surajmal Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Not talking about the imported ones (that is a scam on whole another level) but the Indian made ones. I mean a dabba like i 10 costs 4 lakhs for base models. When you consider the the purchasing power of a rupee (and compare it to prices of similar cars in US and Europe), i10 is easily overpriced by 1.5-2 lakhs (I haven't done hard calculations rather it is a guesstimation) . So are Indian car companies taking advantage of the consumer knowing they don't have much choice but to overpay or is there some other reason for such open theft?
Sir john Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 simple reason our govt dont want more car owners .:cantstop:
Clarke Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 That's too simplistic a view (overpriced by 1.5-2 lacs). One would have to go about all the layers and details like cost of sheet metal, power, labor, excise etc to decide on what costs higher in India or otherwise.
akshayxyz Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 ^ also, any foreign parts/licensed technologies.
Tiger80 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Not talking about the imported ones (that is a scam on whole another level) but the Indian made ones. I mean a dabba like i 10 costs 4 lakhs for base models. When you consider the the purchasing power of a rupee (and compare it to prices of similar cars in US and Europe), i10 is easily overpriced by 1.5-2 lakhs (I haven't done hard calculations rather it is a guesstimation) . So are Indian car companies taking advantage of the consumer knowing they don't have much choice but to overpay or is there some other reason for such open theft? What is the base price of Hyundai i10 in Europe? Here is an article that mention mention i10 price at 6495 pounds means 5 lakh rupees in 2008 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/12/motoring
surajmal Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 Most of these Indian made cars have rudimentary electronic/electromechanical parts that came in the western markets decade and a half ago. (lets focus on the base models here: components such as GPS don't come standard) So if they have to license manufacture those, its a shame. Production and acquisition of raw materials should be cheap in India (since there is a export levy). Labour should be extremely cheap (and as a result fabrication). Excise tax is a contributing factor (but how major is it really).
Tiger80 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Excise tax is a contributing factor (but how major is it really). Excise tax on cars is 8%
surajmal Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 What is the base price of Hyundai i10 in Europe? Here is an article that mention mention i10 price at 6495 pounds means 5 lakh rupees in 2008 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/12/motoring Europe is about 9-10k Euros. Indian rupee purchasing power is 2.5-3 (so we should be paying 2 lakhs at most for base models). My assumption is that basic cars such as suzuki swift, i10 etc can be entire sourced in India.
mhr123 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 No .. i don't think so ... In India cars are much much cheaper than the other parts of the world... most of it is due to parts getting manufactured in india where the making cost + labor is very cheap.
gs Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 No .. i don't think so ... In India cars are much much cheaper than the other parts of the world... most of it is due to parts getting manufactured in india where the making cost + labor is very cheap. Not really sure about the Nanos and ilk, but most cars are horribly overpriced in India in comparison to the US. Toyota Camry which is a desi favorite in the US ranges any where between $21.5K to $29K which roughly translates to 11-15 lakhs in INR. The same car costs between 21.5-23.8 lakhs in India, which is almost twice as expensive!! Not to mention the ones being sold in India are never the latest models and dont come with all the bells and whistles that a US model would. Why are the Indian consumers being shafted inspite of paying a premium price?!?
Lurker Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Not really sure about the Nanos and ilk' date=' but most cars are horribly overpriced in India in comparison to the US. Toyota Camry which is a desi favorite in the US ranges any where between $21.5K to $29K which roughly translates to 11-15 lakhs in INR. The same car costs between 21.5-23.8 lakhs in India, which is almost twice as expensive!! Not to mention the ones being sold in India are never the latest models and dont come with all the bells and whistles that a US model would. Why are the Indian consumers being shafted inspite of paying a premium price?!?[/quote'] It very much depends on where the car is manufactured and what are the tarrifs around it. US car cost is often cheaper because most of these cars are made at home, and tarrifs are minimal. You cant survive without cars in US. In Europe you can and tarrifs are often put to discourage (in a way) buying cars. You can also think of cars as a neccessity in US and a bit of luxury in Europe. A quick online estimate on Autotrader.com for US and UK would show the price difference. Since Toyota Camry didnt pop up in UK I looked up for RAV4. 24K-29K in British Pounds while 24-30K in US dollars. Considering the foreign exchange price you would think Brits are getting royally shafted, pun intentional. By the way, the house I bought in Phoenix for the price I wouldnt be able to afford a studio flat in Bombay/Delhi/Poona today, so lets quit complaining. Prices are different based on demand and supply, not Indians getting shafted at everything. xxx
Stuge Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I'm sure it has to do with taxation . how every part of the car is taxed and later you pay additional taxes when you buy it[later half includes road tax ] .
Ram Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Indians pay prepostrous amounts for cars (relative to the per capita income), but the worst part is that the trim options that are made available are a joke. The basic models have no power steering, no air-conditioning, no central locking, no power-windows, no CD player, no ANYTHING. And we have to pay a good 4 - 5 lakhs for this garbage. Since when is having a air-con in your car considered a luxury? Not just that, the engine options are a shame on the average petrol head. We have compact cars with 60, 70, 80 bhp?! WTF! Even a biycle should have more power than that! These days, if you want a mid-size sedan with at least the basic trim options and a reasonable engine, it costs you ATLEAST 8-10 lakhs, while in the US, you can get an above average mid-size sedan for $25k - $28k. Thats almost EXACTLY the same price.
Lurker Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Indians pay prepostrous amounts for cars (relative to the per capita income)' date=' but the worst part is that the trim options that are made available are a joke. [b']The basic models have no power steering, no air-conditioning, no central locking, no power-windows, no CD player, no ANYTHING. And we have to pay a good 4 - 5 lakhs for this garbage. Since when is having a air-con in your car considered a luxury? Not just that, the engine options are a shame on the average petrol head. We have compact cars with 60, 70, 80 bhp?! WTF! Even a biycle should have more power than that! These days, if you want a mid-size sedan with at least the basic trim options and a reasonable engine, it costs you ATLEAST 8-10 lakhs, while in the US, you can get an above average mid-size sedan for $25k - $28k. Thats almost EXACTLY the same price. Some of that is considered a luxury even in Europe. Air-conditioning for example. Of course these days things are changing but if you travel to Europe dont assume all cars have a/c a la US.
Holysmoke Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Indians pay prepostrous amounts for cars (relative to the per capita income)' date=' but the worst part is that the trim options that are made available are a joke. The basic models have no power steering, no air-conditioning, no central locking, no power-windows, no CD player, no ANYTHING. And we have to pay a good 4 - 5 lakhs for this garbage. Since when is having a air-con in your car considered a [i']luxury? Not just that, the engine options are a shame on the average petrol head. We have compact cars with 60, 70, 80 bhp?! WTF! Even a biycle should have more power than that! These days, if you want a mid-size sedan with at least the basic trim options and a reasonable engine, it costs you ATLEAST 8-10 lakhs, while in the US, you can get an above average mid-size sedan for $25k - $28k. Thats almost EXACTLY the same price. Ram, I would disagree on some of the points there. Trim options out here are not really lesser than the ones in the US. Infact, I remember the 7th gen accord here in India had significantly more bells and whistles than the one in the US. Similarly, the civic here in india had more features than the ones in the US. Do not compare prices with the US. The US is a skewed market. BMW's cost lesser in the US than they do in germany! If you are talking about small cars, then understand that the small/low cost car market does not really exist in the USA. You need to compare that to the UK/Europe. Trim levels on cars in India and UK are pretty similar. It is really difficult now to get a car without Air conditioning. I think there would be less than 5 car models that sell without an AC. Power steering is also hard not to find nowadays. I dont think there would be many cars without that. Realize that the way the market works here is very diff to the way the market works in the US. Here people prefer buying the car without the stereo, power windows, power locks, etc and get it put from outside. That way they can choose what kind of a stereo head unit they want, what amp, speakers, tweeters, what kind of foglamps, what level of car security/autocop/central locking they want etc. You must be thinking.. what is there to choose in car security/locking etc. Well, there is a lot. For example, these days you get autocop systems which are connected to an immobilizer. You can remotely turn off/on you car, read the location via gps etc. And all this isnt that expensive (6-8k for the whole deal, including central locking.) The company would charge 25k atleast. Talking about horsepower, yes there are many cars in the 75-80 horsepower game. And there is a reason for that. The government gives a lot of excise concessions to cars that are less than 4 meters and have smaller than 1.2 liter engines. I seriously feel that is quite enough. And I have been a bhp freak for a few years. You dont really go that fast in india, what you need here is torque for quicker acceleration. I'm actually in love with the new diesels. Try driving the swift diesel/ritz diesel. They're more fun to drive than the civic/accord/passat.
Yoda-esque Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 ^ Agree.. Besides some of Honda/Toyota/Nissan's lowest trims didnt come with AC/Power stuff here in the States up until a couple of years back as well. Hyundai was a game changer last year by including Bluetooth /ipod and everything power as standard which has forced the 3 japanese automakers to play catch up. A Maruti over Toyota/Honda on Indian roads anyday.
kabira Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 USA consumer has always been spoiled one compare to UK for example. When I was student and lived with roommates..we had everything 1. TV 2. DVD player 3. Furniture 4. Spacious apartment, 4 ppl were comfortable living there 5. Even had a car after 2 years. Compare it with another classmate in UK...They did not have most of stuff we had...and they were living in less spacious flat etc. Similar thing for a fresh couple coming to USA on L1 or H1. As soon as they get their first salary, they will load their apartment with all stuff. They infact were able to afford 2 BHK apartments...their counterpart used to share flats with another couple. Well USA consumer has been spoiled I guess and they are paying big time right now..
Ram Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Ram, I would disagree on some of the points there. Trim options out here are not really lesser than the ones in the US. Infact, I remember the 7th gen accord here in India had significantly more bells and whistles than the one in the US. Similarly, the civic here in india had more features than the ones in the US. Do not compare prices with the US. The US is a skewed market. BMW's cost lesser in the US than they do in germany! If you are talking about small cars, then understand that the small/low cost car market does not really exist in the USA. You need to compare that to the UK/Europe. Trim levels on cars in India and UK are pretty similar. It is really difficult now to get a car without Air conditioning. I think there would be less than 5 car models that sell without an AC. Power steering is also hard not to find nowadays. I dont think there would be many cars without that. Realize that the way the market works here is very diff to the way the market works in the US. Here people prefer buying the car without the stereo, power windows, power locks, etc and get it put from outside. That way they can choose what kind of a stereo head unit they want, what amp, speakers, tweeters, what kind of foglamps, what level of car security/autocop/central locking they want etc. You must be thinking.. what is there to choose in car security/locking etc. Well, there is a lot. For example, these days you get autocop systems which are connected to an immobilizer. You can remotely turn off/on you car, read the location via gps etc. And all this isnt that expensive (6-8k for the whole deal, including central locking.) The company would charge 25k atleast. Talking about horsepower, yes there are many cars in the 75-80 horsepower game. And there is a reason for that. The government gives a lot of excise concessions to cars that are less than 4 meters and have smaller than 1.2 liter engines. I seriously feel that is quite enough. And I have been a bhp freak for a few years. You dont really go that fast in india, what you need here is torque for quicker acceleration. I'm actually in love with the new diesels. Try driving the swift diesel/ritz diesel. They're more fun to drive than the civic/accord/passat. Dude, dont compare the highest-trimmed Toyota Camry in India versus the highest trimmed Toyota Camry in the US. Of course they are going to have equivalent options. Compare the lowest trimmed toyota camry in India versus the lowest trimmed Camry in the US and I can bet you the US version will have overall better quality. I still remember Hyundai introducong the 3 cylinder diesel version of the Accent in India in the early 2000s. They have the balls to think a car with such an appalling engine will fly in India. And its not just the new cars that i am talking about. My room-mate had a 96 Toyota Camry that had options that would eat 90% of the cars on the Indian roads today for breakfast, lunch and dinner - It had 200 bhp V6 engine that packed a punch, air-con, power steering, cruise control, central locking, stereo player, power windows and the likes.. how many cars in India TODAY can compare with that? I understand that there are various reasons that go into deciding all of this, but my general point is that the Indian consumer gets shafted beyond belief.
Holysmoke Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Dude, dont compare the highest-trimmed Toyota Camry in India versus the highest trimmed Toyota Camry in the US. Of course they are going to have equivalent options. Compare the lowest trimmed toyota camry in India versus the lowest trimmed Camry in the US and I can bet you the US version will have overall better quality. I still remember Hyundai introducong the 3 cylinder diesel version of the Accent in India in the early 2000s. They have the balls to think a car with such an appalling engine will fly in India. And its not just the new cars that i am talking about. My room-mate had a 96 Toyota Camry that had options that would eat 90% of the cars on the Indian roads today for breakfast, lunch and dinner - It had 200 bhp V6 engine that packed a punch, air-con, power steering, cruise control, central locking, stereo player, power windows and the likes.. how many cars in India TODAY can compare with that? I understand that there are various reasons that go into deciding all of this, but my general point is that the Indian consumer gets shafted beyond belief. So, lets talk about that accord. Do you know that the accord came in only 1 trim? Manual or Automatic, thats all you had to choose. If you look at the honda accord today, there are no trim levels. There is just manual, auto, or v6. Look at the superb. There's manual or diesel, Auto or manual. If you are talking about tech, then you need to realize that things have changed a lot here. India is turning into a major market now. The superb, that came out in 2008/9 has a 7 speed dual dry clutch direct shift gearbox along with a turbocharged petrol engine. Good luck finding that for anything less than 50,000$ in the USA. I still remember Hyundai introducong the 3 cylinder diesel version of the Accent in India in the early 2000s. They have the balls to think a car with such an appalling engine will fly in India. Actually that CRDI engine is an absolute stonker. They messed it up by removing a cylinder, what with the diesel levels at the time being sh!tworthy, but just take a look at how much that engine sells nowadays. I understand that there are various reasons that go into deciding all of this, but my general point is that the Indian consumer gets shafted beyond belief.True to an extent. Indian consumer probably overpays for the cars, but its not as easy as comparing it to the USA prices.
Ram Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 If you are talking about tech, then you need to realize that things have changed a lot here. India is turning into a major market now. The superb, that came out in 2008/9 has a 7 speed dual dry clutch direct shift gearbox along with a turbocharged petrol engine. Good luck finding that for anything less than 50,000$ in the USA. . The Hyundai Sonata US version has a trim with the following options - 2.4 L Turbocharged 275 BHP engine that goes from 0 to 100 kph in 6 seconds, Panoramic sunroof, dual climate control, Satellite Navigation, Leather Seats, iPod connectivity, Air-con, cruise control, power steering, copious leg-room, disc brakes, keyless entry, power windows etc and guess what you have to pay for this - $31,000. You find me car in India that has all this, but sells for less than 20 lakhs.
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