Ultimate_Game Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 yea..well when murli was called by an umpire...the srilankan board threatened ICC with dire actions..so the ICC decided to let him play for a while...and when the time came for testing him..he was already a star by then so they came up with the 15 degree rule...also the ICC found out that a lot of other bowlers from all over the world were chucking (they didn't release the names of these players)' date=' so they put this rule in place to fit them in[/quote'] That whole "all the bowlers bend arms" was howash. Do you seriously believe McGrath or Pollock bends the arm as much as Murali? As I said if it feels like a chuck, looks like a chuck, it most probably is a chuck. The only way this never-ending controversy will end is if umpires are allowed to call a no-ball in the middle and all the bowlers are asked to bowl with short sleeves so umpires can have a good look at the elbows while bowling.
Magneto Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 No other professional sports does that or allows it to happen. It's professional sports and not some charity game where you can give a few players a handicap. This is unfair to the batsmen and the opposing teams who are playing by the rules. The problem with giving such exceptions is that it opens up a whole lot of issues and you go on a slippery path. E.g.' date=' tomorrow another "handicapped" player comes in who can't bowl within 30 degrees, will ICC make an exception for him as well? In fact if the trend continues, all the cricket teams will start looking for handicapped players or people with anomalies so that they can gain advantage from the rule.[/quote'] My point was mainly about the reason behind using scientific technology. Whether people with handicaps should be allowed to participate (resulting in hardcore rules being bent), is a separate debate. Will engage in that some other day. Have debated this point since the coming of Murali with different people, and frankly people have polarised opinions on this. So a debate will not take us anywhere. :dontknow:
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 That whole "all the bowlers bend arms" was howash. Do you seriously believe McGrath or Pollock bends the arm as much as Murali? As I said if it feels like a chuck' date=' looks like a chuck, it most probably is a chuck. The only way this never-ending controversy will end is if umpires are allowed to call a no-ball in the middle and all the bowlers are asked to bowl with short sleeves so umpires can have a good look at the elbows while bowling.[/quote'] I don't know if mcgrath or pollock's name was in that list..however..murli's action has now set a leeway threshold...it will be hard for the umpires to call on what action is against it...the umpires can only come in place if the the 15 degree rule was not there...so for now we have to be more dependent on technology rather then the umpires
f.b.m Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 yea you are correct..its perfectly legal.. the discussion i am having is that 10 years ago the 15 degree rule was like a 2-5 degree rule something like that ..i forget... but when the ICC found out that some of the star players were chucking after the medical tests..they increased the leeway to 15 degrees.... but I don't think that the current leeway will increase anymore since any newcomer will have his action checked on the first sign of suspicion..just like ajmal's action was checked back in australia Yeah the number 15 came up mainly because of Murali I think although it had to be above 10 because either McGrath or Pollock (cant remember) were at 11 or 12 degrees and it would be a bit absurd to ban them. I'm too lazy to dig up the exact reports. Funnily enough Paul Adams was measured to have a 19 degree flex and got away with it completely..
Ultimate_Game Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 I don't know if mcgrath or pollock's name was in that list..however..murli's action has now set a leeway threshold...it will be hard for the umpires to call on what action is against it...the umpires can only come in place if the the 15 degree rule was not there...so for now we have to be more dependent on technology rather then the umpires Yup it was and as per the report McGrath actually bent his elbow more than Murali :haha: The report also said there was only one player who didn't bend his arm and that bowler was Ramnaresh Sarwan :hysterical:
Iconoclast Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Ajmal, ICC has no problem with your action so please shut up and just take wickets.
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 My point was mainly about the reason behind using scientific technology. Whether people with handicaps should be allowed to participate (resulting in hardcore rules being bent), is a separate debate. Will engage in that some other day. Have debated this point since the coming of Murali with different people, and frankly people have polarised opinions on this. So a debate will not take us anywhere. :dontknow: yea thats another debate...should people with physical abnormalities be allowed to play cricket..for instance..the tallest person you could find in the world will probably be drafted by the nba..its unfair to the shorter people in the game...
Old guy Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 lets make it clear.. with current rules ajmal's action is legal now weather that rules are correct or not is different story ..and ajmal has no control over them and cant be blamed for them.. people can disagree or even criticize him but truth is he is playing within the rule.. and if there is loophole in rule then nothing is stopping others form taking advantage from it.. would i like ajmal taking wickets against us .. no..but i will curse at rules not at him :winky:
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Yup it was and as per the report McGrath actually bent his elbow more than Murali :haha: The report also said there was only one player who didn't bend his arm and that bowler was Ramnaresh Sarwan :hysterical: they were probably referring to the flex...murli starts off with a bent elbow and ends with a bent elbow too..so they took the difference between those two which was probably small compared to mcgrath's
Ultimate_Game Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 they were probably referring to the flex...murli starts off with a bent elbow and ends with a bent elbow too..so they took the difference between those two which was probably small compared to mcgrath's They may be looking at whatever they were but can anyone seriously say that Murali's action was cleaner than McGrath's? By the way if someone has already made his mind about something it can be justified any number of ways. As the saying goes "if someone is hell bent on phucking you, he can find 100 different ways of doing so". That report was the same thin. ICC had already opened pandora's box and were simply trying to justify their decision. Maybe they found out one of the many parameters in which Murali was bettr than McGrath and that became the focal point of the report. Anyways the best way to judge someone is with the naked eye and you can immediately see which bowlers' actions are suspect. This is what worked for so many years and ICC should not have intervened.
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 They may be looking at whatever they were but can anyone seriously say that Murali's action was cleaner than McGrath's? By the way if someone has already made his mind about something it can be justified any number of ways. As the saying goes "if someone is hell bent on phucking you' date=' he can find 100 different ways of doing so". That report was the same thin. ICC had already opened pandora's box and were simply trying to justify their decision. Maybe they found out one of the many parameters in which Murali was bettr than McGrath and that became the focal point of the report. Anyways the best way to judge someone is with the naked eye and you can immediately see which bowlers' actions are suspect. [b']This is what worked for so many years and ICC should not have intervened. agree but now they have intervened and new rules are made
Raghav_12 Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 he is saying since there is a permanent bend of 8.5 degrees' date=' he is allowed to bowl 23.5 degrees in total .. so in the end..23-8.5 =15 degrees leeway is justified and he falls within it as per ICC's statement clearing ajmal's quote[/quote'] Technically this may be correct explaination of his statement and as per current ICC rulings, if you start with a original bend of 8.5 degree than you can go up to a bend of 23.5 and can come back to 8.5. So technically nothing wrong if this is what he meant. But in reality, for him change of angle during delivery should be much more than 15. I mean with that kind of action we did not allow guys even in gully cricket when we were kids. I don't understand why he even pretends to rotate the arm and goes through all these formalities of bowling, he can simply thow using all skills through fingers and wrist. I haven't done any analysis, but from the look of things, forget about Doosara and Teesara he shouldn't be allowed even to bowl pehala.
Utalk Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Cricket is not what we grew up watching. This whole business is nonsense that was coming our way after Murali was allowed to chuck his way to 800 test wickets. Ajmal was naive to come out with the quotes. As for some of you coming out with Paki cheat jibes shut it because we don't govern the game and make rules. All the boards including BCCI are to blame for this mess. I say forget 15 degree and let bowlers chuck with force baseball style because that's what it coming to.
rajmarie Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 As Ajmal himself said...his arm bends more when bowling offbreak then doosara....how come Ajmal can say that he bowled a doosara to Sachin in WC SF...when his arm was so much bended :winky: Joka tha ji......bora maat mana
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Technically this may be correct explaination of his statement and as per current ICC rulings, if you start with a original bend of 8.5 degree than you can go up to a bend of 23.5 and can come back to 8.5. So technically nothing wrong if this is what he meant. But in reality, for him change of angle during delivery should be much more than 15. I mean with that kind of action we did not allow guys even in gully cricket when we were kids. I don't understand why he even pretends to rotate the arm and goes through all these formalities of bowling, he can simply thow using all skills through fingers and wrist. I haven't done any analysis, but from the look of things, forget about Doosara and Teesara he shouldn't be allowed even to bowl pehala. you dont know that..what appears on TV does not equal to real life.. TV= 2d image... real life=3d image
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 As Ajmal himself said...his arm bends more when bowling offbreak then doosara....how come Ajmal can say that he bowled a doosara to Sachin in WC SF...when his arm was so much bended :winky: lol he said it was an arm ball not a doosra :winky:
Yoda-esque Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 One doesn't need these hi-tech devices and confusing clauses to determine that he chucks big time.All this bent arm business is a joke.
badmash Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 One doesn't need these hi-tech devices and confusing clauses to determine that he chucks big time.All this bent arm business is a joke. to be honest if the chucking is visible by the naked eye..it should be called but now they have come up with the change of angle theory...which in no way can be calculated by just looking not saying that i agree with this rule..
Yoda-esque Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 to be honest if the chucking is visible by the naked eye..it should be called +1
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