Experts comment on Sachin's retirement (Kapil, Ganguly and Vengsarkar)

[Lurker]

Show me one thread were seriously any one has discussed Ponting Vs. Lara or Lara Vs. Inzi or Mark Waugh Vs Yousuf. Each and every thread the other person is Sachin being compared right from year 1990. Now if a person who is fan of Sachin and he thinks Sachin is the best batsman of this generation obviously he will come defending this man whats wrong in that. You open a thread of comparing batsman of this generation other than Sachin and you will see lots of views, Pareshani fans ki nahi hai, pareshani haters ki psychology se hai, Again 3 out of 25 matches he has played and swords are out sack him this is you guys obsession with Sachin not of his fans. If you were not a hater, you would have even not noticed unless 2 or 3 series failure would have come for this great man.

Thats how you look at it. And thats how ignorant you, and other bhakts are. There have been many threads on other great players. There was a section called ICF Hall of Fame where often articles about great players were written. You can find some there. I wrote a few myself, including one on Mohinder Amarnath. Now is it my fault you show years later or just show up in Sachin thread? As for his performance bhaiya he is 0-8 in recent Tests. That never happened in Indian cricket. Stop shooting the messenger and get rid of the budhao. Hows that for hate?:((

[The Outsider]

Outy' date=' do you want all three (SRT, RD and Lax) to retire at the same time, i.e. now?[/quote'] Retire or dropped - I don't want to see any of them stepping on a cricket field representing the Indian team ever again. There has to be some accountability for 16 consecutive batting failures. In addition, move Sehwag to the middle order and put him on a final notice.

[ganeshran]

Yeah. Look, you can always concentrate on becoming an argumentative folk and try to nitpick. OR you can start accepting that broadly speaking fans are getting heavily polarised and very insulated in their own knowledge and patronage of players. And yes give me a guy who opens a thread on Alan Border or Herschelle Gibbs or Chris Cairns than someone who shows up routinely in a Sachin thread. But thats just me, you can of course be different. :two_thumbs_up:

I am not nitpicking, just found your definition of a "true cricket fan" ludicrous. Of course fans are heavily polarized for and against certain players more than others. There are some who are blind in their appreciation for SRT and there also some who are blind in their hatred for him. Both sides end up contributing to polarize the middle ground.

[Khalpat]

Here goes my attempt to make you and others understand. Let's take the case of test matches first: -- To be frank he has been second top scorer in these two away series were you are calling him a failure but then also I will also go to the extend and say he should retire in this format not because he is a failure but because our future in Test really looks very gloomy after these 3. but since this thread is for ODI, I will talk about them. Now, let's talk about ODIs: 1. All teams focus on the biggest tournament in ODIs - the World Cup and gear their preparation towards it. India had taken the tough decision to drop Ganguly and Dravid within a year of the '07 World Cup because it was clear that their chances of playing and performing in 2011 were not very high. The chances of Tendulkar playing the 2015 World Cup are very slim. ---If everything is for WC2015, why do you care for this and small series. FYI, in 1992 when the WC happened in Aus, Indian team was there in those conditions 3 months before the WC and we did not even reached SF. And according to you if Mukund or Rahane play today 3 yr before 2015 WC here they will win us the WC. :giggle: 2. Rahane has made a decent start to his career. He played the English fast bowling attack with comfort and there is a strong possibility of him being a regular in our ODI squad when the next World Cup is played in Australia. --Sure but why only in place of arguably greatest ODI player of all time, why not in place of Sehwag, tried and tested failure in overseas conditions 3. Rahane is not an out and out striker suited to the 300-350 kind of pitches seen in India. His utility is on these kind of pitches where 225-275 tend to be good scores. Would have been an ideal scenario to try him out. --Sure but why only in place of arguably greatest ODI player of all time, why not in place of Sehwag, tried and tested failure in overseas conditions 4. If Tendulkar does want to play ODIs, he should play most of them. It's patently unfair to drop players like Rahane who put in a decent start to their careers because one fine day Tendulkar decides to play some series. --Again Tendulkar did not decided one fine day to play a series but he decided not to play a series which coincidentally gave Rahane the chance to play so you and everybody should be greatful to Sachin for giving the youngster 5. On current evidence, Tendulkar is not even performing to some exceptional level that Rahane would not have been able to perform. Rahane averaged 30+ at a strike rate of 85+ in England - surely he could have done at least that much here in Australia. I am repeating again only 4 out of last 25 ODI he has played itne matches averagely barish se dhul jaate hain, so stop making this man responsible for everything. Rahane got chance and he will surely but why again for this man why not Sehwag or Gambhir

[kiran83cricfan]

Tendulkar should play till end of this year...

[ganeshran]

Retire or dropped - I don't want to see any of them stepping on a cricket field representing the Indian team ever again. There has to be some accountability for 16 consecutive batting failures. In addition' date=' move Sehwag to the middle order and put him on a final notice.[/quote'] The problem is that brings a completely rookie middle order. 4 batsmen who would have played less than 10 tests followed by Dhoni who is also not a good batsmen and then starts the tail. Sehwag wont be moved down the order in the subcontinent where he plays well in the opening position. One batsmen from the big 3 needs to be there. Its obviously not going to be VVS. It could be either RD or SRT but given his record, SRT is likely to be preferred unless he hangs up his boots before that

[Lurker]

I am not nitpicking, just found your definition of a "true cricket fan" ludicrous.

Oh I can live with that.

Of course fans are heavily polarized for and against certain players more than others. There are some who are blind in their appreciation for SRT and there also some who are blind in their hatred for him. Both sides end up contributing to polarize the middle ground.

So maybe thats your mistake??? Which Indian fan would HATE Sachin??? Just because one is a critic does not mean that he is hating. He may actually be more right than the fans, ever thought about that? Secondly, not sure how long you have been watching cricket but which Indian cricketer brought such blind fans?? It seems that Sachin's fan knowledge is much the same as the little master, matric fail :--D

[Lurker]

The problem is that brings a completely rookie middle order. 4 batsmen who would have played less than 10 tests followed by Dhoni who is also not a good batsmen and then starts the tail. Sehwag wont be moved down the order in the subcontinent where he plays well in the opening position.

Good thing you were not Bob Simpson and Alan Border in 80s or all the budhaos would be playing for Australia till Kingdom come as well.

[ganeshran]

So maybe thats your mistake??? Which Indian fan would HATE Sachin??? Just because one is a critic does not mean that he is hating. He may actually be more right than the fans, ever thought about that? Secondly, not sure how long you have been watching cricket but which Indian cricketer brought such blind fans?? It seems that Sachin's fan knowledge is much the same as the little master, matric fail :--D

By the same token, just because one is a fan doesnt mean one is bhakt or fanatic either. The problem is you are ready to clump all SRT fans in the same mould readily, but claim the sobriquet of a "critic" inspite of making the same tired arguments over and over again in every thread since 2007, Every player has some fans who are blind to their star's failures. SRT has more than anyone else because he has been playing for so long. In the age of the internet, this looks more pronounced than ever before.

[Lurker]

By the same token, just because one is a fan doesnt mean one is bhakt or fanatic either. The problem is you are ready to clump all SRT fans in the same mould readily, but claim the sobriquet of a "critic" inspite of making the same tired arguments over and over again in every thread since 2007 Every player has some fans who are blind to their star's failures. SRT has more than anyone else because he has been playing for so long. In the age of the internet, this looks more pronounced than ever before.

You could have clarified this in the first post and saved us both some time??? You were never inferred as a bhakt or a cheerleader. Not my mistake if you decided to club yourself with them. By the by my stance on Sachin has been explained many times by me. Why is it my fault that you dont seen to understand it and yet follow it in every thread?? I find it ridiculous that you find my arguments tiring and yet speak about it quite often. Why tire yourself needlessly? :winky:

[ganeshran]

You could have clarified this in the first post and saved us both some time??? You were never inferred as a bhakt or a cheerleader. Not my mistake if you decided to club yourself with them.

never clubbed myself with anyone :dontknow:

By the by my stance on Sachin has been explained many times by me. Why is it my fault that you dont seen to understand it and yet follow it in every thread?? I find it ridiculous that you find my arguments tiring and yet speak about it quite often. Why tire yourself needlessly? :winky:

If the same point repeated in two threads is speaking quite often, imagine the same thing repeated in almost every thread over the last 3-4 years :--D

[Late Cut]

By the same token, just because one is a fan doesnt mean one is bhakt or fanatic either. The problem is you are ready to clump all SRT fans in the same mould readily, but claim the sobriquet of a "critic" inspite of making the same tired arguments over and over again in every thread since 2007, Every player has some fans who are blind to their star's failures. SRT has more than anyone else because he has been playing for so long. In the age of the internet, this looks more pronounced than ever before.

Naah, its cultural. Look at our 50 year old leading men pretending to be 20, ancient politicians, etc. Hero worship is ingrained in indian culture; even if one is no longer performing.

[Lurker]

If the same point repeated in two threads is speaking quite often, imagine the same thing repeated in almost every thread over the last 3-4 years :--D

Then don't. (imagine) Stay clear of tiring your grey cells say I :--D would save us both some time :two_thumbs_up:

[ganeshran]

Naah' date=' its cultural. Look at our 50 year old leading men pretending to be 20, ancient politicians, etc. Hero worship is ingrained in indian culture; even if one is no longer performing.[/quote'] Hero worship is certainly there, sometimes to an extent where criticism is met with anger. But dont you think we also go the other way too (or maybe its not reserved for everyone), I mean national icons like Gandhi and Nehru are routinely criticized by the public, dont think there is so much criticism for founding fathers in most nations less so in the subcontinent where personality cults rule the roost.

[ganeshran]

Stay clear of tiring your grey cells say I :--D would save us both some time :two_thumbs_up:

word :--D

[Lurker]

Naah' date=' its cultural. Look at our 50 year old leading men pretending to be 20, ancient politicians, etc. Hero worship is ingrained in indian culture; even if one is no longer performing.[/quote'] Hold your horses on that one ace. This hero worship thing may turn out differently. Increasingly in the West the complain is around students disrespecting teachers, kids thinking of their parents as friends (and parents wanting to be so ) etc. Much as I agree with you about ancient politicians, dont quite agree with the whole cultural criticism. :desiman:

[Khalpat]

Thats how you look at it. And thats how ignorant you, and other bhakts are. There have been many threads on other great players. There was a section called ICF Hall of Fame where often articles about great players were written. You can find some there. I wrote a few myself, including one on Mohinder Amarnath. Now is it my fault you show years later or just show up in Sachin thread? ((

Arey aap mardwan burbak hain ka. Hum kahat hain ki were is the comparison thread and you are talking about an article about Amarnath. Mohinder amarnath has been one of my most fav player infact after Vishy and Azhar I liked Amarnath style of batting the best, I always remember watching episodes of Play Cricket with Mohinder Amarnath on DD. This mans cricketing knowledge was immense but again what this has to do with our topic. You compare Mohinder Vs Vengsarkar and see I can provide my inputs there. But no you will start a thread Amarnath Vs Sachin and then if I say Sachin is better you will start laughing and say look this Bhakth.

As for his performance bhaiya he is 0-8 in recent Tests. That never happened in Indian cricket. Stop shooting the messenger and get rid of the budhao. Hows that for hate?:((

Not he entire Indian team is 0-8 in Tests, bhaiya aapko WC win ka credit dena tha aur no 1 ka to poori team ko and when we talk about 0-8 rubbing its due to this man and you call me and others Bhakth. waise bhakth hona bahut behtar hota hai nafrat karne ke comparison main.

[Late Cut]

Hold your horses on that one ace. This hero worship thing may turn out differently. Increasingly in the West the complain is around students disrespecting teachers, kids thinking of their parents as friends (and parents wanting to be so ) etc. Much as I agree with you about ancient politicians, dont quite agree with the whole cultural criticism. :desiman:

Respect and hero worship are not dependent on each other. Ideally, be it work or sport, the systems that lend to continued success, and positive change are meritocracies, which evaluates performance more than giving other considerations, such as seniority more value. I have heard and seen this larger issue of seniority and hero worship at play in the workplace and have had to have been part of massive retraining processes for entire indian arms of firms because of the negative impact of misplaced priorities due to this factor.

[Lurker]

Arey aap mardwan burbak hain ka. Hum kahat hain ki were is the comparison thread and you are talking about an article about Amarnath. Mohinder amarnath has been one of my most fav player infact after Vishy and Azhar I liked Amarnath style of batting the best, I always remember watching episodes of Play Cricket with Mohinder Amarnath on DD. This mans cricketing knowledge was immense but again what this has to do with our topic. You compare Mohinder Vs Vengsarkar and see I can provide my inputs there. But no you will start a thread Amarnath Vs Sachin and then if I say Sachin is better you will start laughing and say look this Bhakth.

Arre bhaiya pahla baat to yeh ke comparison thread hamare liye hai hi nahin. Aap usmein aur logon ke saath lagein prem se. Yeh to Sachin waalon ki mahima hai ki everything becomes x vs Sachin. Personally only comparison I participate in, rather routinely, is the great all-rounders of 80. Baaki I am happy to celebrate David Gower as much as Dileep Vengsarkar. Ab if comparisons are your cup of tea you should mingle with those who are like minded kahe ko idhar muhn kaala kar rahe ho hamare saath :nervous:

Not he entire Indian team is 0-8 in Tests, bhaiya aapko WC win ka credit dena tha aur no 1 ka to poori team ko and when we talk about 0-8 rubbing its due to this man and you call me and others Bhakth. waise bhakth hona bahut behtar hota hai nafrat karne ke comparison main.

Theek hai Prabhu. Aage se hum har series ke before and after aake haajiri baja ke jaayenge. Aur kuch maalik?

[Lurker]

Respect and hero worship are not dependent on each other. Ideally' date=' be it work or sport, the systems that lend to continued success, and positive change are meritocracies, which evaluates performance more than giving other considerations, such as seniority more value. I have heard and seen this larger issue of seniority and hero worship at play in the workplace and have had to have been part of massive retraining processes for entire indian arms of firms because of the negative impact of misplaced priorities due to this factor.[/quote'] This is more of a sociological debate now, isnt it? Not disagreeing with some of your points just asking to keep perspective. For instance, what bothers me most from Indians(cricketers or professionals) is that often there is a lack of responsibility. It is always somebody else's job. When it comes to fans it becomes rather apparent. No other cricketing nation defends its player as much as we do. Aussies will let Ponting retire, just as they let Mcgrath, Warne, Gilly and Hayden to retire but raise the question of Sachin retiring and you are well equipped to lose your passport.