Ultimate_Game Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 ICC has made a mess of a simple rule which worked for ages, i.e. if you see it let the umpires call it. Simle really. All this talk of "bending elbows", "hyper-extension", "15 degree rule" etc. are useless and utter gibberish. What's the point of having a rule which can't be enforced in the middle during the game? I mean if an umpire can't call a no-bal in the middle when he sees it why even have the rule?
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 ICC has made a mess of a simple rule which worked for ages' date=' i.e. if you see it let the umpires call it. Simle really. All this talk of "bending elbows", "hyper-extension", "15 degree rule" etc. are useless and utter gibberish. What's the point of having a rule which can't be enforced in the middle during the game? I mean if an umpire can't call a no-bal in the middle when he sees it why even have the rule?[/quote'] agree with you...i also disagree with the ICC on a lot of other changes....but since now that they have this rule in place, you can't call anything illegal if it follows the rules....10 years ago it would have been illegal...today..its legal
Magneto Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Do you really believe when he went to Aus alone he completely understood the whole test proceeding' date=' criteria, its results and all of his conversations there, :cantstop:the man who saying "mujey itni english b nahi ati thi, sath koi b nahi gya, mai to aisey tha jaisey yateem ho koi":--D[/quote'] You have a point there. Ajmal's comprehension of the whole matter as explained to him by the biomechanical experts might not be cent per cent accurate. I still wanted everyone to watch that interview because it is such a fun interview. :hitler: For example, Sohail Tanvir's remarks about how cautious Ajmal gets when he hears that cameras would be fixed on the terrace for different angles and all. Ajmal also said that his doosra bends lesser than his normal delivery.
Magneto Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 agree with you...i also disagree with the ICC on a lot of other changes....but since now that they have this rule in place' date=' you can't call anything illegal if it follows the rules....10 years ago it would have been illegal...today..its legal[/quote'] And since they have given Murali a leeway, they should give it to Ajmal as well.
Ultimate_Game Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 agree with you...i also disagree with the ICC on a lot of other changes....but since now that they have this rule in place' date=' you can't call anything illegal if it follows the rules....10 years ago it would have been illegal...today..its legal[/quote'] Yup and it's not Ajmal, Murali or any player's fault. They are not the ones who opened this can of worms with the "15 degree" thing. One of the most important reason a rule is put in place, I would say the primary reason, is that it can be enforced. If you can't even enforce it what's the point? ICC should have continued with the "see it call it" rule till the time they had technology to measure the degree of bendin the arm real-time just like checking for no-balls when determining whether the batsman is out at the time of a referal. Thus the 3rd umpire could see if a bowler was going beyond 15 degrees and call a no-ball. But until we come up with such technology stick with what works. I mean don't fix something which ain't broke, or in case of ICC don't break something when you don't know how to fix it.
Old guy Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 You have a point there. Ajmal's comprehension of the whole matter as explained to him by the biomechanical experts might not be cent per cent accurate. I still wanted everyone to watch that interview because it is such a fun interview. :hitler: For example, Sohail Tanvir's remarks about how cautious Ajmal gets when he hears that cameras would be fixed on the terrace for different angles and all. Ajmal also said that his doosra bends lesser than his normal delivery. :cantstop: i will man ..fecking slow internet today
Magneto Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 ICC has made a mess of a simple rule which worked for ages' date=' i.e. if you see it let the umpires call it. Simle really. All this talk of "bending elbows", "hyper-extension", "15 degree rule" etc. are useless and utter gibberish. What's the point of having a rule which can't be enforced in the middle during the game? I mean if an umpire can't call a no-bal in the middle when he sees it why even have the rule?[/quote'] ICC did it to take care of medical exceptions like Murali and Ajmal. Also, the umpire calling it was making it contentious; one umpire would call it and another one will not creating pointless confusion. In cases like this, scientific opinion would provide more objectivity than anything else. And since they simulate the entire action with a video screen with 3D technology, it will take out all the errors that a human eye can make.
Asim Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 You have a point there. Ajmal's comprehension of the whole matter as explained to him by the biomechanical experts might not be cent per cent accurate. I still wanted everyone to watch that interview because it is such a fun interview. :hitler: For example, Sohail Tanvir's remarks about how cautious Ajmal gets when he hears that cameras would be fixed on the terrace for different angles and all. Ajmal also said that his doosra bends lesser than his normal delivery. bhai qassam khuda ki daikh lia hey interview, kyu yaqeen nahi aa raha? :winky: Please everybody confirm here after watching it...
Magneto Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 bhai qassam khuda ki daikh lia hey interview, kyu yaqeen nahi aa raha? :winky: Please everybody confirm here after watching it... You must have seen it years back anyway :winky:
Asim Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 PCB: The ICC's level of tolerance of 15 degrees relates to the degree of elbow extension that is permitted in the bowling action i.e. the amount by which the arm is straightening. Previous tests conducted on the action of Saeed Ajmal show that the degree of elbow extension is well within ICC’s tolerance levels. Saeed Ajmal was referring to the angle of elbow abduction i.e. the angle of the upper arm to the forearm and not the degree of elbow extension. This angle is approximately 23 degrees in Saeed's case. ICC: There is a big difference between the "elbow carry angle" (elbow abduction) and the degree of elbow extension. There is nothing preventing a bowler bowling with a bent arm, provided he does not straighten it beyond the permitted degrees of tolerance. (Honestly speaking I cudnt get it 100% but it sounds like some clarification)
Guest Cricket Cricket Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 y 23.5 ? i would say allow 360 `. Pakis are from planet pakistan. They deserve some special treatment.
Ultimate_Game Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 ICC did it to take care of medical exceptions like Murali and Ajmal. Also, the umpire calling it was making it contentious; one umpire would call it and another one will not creating pointless confusion. In cases like this, scientific opinion would provide more objectivity than anything else. And since they simulate the entire action with a video screen with 3D technology, it will take out all the errors that a human eye can make. No other professional sports does that or allows it to happen. It's professional sports and not some charity game where you can give a few players a handicap. This is unfair to the batsmen and the opposing teams who are playing by the rules. The problem with giving such exceptions is that it opens up a whole lot of issues and you go on a slippery path. E.g., tomorrow another "handicapped" player comes in who can't bowl within 30 degrees, will ICC make an exception for him as well? In fact if the trend continues, all the cricket teams will start looking for handicapped players or people with anomalies so that they can gain advantage from the rule.
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Yup and it's not Ajmal' date=' Murali or any player's fault. They are not the ones who opened this can of worms with the "15 degree" thing. One of the most important reason, I would say the primary reason, is that it can be enforced. If you can't even enforce it what's the point? ICC should have continued with the "see it call it" rule till the time they had technology to measure the degree of bendin the arm real-time just like checking for no-balls when determining whether the batsman is out at the time of a referal. Thus the 3rd umpire could see if a bowler was going beyond 15 degrees and call a no-ball. But until we come up with such technology stick with what works. I mean don't fix something which ain't broke, or in case of ICC don't break something when you don't know how to fix it.[/quote'] yea..well when murli was called by an umpire...the srilankan board threatened ICC with dire actions..so the ICC decided to let him play for a while...and when the time came for testing him..he was already a star by then so they came up with the 15 degree rule...also the ICC found out that a lot of other bowlers from all over the world were chucking (they didn't release the names of these players), so they put this rule in place to fit them in
f.b.m Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 There's shouldnt be an issue with bending the arm by 24 degrees, its the straightening thats a problem. So if the bowling 'action' starts at 23.5 and ends at 8.5 degrees its legit. If it ends at 8 or anything less, its illegal. People keep confusing bending the arm with straightening. Dont know why really, its been discussed to death on any cricket forum ever since Valmiki started making documentaries...
Magneto Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 PCB: The ICC's level of tolerance of 15 degrees relates to the degree of elbow extension that is permitted in the bowling action i.e. the amount by which the arm is straightening. Previous tests conducted on the action of Saeed Ajmal show that the degree of elbow extension is well within ICC’s tolerance levels. Saeed Ajmal was referring to the angle of elbow abduction i.e. the angle of the upper arm to the forearm and not the degree of elbow extension. This angle is approximately 23 degrees in Saeed's case. ICC: There is a big difference between the "elbow carry angle" (elbow abduction) and the degree of elbow extension. There is nothing preventing a bowler bowling with a bent arm, provided he does not straighten it beyond the permitted degrees of tolerance. (Honestly speaking I cudnt get it 100% but it sounds like some clarification) These fecking Greek words 'abduction' 'carry angle' piss me off completely :mad: I knew another meaning of abduction Good for nerds who understand and wanna discuss. I'm off from here. Please communicate to Ajmal next time he bowls to us we'll have cameras in 345 angles, so he should order some more full-sleeved shirts, and not bowl any doosras. :hehe:
Old guy Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 There's shouldnt be an issue with bending the arm by 24 degrees, its the straightening thats a problem. So if the bowling 'action' starts at 23.5 and ends at 8.5 degrees its legit. If it ends at 8 or anything less, its illegal. People keep confusing bending the arm with straightening. Dont know why really, its been discussed to death on any cricket forum ever since Valmiki started making documentaries... exactly.. now thread close:P
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 There's shouldnt be an issue with bending the arm by 24 degrees, its the straightening thats a problem. So if the bowling 'action' starts at 23.5 and ends at 8.5 degrees its legit. If it ends at 8 or anything less, its illegal. People keep confusing bending the arm with straightening. Dont know why really, its been discussed to death on any cricket forum ever since Valmiki started making documentaries... yea you are correct..its perfectly legal.. the discussion i am having is that 10 years ago the 15 degree rule was like a 2-5 degree rule something like that ..i forget... but when the ICC found out that some of the star players were chucking after the medical tests..they increased the leeway to 15 degrees.... but I don't think that the current leeway will increase anymore since any newcomer will have his action checked on the first sign of suspicion..just like ajmal's action was checked back in australia
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