cricket_usa Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 So you are against taking an innocent life unless it is necessary, am I right? I am sure 99% of the conservatives will agree with that. At the same time around 85% of the conservatives supportes Iraq wars. Why are conservatives like you who are against killing of innocent babies support the wars where many innocent people of all ages were killed along with the terrorist? Why don't the conservatives make a big deal about collatral damage and taking someones unalienable right is the right to life?
cricket_usa Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Jon Stewart gives more reliable news that Hannaty, who runs an opinion show and is not a journalist.
Brainfade Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 Okay first things first, take off Comedy Central from the list CA. Surely Jon Stewart does not belong in the same line up as Sean Hannity, Greta, Ed Schultz etc. Of the two channels Bill O Reilley and Joe Scarborough are the only two that talks sense (Rachel maddow is going down the poopers fast too). Stewart for the most part still remains a voice of sanity. (I am guessing your mention of Comedy Central had more to do with Jon Stewart and not South Park lol). With regards to your larger contention on charisma, that is indeed true but hardly applies to Republican line up. I mean who would suggest Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul or Mitt Romney have charisma? If that is indeed charisma then what did Bill Clinton have?? Or thats how our standards have fallen these days? I do concede that increasingly substance is taking a back seat these days in average life (let alone politics). Also there is this thought, with some justification, that right wing support is dependent on who can cash the hate-factor against Obama. Not everyone who is anti-Obama is a hater but there are plenty enough surely. And Huntsman being the genial guy he is wont get support from this group..which is a shame really. Charisma: A personal quality that gives an individual an authority over people. Romney has the "all-American" male look. Newt Gingrich has the rhetorical skills. Obama has the charm, voice, the populist message, the ability to make a bad idea sound wonderful. Anything but substance. Bill Clinton's charisma was in his boyish, humble look. But then again, it was combined with substance and good sense to jump on someone else's good idea and make it work when it made sense for the nation (welfare reform, balanced budget).
Lurker Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Charisma: A personal quality that gives an individual an authority over people. Romney has the "all-American" male look. Newt Gingrich has the rhetorical skills. Obama has the charm, voice, the populist message, the ability to make a bad idea sound wonderful. Anything but substance. Bill Clinton's charisma was in his boyish, humble look. But then again, it was combined with substance and good sense to jump on someone else's good idea and make it work when it made sense for the nation (welfare reform, balanced budget). Its kinda hard to justify charisma, its obviously dependent on an individual on what appeals to him. But lets take the case of Bill Clinton. He was a pretty educated chap (this was of course in the era when well-read person meant something..not today when candidates openly admit they dont know much, but will surrround them with people who do), he was always a very good orator and debator who can hold against seasoned politician. He was a good politician in terms of strategies etc. Had a very warming smile and came across as a charmer during interviews. That laced with the typical Southern boy looks, accent meant most people, specially women, appreciated him. How can you put him in the same line up as Gingrich and Ron Paul?? Mitt Romney may have the looks but the more he opens his mouth the more he sounds like a turncoat/oppertunist. Who is he charming with his charisma CA?
Brainfade Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 So you are against taking an innocent life unless it is necessary' date= am I right? I am sure 99% of the conservatives will agree with that. At the same time around 85% of the conservatives supportes Iraq wars. Why are conservatives like you who are against killing of innocent babies support the wars where many innocent people of all ages were killed along with the terrorist? Why don't the conservatives make a big deal about collatral damage and taking someones unalienable right is the right to life? You obviously haven't read my posts about how I felt about the wars. I am in no mood to copy-paste them. I thought you were interested in an honest, science-based argument for my pro-life position. I gave it to you.
Brainfade Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 Its kinda hard to justify charisma, its obviously dependent on an individual on what appeals to him. But lets take the case of Bill Clinton. He was a pretty educated chap (this was of course in the era when well-read person meant something..not today when candidates openly admit they dont know much, but will surrround them with people who do), he was always a very good orator and debator who can hold against seasoned politician. He was a good politician in terms of strategies etc. Had a very warming smile and came across as a charmer during interviews. That laced with the typical Southern boy looks, accent meant most people, specially women, appreciated him. How can you put him in the same line up as Gingrich and Ron Paul?? Mitt Romney may have the looks but the more he opens his mouth the more he sounds like a turncoat/oppertunist. Who is he charming with his charisma CA? Ron Paul? I've never considered Ron Paul charismatic. I have always posted that the guy has no charm whatsoever. You are simply equating charisma with good looks. Newt Gingrich is just as well-educated, intelligent and articulate as any politician I have known. His charisma is in his ability to debate and argue his points. Mitt Romney's charisma is in his looks. Again, the quality that confers someone with their charisma is variable. Heck, millions of people found Hitler charismatic. I don't buy into any of their messages/charisma.
Lurker Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Ron Paul? I've never considered Ron Paul charismatic. I have always posted that the guy has no charm whatsoever. Sure lets get Paul out of the way. Newt Gingrich is just as well-educated, intelligent and articulate as any politician I have known. His charisma is in his ability to debate and argue his points. Mitt Romney's charisma is in his looks. Newt comes across as a college professor who is always patronizing to whoever is asking the question. Heck he is patronizing to his fellow candidates. That is just the opposite of charm ( to me). Trying to put down people with your intellect. And yes Newt has intelligence and can argue his points, no doubt there at all. Mitt has looks only. If you wanted to get them together, say Newt's substance with more mellow character, somebody who listens to people and isnt a judgemental freak, and also has a more pleasant personality (a la Romney), yes I would consider him a charmer...which Bill Clinton was I think. Again, the quality that confers someone with their charisma is variable. Heck, millions of people found Hitler charismatic. Oh come on now CA, you are sounding like those very people you dislike(Fox news and MSNBC scribes) who are too quick to throw the Nazi and hitler card these days :winky:
Brainfade Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 http://www.c-span.org/Events/Gingrich-Huntsman-Debate-Natl-Security-Issues/10737426215/
Brainfade Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 Sure lets get Paul out of the way. Newt comes across as a college professor who is always patronizing to whoever is asking the question. Heck he is patronizing to his fellow candidates. That is just the opposite of charm ( to me). Trying to put down people with your intellect. And yes Newt has intelligence and can argue his points, no doubt there at all. Mitt has looks only. If you wanted to get them together, say Newt's substance with more mellow character, somebody who listens to people and isnt a judgemental freak, and also has a more pleasant personality (a la Romney), yes I would consider him a charmer...which Bill Clinton was I think. Oh come on now CA, you are sounding like those very people you dislike(Fox news and MSNBC scribes) who are too quick to throw the Nazi and hitler card these days :winky: No, I just used it as an obvious to show you that rather ugly people with hideous messages have some force of magnetism. Maybe I should have used one of the 1000s of "Godmen" who grace the consciousness of so many people.
cricket_usa Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of many conservatives today. I am sorry, I take back when I included you. I use to be a conservative before the party was hijacked by the extreme right. Here is what I think the conservatives believe: Regan America #1 My God can kick your God's ass Black women are welfare queens and Black men are criminals If you speak spanish you are illegal Regan American soldiers can never commit any crime Homophobic Don't care anything aout science Regan Corporate welfare Rich people are job creators and they should not be ruffeled. If you disturb them, then they'll lay will not lay their golden egg here Regan
Rajiv Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Actually that is a very pertinent point Newt has Rajeev. The undercurrent there is that these immigrants who are coming over are overwhelmingly Christians, and often very religious Catholic. Since religion is very important to many conservative this factor certainly appeals. Do we seriously think if Mexico was a non-Christian state, say Islamic, there would not have been a very strict policy to stop this? :winky: I know why he said it, but it's wrong. I mean someone who works for 12 hrs a day, has no time for church..it's just the concept that you got to be a believer
yoda Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Like' date='[i'] totally? Yep, exactly the problem with the electorate today. We will elect (and have most recently elected) someone who talks little sense but does talk a good game and has charisma, but not someone with a track-record of substantive leadership and no charisma. We don't realize that the need of the hour in not rhetoric, but solid, substantive, grounded ideas and leadership. In today's visual-media driven circus, the force of personality trumps the force of achievement - a direct consequence of relying on news and opinions from MSNBC, FoxNews and Comedy Central? Charisma is part of the package. Clinton and Obama had it ofc, Bush had none, but Gore was such a stiff, in the end it didn't matter. Need to the hour is a willingness on the part of the right to make compromises on ideology and do what is best for the country. Instead all you see is grand standing with the sole intention of making Obama look bad. Anyways, given the Republican choices, I expect Obama to remain in office and the gridlock to continue at a minimum till 2014 when hopefully Repubs get kicked out of the House and we can have 2 years of some progress. If that happens in 2012, even better.
punjabi_khota Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 The number of things Obama did before the republican takeover in Jan-2011 is astounding. The dumb****s have completely stalled any sign of progress. Hell, even in December 2010 there were several important bills passed, more than the all this year. Since then, nothing except vapid meaningless debates and bullshit. Meanwhile, http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/14/health/health-insurance/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Brainfade Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of many conservatives today. I am sorry, I take back when I included you. I use to be a conservative before the party was hijacked by the extreme right. Here is what I think the conservatives believe: Regan America #1 My God can kick your God's ass Black women are welfare queens and Black men are criminals If you speak spanish you are illegal Regan American soldiers can never commit any crime Homophobic Don't care anything aout science Regan Corporate welfare Rich people are job creators and they should not be ruffeled. If you disturb them, then they'll lay will not lay their golden egg here Regan I hope you see how your stereotyping of conservatives is just as specious as theirs of liberals. This is just as bad as Obama making a snide remark about how all conservatives cling to their guns and religion. Total crock.
Brainfade Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 The number of things Obama did before the republican takeover in Jan-2011 is astounding. The dumb****s have completely stalled any sign of progress. Hell, even in December 2010 there were several important bills passed, more than the all this year. Since then, nothing except vapid meaningless debates and bullshit. Meanwhile, http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/14/health/health-insurance/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 Of course he did ... with a mesmerized Democratic majority in both houses, it was a breeze. As for the CNN article about AHCA: My premiums went up by 20%. Yours? Maybe AHCA helped reduce the deficit. Umm ... maybe not: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/05/cbo-health-care-bill-will-cost-115-billion-more-than-previously-assessed/ CBO had originally estimated that the health care reform bill would result in a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion from 2010-2019; this revised number would eliminate most of that savings. Regardless, the AHCA was a big political victory for Obama. Was it a victory for sensible health care reform? Like Pelosi said: hV-05TLiiLU Pass it first, and then find out what's in it ... Brilliant!
Brainfade Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 What is amusingly sickening about watching political debates/speeches from politicians on both sides: The use of the term: "THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ..." Get over it already ... what other people could we possibly be talking about? Just say "People." It has also permeated shows like "America's got talent". Quickly become a pet peeve of mine.
Lurker Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 What is amusingly sickening about watching political debates/speeches from politicians on both sides: The use of the term: "THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ..." Get over it already ... what other people could we possibly be talking about? Just say "People." It has also permeated shows like "America's got talent". Quickly become a pet peeve of mine. Indeed. :nice: Those three words, The American People (or People), is being used by everyone to further their agenda. And so the television hosts typically go with a "I know its a hard question Mr. Gingrich but the American people want to know". Really? American people have been screwed for last 4 years in an economic debacle that has moved US atleast back by a decade. TAP want to know about Gingrich's wife(s)?
Ram Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Huh? If I was, why would I support Huntsman? Solid conservative ideas with a moderate voice. A liberal wants higher taxes, more spending on entitlement programs, more govt involvement in everything, more concerned with feelings and political correctness than pragmatism, thinks demanding personal responsibility it cruel, is pro-abortion. I am none of those. Sorry If I came across as a bit abrupt/rude. What I actually meant to say was You may side with conservative ideals in principle, but in practice, Its almost impossible to adhere to.
yoda Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 This is a classic case of deadlock, thanks to the Right. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-12-14/payroll-tax-cut-senate/51918142/1?csp=34news They pass a payroll tax bill (due to expire by year end unless renewed) including an unrelated oil pipeline approval in it, which Obama has clearly said will be vetoed. Now why the feck will you waste your time passing a bill with an unrelated issue when you know it isn't getting anywhere, except for Political gains and grandstanding?
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