Holysmoke Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 here is maruti sx4 http://www.suzukiauto.com/build_and_price/sx4_sportback it will cost at least 19k in California and is priced at 700k INR in India so its actually cheaper in India, although I havent looked at all the features and even if say its not auto - doesnt have power windows even then its at the worst same price. the sx4 starts at 7 lacs here, and it has it all.. ac, power windows, power steering, etc. But manual gearbox. (thats what sells here, that where the volumes are.)The AT is available only on the top of the line version, and thats 8.5 lacs.
Ram Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 See' date=' the problem here arises when the NRI's start comparing the market with USA. If you compare with other markets such as aus, uk, germany, etc then the prices seem OK. [b']You guys gotta realize that the USA is a very very skewed market. The prices that you get in the US, you dont get anywhere else. That is because of the volumes the US market can offer. And mind you, the US is not the latest in terms of tech. Hmm, You keep saying the same thing and I dont buy that. Its not the car makers here get subsidies from the govt. that enables them to sell cheap. Its the same supply-demand principle that determine price and profit.
Desi Cartman Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 the sx4 starts at 7 lacs here' date=' and it has it all.. ac, power windows, power steering, etc. But manual gearbox. (thats what sells here, that where the volumes are.)The AT is available only on the top of the line version, and thats 8.5 lacs.[/quote'] And even then Amreekans are getting it for same price as Indians , right ? and that was my point.
Holysmoke Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 The City Rover was sold for 6000 pounds in the UK. For arguments' sake, let say the 'luxury' trim of the Indica in 2005 sold for 3 lakh rupees. I know doing a straight currency conversion does not make much sense, but 6000 pounds rought translates to 4.8 lakhs (assuming a ruppe-pound conversion rate of 80) So in terms of absolute value, car that was sold in the U.K was roughly 1.5 times more expensive than the one sold in India. And whats the comparison of purchasing power b/w the Indian consumer and the UK consumer? 1:26! So you price the car 1.5 times for a consumer whose absolute purchasing (in terms of per capita) is 26 times. That is my central point - I am not saying cars are too cheap abroad. I am saying they are simply too expensive in India. What? Indica in 2005 for 3 lac rupees? Are you out of your mind? Make that 5 lacs MINIMUM.
Holysmoke Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Hmm' date=' You keep saying the same thing and I dont buy that. Its not the car makers here get subsidies from the govt. that enables them to sell cheap. Its the same supply-demand principle that determine price and profit.[/quote'] Then please explain to me why a new 5 series costs significantly more in BMW's home market of germany than in does in the US.
Ram Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 What? Indica in 2005 for 3 lac rupees? Are you out of your mind? Make that 5 lacs MINIMUM. Ok good, that bolsters my argument even more then. So in absolute terms, the City Rover UK (with a more powerful engine and better options) was sold cheaper in the UK, than it was sold to the Indian consumer. And their purchasing power is 25 times ours. Go figure!
Yoda-esque Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 You get more car per car here than in India.Its the truth and its all because of market dynamics. On an unrelated note, do they sell cars with CVT engines in India?
Holysmoke Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 You left out the most significant portion of the car in terms of pricing (its engine), but want to do a comparison on the other interior and the add-ons? . Ok, lets talk about the engine. The car I'm talking about has a diesel engine. It's a known fact that diesel engines are a lot more expensive than petrol engines.
Holysmoke Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Ok good, that bolsters my argument even more then. So in absolute terms, the City Rover UK (with a more powerful engine and better options) was sold cheaper in the UK, than it was sold to the Indian consumer. And their purchasing power is 25 times ours. Go figure! Cars are more expensive here in india if you compare them to the per capita income. But not necessarily more expensive if you compare them to international prices.
Holysmoke Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 You get more car per car here than in India.Its the truth and its all because of market dynamics. On an unrelated note, do they sell cars with CVT engines in India? You mean CVT transmissions? Yes. You get some with CVT's, but they are the oldest tech You get normal synchromesh gearboxes as well, but the latest cars (10-12 lac cars like ford fiesta)now have the dual clutch direct shift gearboxes. (the ones that shift gear faster than schumi (1/100 of a sec))
Yoda-esque Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Then please explain to me why a new 5 series costs significantly more in BMW's home market of germany than in does in the US. 2-3 reasons : 1) Sales tax in Germany can be as high as 17-20% 2) Also has very high insurance rates (maybe bcoz of their autobahns?) 3) Not as much variety as the Aamerican market
Yoda-esque Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 You mean CVT transmissions? Yes. You get some with CVT's, but they are the oldest tech You get normal synchromesh gearboxes as well, but the latest cars (10-12 lac cars like ford fiesta)now have the dual clutch direct shift gearboxes. (the ones that shift gear faster than schumi (1/100 of a sec)) Thanks.
Holysmoke Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 2-3 reasons : 1) Sales tax in Germany can be as high as 17-20% 2) Also has very high insurance rates (maybe bcoz of their autobahns?) 3) Not as much variety as the Aamerican market Similarly, cars that are not made in India pay an excise duty of 22% I think. Its lesser for cars less than 4 meters long and having less than 1.2 liter petrol engine or 1.4 liter diesel engine. Cars that are knocked down and assembled in india pay as much as 40% import tax as well (CKD). And completely built imported cars pay a tax of 116-128%. So in one market, you have tata's selling their nano for so cheap, mahindra selling their XUV500 for 10 lacs with mad features, and you have featureless camry's going for 28 lacs.
Lurker Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Lurks - its not a question of whether we need it or not. Its a question of whether Indian consumers get a bang that is loud enough to justify the buck. When I am buying a refrigdgerator, I will buy a 2 door, frost-free one over the single door basic one if they are equally priced, whether i need the 2-door or not. And as Yoda-eque points out, they are marketing Corollas and Camrys as the 'luxury' segments in India. That is how much international (and to an extent domestic) car-makers have taken us for granted. I hate how Indian consumers are treated like we just came out of a cave and the car-makers feel as though we wil be satisfied by any bread-crumbs they throw us. There is a disconnect here Sriram. Corrolla, let alone Camry, IS a luxury car in India. A Corrolla will set you by anything between 15-20K USD depending on whether you want a base model or fully loaded. That translates to somewhere between Rs. 7.5 - 10 lakhs. That is still a lot of money in India mate. Let alone Camry which would be twice that number. If you forget IT and ITES how many regular job makers make that kind of money? I keep bringing up Europe but even in Europe Corrollas and Civics are more respected than in USA. Europe is more like India in that sense. Gas prices are higher (something every consumer keeps in mind), smaller cars require less parking space and like India, in Europe often you have to pay for a parking space much like in India these days where you have to pay extra for parking lot often when you buy a house. So a Corrolla, at current exchange price (everything else remaining same between US and India...which of course it isnt) will set u back by about 8 lakhs, with 1-2 for parking space and high gas prices. I would say for an average India that is a luxury even today. Yes. xxx
Ram Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Then please explain to me why a new 5 series costs significantly more in BMW's home market of germany than in does in the US. Dude, of course I understand that prices are going to be different in different markets based on various factors (raw material, shipping costs, production costs, volume etc). My point is not that cars should be priced the same everywhere. My point is that, for the average Indian per-capita, cars are prepostrously priced. Nowhere in the developed world will you ever find that somebody has to pay their 2 years worth of salary (assuming an average monthly household income of 20,000 rupees) to buy an entry level compact car, like it is the case in India. Ok' date=' lets talk about the engine. The car I'm talking about has a diesel engine. It's a known fact that diesel engines are a lot more expensive than petrol engines.[/quote'] We are arguing the margins when we should be focusing on the bulls-eye.
Holysmoke Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 ]Nowhere in the developed world will you ever find that somebody has to pay their 2 years worth of salary (assuming an average monthly household income of 20,000 rupees) to buy an entry level compact car, like it is the case in India. India is not "developed world".
Ram Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 India is not "developed world". Hmm, i did not say it is. For the nth time - My point is - How are Indians supposed to buy cars when it is so exorbitantly priced relative to their average incomes? when an average Indian household pays their 2 years worth of salary, all they will get is an entry level compact car. Compare that in the US, where a middle class family's 2 years worth of income can get them a top of the range Ferrari. Thats the disparity that i am trying to focus on.
Ram Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 There is a disconnect here Sriram. Corrolla, let alone Camry, IS a luxury car in India. A Corrolla will set you by anything between 15-20K USD depending on whether you want a base model or fully loaded. That translates to somewhere between Rs. 7.5 - 10 lakhs. That is still a lot of money in India mate. Let alone Camry which would be twice that number. If you forget IT and ITES how many regular job makers make that kind of money? I keep bringing up Europe but even in Europe Corrollas and Civics are more respected than in USA. Europe is more like India in that sense. Gas prices are higher (something every consumer keeps in mind), smaller cars require less parking space and like India, in Europe often you have to pay for a parking space much like in India these days where you have to pay extra for parking lot often when you buy a house. So a Corrolla, at current exchange price (everything else remaining same between US and India...which of course it isnt) will set u back by about 8 lakhs, with 1-2 for parking space and high gas prices. I would say for an average India that is a luxury even today. Yes. xxx sure - price-wise, Corollas and Camrys could fall into the 'luxury' segment, but not from the perspective of the car you get. Its a mid-size car for a big-size price.
Yoda-esque Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 There is a disconnect here Sriram. Corrolla, let alone Camry, IS a luxury car in India. A Corrolla will set you by anything between 15-20K USD depending on whether you want a base model or fully loaded. That translates to somewhere between Rs. 7.5 - 10 lakhs. That is still a lot of money in India mate. Let alone Camry which would be twice that number. If you forget IT and ITES how many regular job makers make that kind of money? I keep bringing up Europe but even in Europe Corrollas and Civics are more respected than in USA. Europe is more like India in that sense. Gas prices are higher (something every consumer keeps in mind), smaller cars require less parking space and like India, in Europe often you have to pay for a parking space much like in India these days where you have to pay extra for parking lot often when you buy a house. So a Corrolla, at current exchange price (everything else remaining same between US and India...which of course it isnt) will set u back by about 8 lakhs, with 1-2 for parking space and high gas prices. I would say for an average India that is a luxury even today. Yes. xxx Not sure thats the case Lurker. Import costs and other small cars like the VW,Fiat,Renault,Citroen as well as the BMWs and Mercs mean that Jap cars are still not getting a strong foothold there.Also,most cars in Europe consume Diesel.
Lurker Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 sure - price-wise' date=' Corollas and Camrys could fall into the 'luxury' segment, but not from the perspective of the car you get. Its a mid-size car for a big-size price.[/quote'] Of course. The luxury market that you are thinking of (perhaps) - Mercs, Audis, BMWs etc (forget going further up) doesnt exist in mainstream India. There is a small %age of population who can afford it and they will pay extra cash anyway to get it.
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