Crookbond Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 ehhh I changed goal post ? :blink: Sorry but I would just avoid replying to you because in the end you would abuse if I don't agree with *ALL* of your viewpoints.
vvvslaxman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 ohh from Always sucks to ... sucks in wonly last 3 yrs in a matter of one post ehhh ? :cantstop: ... chalo how is winning 11 out of 16 matches where we put up 270+ totals translate into always sucks ? or how about this one ( defending 6 out of 7 times we score between 250 and 288 i.e one less than the total we failed to defend vs BD ) http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_fielding_first=1;class=2;continent=2;filter=advanced;orderby=start;runsmax2=288;runsmin2=250;runsval2=runs;spanmin1=23+Mar+2009;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team or this ( 240 to 288 ) : http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_fielding_first=1;class=2;continent=2;filter=advanced;orderby=start;runsmax2=288;runsmin2=240;runsval2=runs;spanmin1=23+Mar+2009;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team or this ( 225 - 275 ) http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_fielding_first=1;class=2;continent=2;filter=advanced;orderby=start;runsmax2=275;runsmin2=225;runsval2=runs;spanmin1=23+Mar+2009;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team or how about this ( ANY total less than 275 which is far less than the 289 ) where we won 6 out of 10 ? http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_fielding_first=1;class=2;continent=2;filter=advanced;orderby=start;runsmax2=275;runsval2=runs;spanmin1=23+Mar+2009;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team Mind you all within the last 3 yrs ... your magic criteria .. which nobody other than you knows how you arrived at ... but whatever. Little thing that you don't know is.. India almost lost after scoring 418 runs.. Srilanka was 338 for 2 in 38 overs.. Zaheer and Nehra bowled brilliantly to earn India win by 4 runs. Against SA in world cup, Against England in world cup,Even Bangladesh made 289 in the world cup against us. Against the same Bangladesh when Sehwag got going India reached 375. If you can believe Irfan/Praveen/Dinda as bowlers are far superior to Tendulakr as batsmen.. your argument is valid. :cantstop: If you believe that.. then Sachin has to call it quits.
vvvslaxman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Sorry but I would just avoid replying to you because in the end you would abuse if I don't agree with *ALL* of your viewpoints. Abuse? he can abuse all he wants.. A seflish innigs is a selfish innings. He can't change with stat.. Crawling through mud from 30th over to 43rd over cannot easily be forgotten. On par with Ganguly's pathetic effort against Pakistan in 2005.
Dravid_TheWall Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Mushfiqur Rahim wasgoing to target our bowlers.. not our batsmen.. doesn't that tell you.. our bowling sucks all the time. Even with zaheer we allowed England to make 338. On subcontinental pitches our bowling always sucks. Only strength is to bat the opposition out. We were in tremendous position to do that. We let it go... Our bowlers get lucky once in a while like defending 303 successfully :cantstop: . This is a third string bowling attack.. not even second string attack.. When ever our first string itself sucks it is foolish to expect a lot from third string bowlers. Exactly :two_thumbs_up: As you say even if ZK, Nehra and Munaf, even then sometimes we flop. With this attack :cantstop: Anyway all that is IRRELEVANT. The point is that the situation that Tendulkar was in with Kohli, you never think "we have enough." You look at how many wickets you have left and overs and then take a risk. The onslaught should have come earlier. No batsmen think "I think we have enough now, let us take it easy" which was these Tindu lovers are saying :hysterical: Anyone who has even watched a few games would know that, which is why it is funny seeing Tindu lovers defend him :finger: You score as many as you can IRRESPECTIVE of your bowlers, but with our bowlers there is even more pressure for our batsmen to score more. 290 is not a safe target as I said in CB series we just don't have the attack to defend under 300 regularly, even v Bang. If Nehra, ZK, Santh and Munaf there, might be different. But not these no skills bowlers, they are club level.
Crookbond Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Abuse? he can abuse all he wants.. A seflish innigs is a selfish innings. He can't change with stat.. Crawling through mud from 30th over to 43rd over cannot easily be forgotten. On par with Ganguly's pathetic effort against Pakistan in 2005. To add VVS, if you see the saner people around no one's attributing all the blame to Tendulkar (including me) and I've stated that very explicity. http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1876849&postcount=971 http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1876930&postcount=986 However, I don't agree to the fact that Sachin did NOT jeopardize our team's chances to get a good score. Also, the selfish/disgrace comment was just for 1 Sachin innings against Bangladesh and not on his career. Most people (so called haters) have also agreed that he's arguably one of the best cricketers of all time and his era. After showering so many praises and calling things as one can see, the people who raise a slightest of finger are labeled "jihadis" (read haters). I'm sure there are some people like those around but as I've repeatedly said earlier, reading a few posts you can make out those guys.
vvvslaxman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 From next match onwards.. let us delcare once we get to 280 :cantstop: then say... if you can't defend 280.. what the bowlers are for.. Ganguly was under so much criticism after India lost in the following match http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64941.html India made 315.. We only had 15 overs of powerplay then. You could have always blamed bowlers there. Can't you even defend 315. But blame squarely fell on Ganguly. Anyone who watched the match would know in what context the blame fell on Ganguly. ..
Raghav_12 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I think, this is some meaningless discussion. You would never know what is enough and what is not. Every team tries to maximize the score but that doesn't mean they try to hit out on each ball. Sometimes you are in zone and plays pretty agressively while other times, you don't show that much urgency. This is not the lowest score achieved with only 4-5 wickets fallen. So, trying to say that we shouldn't have targetted for more than 290, is not tenable. But on the other hand to say that in good innings player show sense of urgency all the time is also not true. Kohli played a great innings against Pak, but he also paused for his 100, quite clearly. (I would love to see if anybody contest that point). Why we didn't try to chase down Pakistan's target with bonus point? We had shown few days ago only that a target in excess of 300 can be chased within 40 overs. If we had done we would have put our qualificaton for final beyond any doubt. Whole point is that, no player can show same sense of urgency all the time. Things are not as black and white as people would love to see here, particularly when SRT is involved. All this noise on Sachin's is innings is because of excessive scrutiny the we put him under.
vvvslaxman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 So we learn new things on ICF ... and today we learnt that winning 6 out of 10 matches while defending scores under 275 means that our bowling sucks all the time .. we also discovered that the bowling is considered sucky even if it has managed to defend 270ish totals against Aussies. :cheer: While you are at it learn that it is pathetic to slow the run rate after 30 overs inexplicably when you have 9 wickets in hand which included power hitters like Raina, Dhoni.
vvvslaxman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I think, this is some meaningless discussion. You would never know what is enough and what is not. Every team tries to maximize the score but that doesn't mean they try to hit out on each ball. Sometimes you are in zone and plays pretty agressively while other times, you don't show that much urgency. This is not the lowest score achieved with only 4-5 wickets fallen. So, trying to say that we shouldn't have targetted for more than 290, is not tenable. But on the other hand to say that in good innings player show sense of urgency all the time is also not true. Kohli played a great innings against Pak, but he also paused for his 100, quite clearly. (I would love to see if anybody contest that point). Why we didn't try to chase down Pakistan's target with bonus point? We had shown few days ago only that a target in excess of 300 can be chased within 40 overs. If we had done we would have put our qualificaton for final beyond any doubt. Whole point is that, no player can show same sense of urgency all the time. Things are not as black and white as people would love to see here, particularly when SRT is involved. All this noise on Sachin's is innings is because of excessive scrutiny the we put him under. Yes.. at the same time no player should not stall an innings for 13 overs also. There has to be a cut off limit for how slow he can go. You are allowed to go slow when you have lost 5 or 6 wickets. But with 9 wickets in hand logically you should step on the gas. If you just look at the context of the match ignoring all the blah blah stats anyone can easily say India paused unnecessarily. Tendulkar was one of the major reason why the innings paused. it is no rocket science to figure out.
Old guy Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 strange boss bhai trying to prove our bowling is good but blaming bowlers against bangladesh
vvvslaxman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 strange boss bhai trying to prove our bowling is good but blaming bowlers against bangladesh To prove his point he would even say "We have the best bowling attack in the world" while we all know what kind of state our bowling is in.
vvvslaxman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 So many players ganguly, dravid, dhoni were unanimously criticized when they were slow in a specific situation. Dont think there were this much protest.
Old guy Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 To prove his point he would even say "We have the best bowling attack in the world" while we all know what kind of state our bowling is in. like our batting is any better... dont let this asia cup on flat subcontinent tracks forget u abt wht happened in last 2 away tours only kohli seemed good enough in tests... rest of batsman cant even think of staying on wicket for 1 session!
vvvslaxman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 The limit set by his Jaminess ? :giggle: If you are saying this to a Dravid fanatic i would agree. . i have criticized Dravid more than you have.. No use in being a fan without knowing the weaknesses of your favorite player.
Raghav_12 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Yes.. at the same time no player should not stall an innings for 13 overs also. There has to be a cut off limit for how slow he can go. You are allowed to go slow when you have lost 5 or 6 wickets. But with 9 wickets in hand logically you should step on the gas. If you just look at the context of the match ignoring all the blah blah stats anyone can easily say India paused unnecessarily. Tendulkar was one of the major reason why the innings paused. it is no rocket science to figure out. We had lost just two wickets and Kohli took 16 balls to crawl from 91 to 100, which actually killed any chance of india getting bonus point. Sachin had moved for same margin in 13 balls in a match played as much slower pace. You start accusing Kohli of stalling that innings, I'll start agreeing with you. PS - You use Lahori Logic then I'll use the same.
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