Davangere Express watch thread

[rkt.india]

why should others have to do everything..why cant Ishanth put some effort and try to improve.. there are many people in various fields who have more talent but without opporunities, but this Guy (others similer to him) have all the facilities in world still cant improve but we have to support him because TINA :banghead: common RKT be reasonable

This is a reason. He is not poor. Even when he is poor, he is better than many we have and I am sure he will improve in the break he has got. I do not think any one has done much and he has done everything himself with his coach. Look at countries like Aus and England. They have so much training facilities and specialist for their fast bowlers. We do not have any. We have a bowling coach who has not done anything with our pacers. It is his responsibility to refine our bowlers. If these bowlers are supposed to do everything on their own, why would we need a fast bowling coach then. In fact, according to Ishant, Simmons does not see any thing wrong with Ishant's approach and then we expect Ishant to improve with an ineffective coach.

[ganeshran]

ya its coach's fault that Ishant has shown no signs of improvement for the last four years. I have defended him lots because of his potential but its time for his to go back to domestic cricket and toil for a season before making it to the International side

[rkt.india]

ya its coach's fault that Ishant has shown no signs of improvement for the last four years. I have defended him lots because of his potential but its time for his to go back to domestic cricket and toil for a season before making it to the International side

You don't take that many wickets without improvement and if it is not coach's fault then what you say in case of other bowlers who have been even poor than Ishant.

[ganeshran]

You don't take that many wickets without improvement and if it is not coach's fault then what you say in case of other bowlers who have been even poor than Ishant.

Ishant has played under multiple coaches and enjoyed the best of facilities available in india. Even after 4 years, if he is not able to improve then its time to accept that its more of his mistake rather than the coach. Let his spend a season in domestic or country and then come back. But the status quo cant be allowed to carry on just because he has potential and all the ingredients to be a good bowler.

[rkt.india]

Ishant has played under multiple coaches and enjoyed the best of facilities available in india. Even after 4 years, if he is not able to improve then its time to accept that its more of his mistake rather than the coach. Let his spend a season in domestic or country and then come back. But the status quo cant be allowed to carry on just because he has potential and all the ingredients to be a good bowler.

To tell you something, there are not facilities or coaching in India like it is in England. We all have natural fast bowlers if we had any good coaching facility, Mithun's bowling would have been sorted out by now. It is the players themselves who do every thing on their own. I did not give any credit to any bowling coach India had. In fact, Subroto Banerjee and Ishant's club coach have done better job than Indian bowling coaches. I am not asking him to play in every match if he is not performing, let him play play FC cricket and improve his technical issues and then come back again, but I am against discarding a bowler like him as we have not discarded bowlers like Pathan and RP yet who are no good.

[ganeshran]

To tell you something' date=' there are not facilities or coaching in India like it is in England. We all have natural fast bowlers if we had any good coaching facility, Mithun's bowling would have been sorted out by now. It is the players themselves who do every thing on their own. I did not give any credit to any bowling coach India had. In fact, Subroto Banerjee and Ishant's club coach have done better job than Indian bowling coaches.[/quote'] Pakistani bowlers come from the same (and even worse) system and facilities. In the end its upto the bowler to make the most of what is available to him and to improve from the exposure at this level. if he is not able to do so after so long its more his mistake rather than the coach/captain/selectors.

[ganeshran]

I am not asking him to play in every match if he is not performing, let him play play FC cricket and improve his technical issues and then come back again, but I am against discarding a bowler like him as we have not discarded bowlers like Pathan and RP yet who are no good.

This is what I am saying. He needs to play FC and county till he is good enough to stage a comeback. He has age on his side to comeback strongly, but we cant keep on playing him at the highest level if this level of performance carries on.

[rkt.india]

Pakistani bowlers come from the same (and even worse) system and facilities. In the end its upto the bowler to make the most of what is available to him and to improve from the exposure at this level. if he is not able to do so after so long its more his mistake rather than the coach/captain/selectors.

But when our national bowling coach do not see any issues with his approach then who to blame for that. Coach can ask him alter his lengths in Australia but it did not happen because coach did not see any problem in what he was bowling and in his approach and if coach does not have to do any thing then why he is their, just to confuse the guys. Our bowlers lose their natural style which Ishant lost when he tried to copy Zak and these coaches make these guys confused and make them change their natural style and then they ended up nothing. Same thing happened with Pathan and Munaf as well. If we cannot have a coach who can make them better then what is the use of having that coach. Look at the transformation of Yadav, this is the work of a bowling coach which Bannerjee did who changed Yadav's approach and turned him into a better bowler than what we saw in 2010 in Zimbabwe, look at Pattinson, he was not taking many wickets in Sheiffiled Shield for Victoria but Mcdermott worked on him during SL and Aus tour on his lengths and swing and the guy who did not have a single FC 5-fer now is a red hot property in Australian cricket that is what is called coaching. Coach's work is to make a bowler better with what he has and what improvements he can make in his limitations, not to confuse the bowler and force him to change so much that he can lose even what he already had.

[Magneto]

Bowled really well in the first two overs today! :hail: 5-er for next match!! Another Aussie tormentor in the making. :yay:

[CG]

ya its coach's fault that Ishant has shown no signs of improvement for the last four years. I have defended him lots because of his potential but its time for his to go back to domestic cricket and toil for a season before making it to the International side

:hysterical::hysterical:,So you did not watch indian cricket in 2008-2009,where everybody was saying he is the most improved bowler and one of the best in the world.

[bulbul]

:hysterical::hysterical:' date='So you did not watch indian cricket in 2008-2009,where everybody was saying he is the most improved bowler and one of the best in the world.[/quote'] Steven Harmison was world No 1 bowler during 2004/2005...took 80+ wkts in a year

[ganeshran]

:hysterical::hysterical:' date='So you did not watch indian cricket in 2008-2009,where everybody was saying he is the most improved bowler and one of the best in the world.[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical: Praveen Kumar led us to a series win in 2008, but somehow that happened 4 years ago so doesnt count.

[rkt.india]

:hysterical::hysterical: Praveen Kumar led us to a series win in 2008, but somehow that happened 4 years ago so doesnt count.

It was Ishant who had a bigger role than Praveen Kumar in the same series, remember?

[CG]

:hysterical::hysterical: Praveen Kumar led us to a series win in 2008, but somehow that happened 4 years ago so doesnt count.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::haha::haha: You are not comparing ishant performance in 2008-09 tests to praveen performance in 2 finals of odis are you.:hysterical::hysterical:,and you said he did not improve in last 4 years where as he was ranked in top 10 icc bowlers in 2009 in tests.

[ganeshran]

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::haha::haha: You are not comparing ishant performance in 2008-09 tests to praveen performance in 2 finals of odis are you.:hysterical::hysterical:' date='and you said he did not improve in last 4 years where as he was ranked in top 10 icc bowlers in 2009 in tests.[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical: Ya Ishant was a half decent fast bowler in 2008-09 so he is still good but PK was good in 2008 but that doesnt count because it was so long ago. He has improved tremendously during the last 4 years and bowls at an average of 70 and 55+ in Australia and England I am sure hope Ishant will improve in the future but the double standards of the phaasht bowling fanatics on the forum are glaring.

[ganeshran]

It was Ishant who had a bigger role than Praveen Kumar in the same series' date=' remember?[/quote'] Ishant picked up more wickets because he got a lot of chances. PK bowled crucial spells in the matches he got in the series. Anyways, I am not looking to compare PK and Ishant. My point was against posters who find everyone else to blame when phhasht bowlers bowl poorly but call a medium pacer crap at the drop of the hat.

[rkt.india]

Ishant picked up more wickets because he got a lot of chances. PK bowled crucial spells in the matches he got in the series. Anyways, I am not looking to compare PK and Ishant. My point was against posters who find everyone else to blame when phhasht bowlers bowl poorly but call a medium pacer crap at the drop of the hat.

i had written the reason in another behind this above and you should read and you will get yours answer why we do that. Here is my answer.

Because trundlers are mostly useless in most conditions and at least are not match winners and fast bowlers even they are crap can be persisted with because of pace, which one cannot learn, while other things can be improved if worked with coaches while a coach cannot bring pace to a trundler. Even if a fast bowler does not bowl well for a time period, we still need to back that fast bowler and work on him to improve those aspects where he is lacking. It was not like Ishant was crap whole career, w hen he came good in tests, he proved match winner which shows he still needs to be persisted with. While this is not the case with trundlers as they do not have good enough pace. We see how Aussie, Saffers, Ingerland fast bowlers keep kicking our butts, but we are still happy with trundlers. Pace in itself is a huge advantage and after that it is all about getting it right. What more ridiculous was at MCG, Starc, Harris, Mackay torn our batting on a fast pitch by pace while we were dishing lollipops through 5 spinners. Our batsmen have every right to feel unfortunate and discouraged after seeing that.

[ganeshran]

i had written the reason in another behind this above and you should read and you will get yours answer why we do that. Here is my answer.

What are the speed limits below which a bowler is a trundler and above which he is a medium pacer or phaasht. The regular bowling speeds and not one off faster or slower deliveries.

[chainsmoker1985]

What are the speed limits below which a bowler is a trundler and above which he is a medium pacer or phaasht. The regular bowling speeds and not one off faster or slower deliveries.

Don't know about others but Praveen is definitely a trundler who is bowling at 122-125 k in Australian conditions. He definitely has a backing of MSD, which some other bowlers are missing. P.S.- But I still don't have much problem with PK as we all have accepted him as a swing bowler. There are some other bowlers who also swings the ball the same way and at a higher pace like Ben Hilfenhaus. But, its ok

[maniac]

After watching VK bowl in Perth test,he shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near international cricket... He might have exceeded expectations in the ODI's so far but again the bar for him was set low that it is not that difficult I guess. We have disposed so many mercurial talents in the past after a few bad performances that it is definetely weird that this guy keeps getting persisted with till he springs one decent performance here and there. I know or atleast hope this is a sarcastic thread but VK is not the future and there is always a very high chance that he might screw up in crucial situations. He has a good work ethic but seriously whenever this guy makes it to the final X1,I lose a bit more respect for Anil Kumble which is already at a all time low thanks to VK.