Vijay.Sharma Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 So a few years back I was running Accounting Reports for one of the world's largest copper company based out of AZ (it was eventually merged with one of the world's largest gold company). One of the KPIs for this company was called P3 (Price Per Pound) of Copper. Since this company had mines all over the world the P3 was broken down by region. Here is a sample of how it looked. P3 in USA - 100c/lb P3 in Peru/Chile - 15c/lb P3 in Congo/other parts of Africa - 1c/lb (figures for illustration purpose only of course). The non-US companies were helping the bottomline, boosting the profits and share market, thus making the workers, and US citizens rich. Had it been depedent on US mines only, the copper company may have either made a loss or shut down. You truly beleive Chinese workers are the only lot who has helped US citizen celebrate "economic freedom"?? xxxWow, that is quite a difference. But correct me if I am wrong, don't most of these metals, minerals, etc have an international exchange (like spice exchange, or currency exchange) and traded as commodities - u know he commodity market? And if it is part of the commodity market then obviously prices will be regulated and will be more or less the same across the board right?
Brainfade Posted January 24, 2012 Author Posted January 24, 2012 So a few years back I was running Accounting Reports for one of the world's largest copper company based out of AZ (it was eventually merged with one of the world's largest gold company). One of the KPIs for this company was called P3 (Price Per Pound) of Copper. Since this company had mines all over the world the P3 was broken down by region. Here is a sample of how it looked. P3 in USA - 100c/lb P3 in Peru/Chile - 15c/lb P3 in Congo/other parts of Africa - 1c/lb (figures for illustration purpose only of course). The non-US companies were helping the bottomline, boosting the profits and share market, thus making the workers, and US citizens rich. Had it been depedent on US mines only, the copper company may have either made a loss or shut down. You truly beleive Chinese workers are the only lot who has helped US citizen celebrate "economic freedom"?? xxx No, of course not. But, the story was about China ... so I talked about China.
Brainfade Posted January 24, 2012 Author Posted January 24, 2012 Free Market at work' date=' innit ?[/quote'] Truly? No. In a true free market, a laborer should also be able to freely negotiate wages based on the skills he/she brings. The Chinese factory would pay fair wages based on the free-market value of the skill. As it exists today, capitalism in one country is taking advantage of communism/dictatorship/state-repressed non-free_market labor in another. It is capitalism without a conscience.
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Truly? No. In a true free market' date=' a laborer should also be able to freely negotiate wages based on the skills he/she brings. The Chinese factory would pay fair wages based on the free-market value of the skill. As it exists today, capitalism in one country is taking advantage of communism/dictatorship/state-repressed non-free_market labor in another. It is capitalism without a conscience.[/quote']Has capitalism ever had a conscience?
Brainfade Posted January 24, 2012 Author Posted January 24, 2012 Has capitalism ever had a conscience? Are you saying that there is no company out there that does business with a conscience?
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Are you saying that there is no company out there that does business with a conscience?My question wasn't referring to a level of capitalism that your question comes from. I was referring to capitalism as a policy by a nation. When it comes to companies, sure there would be some companies that do business very ethically. But most of the big companies operate in a less-than-conscience. In fact it wouldn't be a wrong argument that they became big because of losing their conscience in situations which allowed them to become big.
Lurker Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Wow' date=' that is quite a difference. But correct me if I am wrong, don't most of these metals, minerals, etc have an international exchange (like spice exchange, or currency exchange) and traded as commodities - u know he commodity market? And if it is part of the commodity market then obviously prices will be regulated and will be more or less the same across the board right?[/quote'] No not really. Commodity market works for a matured industry, and for mature countries. Oil is a good example where International demand triggers the price. Precious metal is another. Copper is not a precious metal. Plus when you extract it out of countries that are poor and corrupt who cares about the International prices??
Lurker Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 No' date=' of course not. But, the story was about China ... so I talked about China.[/quote'] CA. Whats your thoughts on China relationship with USA overall? Put it this way since the days Nixon and Kissinger opened up to China and sinked billions into the country, where China was now, and where it stands today. Do you agree/disagree with US politics on that (strategically)? And also do you think if Chinese people lack freedom it has something to do with the fact that US has been supportive of Communist in China one way or the other for 4 decades plus now?
ravishingravi Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Truly? No. In a true free market' date=' a laborer should also be able to freely negotiate wages based on the skills he/she brings. The Chinese factory would pay fair wages based on the free-market value of the skill. As it exists today, capitalism in one country is taking advantage of communism/dictatorship/state-repressed non-free_market labor in another. It is capitalism without a conscience.[/quote'] There is no element of conscience or moral absolutism in capitalism other than some very basic rights like right to ownership. It is free market. China's internal labour policy is not the responsibility of corporates in US. They are merely looking at ways to cut down the cost.
Brainfade Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 There is no element of conscience or moral absolutism in capitalism other than some very basic rights like right to ownership. It is free market. China's internal labour policy is not the responsibility of corporates in US. They are merely looking at ways to cut down the cost. You said it! In a true free market, the workers own their skills and sell them for a mutually acceptable market value. In China, there is no *mutual* acceptance. Govt says you do, you do. It's like the govt has the basic right to ownership ... of you. That's not capitalism.
Brainfade Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 Update from NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?_r=2 People like Ms. White of Harvard say that until consumers demand better conditions in overseas factories — as they did for companies like Nike and Gap, which today have overhauled conditions among suppliers — or regulators act, there is little impetus for radical change. Some Apple insiders agree. “You can either manufacture in comfortable, worker-friendly factories, or you can reinvent the product every year, and make it better and faster and cheaper, which requires factories that seem harsh by American standards,” said a current Apple executive. “And right now, customers care more about a new iPhone than working conditions in China.” How telling is that last sentence!
Brainfade Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 CA. Whats your thoughts on China relationship with USA overall? Put it this way since the days Nixon and Kissinger opened up to China and sinked billions into the country, where China was now, and where it stands today. Do you agree/disagree with US politics on that (strategically)? I am not quite well-read on all the history, but did the US *Govt* sink billions? Or was it all corporate cash pouring in? And also do you think if Chinese people lack freedom it has something to do with the fact that US has been supportive of Communist in China one way or the other for 4 decades plus now? Supportive of or subordinate to :)? I think the US overextended its reach in China, and it has backfired. The Chinese played this one much better.
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