread becomes abusive .

[dial_100]

Gosh!! Finally I clicked on the last page to reach the end of this thread. STOP showing off your cricketing knowledge yaar. Lets say CC and partially Sriram are wrong in supporting Bose. Agreed that he bowls at 120. Now tell us who is that magic guy who can bowl at 140+ who should have been picked up in his place... ooops.... not 140 but 128 or 132 at the most. If you can justify that he was a wrong selection, lets here the right one. And let see how his selection will justify. Leave that kid alone until he fails. Many have come and gone, then why be after this guy before he plays in first the game??

[Predator_05]

Gosh!! Finally I clicked on the last page to reach the end of this thread. STOP showing off your cricketing knowledge yaar. Lets say CC and partially Sriram are wrong in supporting Bose. Agreed that he bowls at 120. Now tell us who is that magic guy who can bowl at 140+ who should have been picked up in his place... ooops.... not 140 but 128 or 132 at the most. If you can justify that he was a wrong selection, lets here the right one. And let see how his selection will justify. Leave that kid alone until he fails. Many have come and gone, then why be after this guy before he plays in first the game??

I don't think anyone is right or wrong as of yet. I don't rate Bose at all BTW, but i do think that he got in on merit and deserves a few chances. Many people here don't expect him to do well, and for good reason - we've seen plenty of bowlers like him before - the kind who put up the right numbers in first class cricket - they have all come and gone without doing anything special. It's just a gut feeling of theirs, and they are entitled to express it. Oh, and i could care less what speed he bowls at. Bear in mind that cannon-fodder is always cannon-fodder - regardless of whether you bowl it at 80 mph or 95 mph. Pathan is a slow-poke as well, but i still rate him very highly because he can make the ball talk (well he could before...).

[CC1981]

Without getting into specifics ' date=' I fail to understand why is it necessary for you to drum your viewpoint onto others. Just a skim read of this thread tells me that no matter what you post now, gator is not going to change his viewpoint. So why bother ? Stating your viewpoint once or twice is enough. No point in getting so worked up that yourself or him resorts to name calling such that the thread becomes abusive .[/quote'] This will be my last post on that matter- i realize what you are trying to do but what you are trying to pass off as a viewpoint is not a viewpoint- it is simply a failure of comprehension in English. Viewpoint indicates that there is no empiric benchmark and thus an opinion- sorry but there is no opinion in English grammar - if you bollox up a sentence or comprehension, you've bolloxed up. Period. Aint no amount of viewpoint or shifting goalposts will bail you out of that one.

[Ram]

I just read through the last series of posts in the thread. Its REALLY saddening to see some outstanding intellectual content being sullied by personal attacks and name calling. The trend of confrontation between CC on one side and Gator/Yoda/BB/ on the other has been going on for some time now. I dunno for how long this is can go on. For the fear of giving the impression as though I am advising people who are much more wiser than me in age and experience, i refrain from saying anything personal. The ONLY thing i want to say is - All this bickering is terrible for ICF. When someone new comes into the forum and glances through the posts , all he would see is infighting and name calling. I am sure that would scare him away. Without even realizing , the forum is being harmed. And if its of use any use to anybody , As someone who has been a diligent poster for the last 6 months, I would like share my viewpoint on how i see ICF. I am not here to prove i am better or worse than anybody. It doesnt serve me any purpose, even if i prove my intelligence here. I am here to discuss cricket , share ideas and thoughts. And i dont expect everything said by everybody to make cricketing or real life logic. Nobody is correct all the time. So to all -- Let peace prevail ! :present:

[Predator_05]

I don't think anyone is right or wrong as of yet. I don't rate Bose at all BTW, but i do think that he got in on merit and deserves a few chances. Many people here don't expect him to do well, and for good reason - we've seen plenty of bowlers like him before - the kind who put up the right numbers in first class cricket - they have all come and gone without doing anything special. It's just a gut feeling of theirs, and they are entitled to express it.

Just to expand on that point of mine, I'll say this - the best bowlers India have produced in the last 2 decades all had very limited domestic experience. Prabhakar had almost none, Srinath had only a season worth of experience, Ajit Agarkar had almost none, Zaheer Khan had none, Irfan Pathan had none. Now compare these guys with the domestic kings - Prashant Vaidya, T. Kumaran, Ganesh, Mhambrey, Pandey, Wassan, Siddiqui. They all played for India - and despite having top notch domestic records, they all turned out to be worthless. I could come up with a similar list of batsmen. That is why you treat domestic records with a pinch of salt. It's not like they haven't gotten a fair crack of the whip - they have. What domestic stats don't show is a players' ability to hack it at the highest level. That is why i am a supporter of the policy which sees players being picked on talent, rather than 10 years worth of domestic experience. The latter never produces results - at least in India, it doesn't.

[CC1981]

he best bowlers India have produced in the last 2 decades all had very limited domestic experience.

And amongst that 'best' lot, only one turned out to be worh his salt (Kumble) while another (Bhajji) showed up for a few yrs atleast. and none of India's any other bowler - or any pacer produced by India- is good enough to walk into any of the top 6-7 teams on merit alone in the last 20 yrs. That shows the fundamental flaw in our system when we go by 'talunt' rather than performance. How often has India given debut to a 30 yr old Hussey type or kaspa's second comming in his 30s ? Next to none in the last 20 yrs...That is as categoric a proof as any that our system of 'picking on talunt' is a hopelessly lost cause. Most of our fans, just like our selectors, are clueless to the fact that you CANNOT have a competent FC system until the selectors make it very clear that FC performance will be the rule of thumb for getting in the test team, instead of fast-tracking people based on some arbitary 'talunt', puff up their egos and think that they've 'arrived' when they take a 4-fer or a 5-fer and then proceed to go downhill. Our domestic players lack the incentive to better themselves- when they KNOW that their domestic performance counts for squat and it is the 'talunt' or sifaarish that will get you in the team- our FC team bosses know this too, so they have no incentive of improving the pitches/outfields and promoting good cricket at FC level- because ultimately, since India doesnt pick its international team with any domestic yardstick, the bottomline is that everyone knows that domestic cricket is irrelevant in India. That which has been made irrelevant will never simply stand up and become worldclass simply out of desire. We fail to see that our age-old ( decades old or hell, more than half a century old) practice of picking players for their 'talunt' than their domestic performance is the biggest reason why Indian domestic cricket is a joke. And until we start showing consistency in our selection based on FC merit, our FC system will never improve and produce class players...we'd have to be content with 2-3 greats, 1-2 decents and 6-7 hopeless ones in the team.

[Predator_05]

How often has India given debut to a 30 yr old Hussey type or kaspa's second comming in his 30s ? Next to none in the last 20 yrs...

Really ? Kuruvilla, Dahiya, Saba Karim, Khurasiya, Rathore, Jai Prakash Yadav, Sanjay Bangar and many others played their first games for India when they were in their late 20's and early 30's. They came in based on their exploits in domestic cricket. How many of them had successful careers ?

We fail to see that our age-old ( decades old or hell' date=' more than half a century old) practice of picking players for their 'talunt' than their domestic performance is the biggest reason why Indian domestic cricket is a joke..[/quote'] ...but i've already given you MANY examples of players who were unstoppable at domestic level, but turned out to be DUDS at international level. Doesn't that tell you something ?

[yoda]

I have said this before, enthusiasm is a life enriching quality that stimulates others, and whatever CC's little idiosyncracies, he has enthusiasm in plenty. I have already said how well he writes. If you don't want to participate in debates with him, that's fine, but this kind of unprovoked putdown is sad to see.

debate where he claims people should not express their opinions on the thread about wessels wanting to be the new coach or the one in general section where he mocked rads teaching qualifications or .... i know you love the guy to death, but beware that he AND you are also turning a lot of posters off including me.

[CC1981]

Doesn't that tell you something ?

yes, it tells us that Indian domestic crikcet sucks..and it will continue to suck until the national selectors take responsibility and start selecting on merit. You name names but you miss the point- this isnt laws of physics or gravity we talking about...there are exception cases to every rule. Just like how providing a handful of Aussies who got fast tracked due to special circumstances doesnt change the fact that CA picks its test team on the basis of domestic performance in the majority of cases, providing a few trinket names where Indians got picked on their domestic prowess doesnt change the fact that India picks its team based on arbitary 'talunt' and 'sifaarish' factor in majority of cases.

[CC1981]

the one in general section where he mocked rads teaching qualifications

i wonder why you wernt honest enough to point out that Rads started the barb-throwing, not me in there. If you cant take it, dont dish out any. And if you do dish out, take back what you get. Is that concept non-existant in your book of self-respect ?

[Predator_05]

yes, it tells us that Indian domestic crikcet sucks..and it will continue to suck until the national selectors take responsibility and start selecting on merit. providing a few trinket names where Indians got picked on their domestic prowess doesnt change the fact that India picks its team based on arbitary 'talunt' and 'sifaarish' factor in majority of cases.

Few trinket names ? LMFAO. Those are just a few i could name by MEMORY. There have been plenty of failures who were domestic kings and couldn't hack it at international cricket. So if domestic cricket sucks (like you said), why should we give so much importance to players' performances there when it comes to selecting an XI ? You seem to be contradicting yourself. Here is a fact for you to ponder; the selectors have ALWAYS picked players on merit, but sh*tty competitions breed sh*tty players. Hence why most of them turned out to be duds. The standard of domestic cricket in India will continue to suck no matter how many domestic kings they pick for India.

[yoda]

i wonder why you wernt honest enough to point out that Rads started the barb-throwing, not me in there. If you cant take it, dont dish out any. And if you do dish out, take back what you get. Is that concept non-existant in your book of self-respect ?

***bla bla bla*** she asks why do people post in a topic they are not interested in and you started jumping on her english skills and how you are glad she is not an english teacher. do we even know what your day job is? you could be a pimp for all i care. i really need a "ignore user" button. may be varun can create one for us like he did to avoid the irritant at the other site.

[The Outsider]

Guys, put a lid on it. Let's get on with trashing Bose shall we?:tounge_smile:

[theguyinallblue]

CC1981... i like your posts..and appreciate your all round knowledge on various things... but try to maintain a cordial environment while debating on a topic... this appeal is to others as well... BTW..CC..can you change the photo in your avatar.... put a nice looking face there..:tounge_smile:

[Ram]

***bla bla bla*** she asks why do people post in a topic they are not interested in and you started jumping on her english skills and how you are glad she is not an english teacher. do we even know what your day job is? you could be a pimp for all i care. i really need a "ignore user" button. may be varun can create one for us like he did to avoid the irritant at the other site.

Yoda and CC ! Dont you realize all this finger pointing is only making matters worse ! If someone doesnt like the way someone else is , please ignore ( as you had pointed out). Comon guys ! Just let go of these silly fights!

[CC1981]

So if domestic cricket sucks (like you said), why should we give so much importance to players' performances there when it comes to selecting an XI ?

Because if we don't, domestic cricket will never stop sucking..and unless domestic cricket stops sucking, we will never produce a consistent worldbeating team.

the selectors have ALWAYS picked players on merit,

not in India.

[Ram]

CC1981... i like your posts..and appreciate your all round knowledge on various things... but try to maintain a cordial environment while debating on a topic... this appeal is to others as well... BTW..CC..can you change the photo in your avatar.... put a nice looking face there..:tounge_smile:

The problem with CC is , it doesnt take much to provoke him , and because his english is a bit ...err... too suave, it seems as though he is always mocking at people. And he doesnt help his own cause by his insistence on correctness of the language used in the posts.

[Predator_05]

Because if we don't' date=' domestic cricket will never stop sucking..and unless domestic cricket stops sucking, we will never produce a consistent worldbeating team.[/quote'] Dude, how many names of failed domestic kings do you want to me give you ? The ones i gave you already were the BEST Indian domestic cricket had to offer at the time, and they STILL failed. So you want to see more of these sh*tty players representing India ? More Jai P Yadav's, more Rathores ? That is exactly what you will get if you pick players from domestic cricket. If you think JP Yadavs and Rathores will do better than Yuvraj Singhs and Agarkars, than there is no point in continuing this little debate of ours... You seem to be under the impression that only a handful of Indian cricketers were picked because of their performances in domestic cricket, while the majority were picked on talent. Thats is completely WRONG - it has always been the other way around. Selectors pick players based on how they do in their zones and in the Ranji trophy first and foremost. It's just that success rate of domestic bullies is far lower than the success rate of those who are fast-tracked.