Mohnish Parmar: Hung out by BCCI to dry

[Crookbond]

Totally agree and it's no wonder that BCCi is struggling to find decent bowlers to such an extent that they have to post ads in newspapers like despos. Serves them right but eventually it's the youngsters (cricketers) and Indian fans who suffer' date=' not the suits in BCCI who are millionaires many times over and don't give a shyte to players, fans or the team.[/quote'] While the cases of Parmar and Kamran Khan are not good, I think the problem of finding good bowlers is a different issue and needs special examination & treatment.

[Ultimate_Game]

While the cases of Parmar and Kamran Khan are not good' date=' I think the problem of finding good bowlers is a different issue and needs special examination & treatment.[/quote'] If BCCI can't even be bothered to back youngsters like Parmar and Kamran Khan it's too much to expect them to unearth new talent.

[Crookbond]

If BCCI can't even be bothered to back youngsters like Parmar and Kamran Khan it's too much to expect them to unearth new talent.

Fair point, I say! :agree:

[jairamesh]

If BCCI can't even be bothered to back youngsters like Parmar and Kamran Khan it's too much to expect them to unearth new talent.

The sad bit is, I thought with the advent of IPL we will see more players like Kamran Khan unearthed. Remember Kamran Khan was scouted by an Aussie support staff from Rajasthan Royals. But the total lack of support and nurturing of Kamran Khan really tells you where BCCI priorities are. But nevertheless, going back to your point, it's very telling. If BCCI and the MRF pace academy can't even nurture the likes of Kamran Khan what hope of unearthing any new talent. Kamran Khan since his "rehabilitation" in 2009, hasn't played a single first class game! PS: The IPL technical committee that banned Karman Khan was lead by Lalit Modi!:omg:

[Crookbond]

Kamran Khan recently played in the IPL4 for Pune Warriors against Royal Challengers Bangalore. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/501232.html He's just 21 though

[bajrang]

Since, you're playing hide-and-seek here's a snip from the same link - This is consistent with what I said - Now, go back read the complete article and check the context of ICC's statement and cry out loud. Let me see what you can come up with. Listen mate, you can think whatever you want to but make sure you check your fingers before typing it on a public forum. You're no one to judge what effort I put or not. I am once again taking the moral ground here and discarding your personal remark. It may not happen henceforth. It's the second time I am putting forth a polite request, there may not be a third tiime.

no its not ! since when 23 degree is equal to 25 degree?? or do u want me to give u 2 degree of relaxation over here??:hysterical:

Now for the science bit: as Ajmal begins to bring his arm over to bowl, there is, on average, a 23.5 degree bend in his elbow (elbow flexion) - the angle to which Ajmal referred in his BBC interview. As he delivers the ball, his arm straightens (elbow extension) by, on average, eight degrees - well within the 15-degree range of tolerance for international cricket set by the ICC. This means that his arm is flexed by around 15.5 degrees at the moment of delivery - but it is vital to remember that it is quite legal to bowl with a bent arm: it is the degree that it straightens from the bend that is monitored. The situation with Ajmal is complicated further by the fact that his elbow also abducts - or rotates sideways - by around 15 degrees in delivery. This is not something that is limited by the rules on the bowling action but helps to create the illusion that his arm has straightened more than it has in reality.

ajmal's elbow extension = 23.5, his abduction= 15 degree. what u copied pasted was actually saying that same thing. it was an reading comprehension failure on your part. i guess like ajmal you are no good with English either. and enough with this patronization. do whatever u want.

[Crookbond]

:facepalm:

[Ultimate_Game]

The sad bit is, I thought with the advent of IPL we will see more players like Kamran Khan unearthed. Remember Kamran Khan was scouted by an Aussie support staff from Rajasthan Royals. But the total lack of support and nurturing of Kamran Khan really tells you where BCCI priorities are. But nevertheless, going back to your point, it's very telling. If BCCI and the MRF pace academy can't even nurture the likes of Kamran Khan what hope of unearthing any new talent. Kamran Khan since his "rehabilitation" in 2009, hasn't played a single first class game! PS: The IPL technical committee that banned Karman Khan was lead by Lalit Modi!:omg:

It's really sad that even when IPL has unearthed a few talented bowlers, which is the only plus of the whole IPL circus, BCCI (or even MRF academy or NCA) has done nothing about it. They have simply looked on as uninterested observers without a care in the world watching likes of Parmar and Kamran Khan's talent go to waste. I had at least expected BCCI to talk to all franchises regarding their promising youngsters and talk to franchise coaches to get inputs on the talent levels of the youngsters from various franchises. There are 9 franchises and even if every franchise comes up with one promising youngster every year that's still 9 players for BCCI and other academies to handle and manage with care. But as usual BCCI has done nothing but drop the ball and we haven't really seen any benefit to Team India from IPL and in fact we have seen our bowling go from bad to worse :(( One would expect that in a league played on flat pitches you would at least come up with 2-3 bowlers who would know how to restrict runs or take wkts but so far nada. Only positive has been rahul Sharma as he was really impressive for pune but so far he has only ridden the bench :facepalm:

[thongale]

My question for BCCI is how is it Murali/Ajmal/Akhtar's actions are considered legal while Parmar's isn't?

Best to ask from bio mechanical experts. If he straightens the elbow more than 15 degrees then he's regarded to be throwing.

[thongale]

No it's not! Just read up more. Let me say this again - medical or no medical condition, a bowler can bend ONLY till 15 degree. Clear?

Hey champ, do your reading once more. It's straightening, not bending of the elbow that consists a chuck. A bowler may start with a 30 degree bend and if only straightens it by 10 degrees and still have a residue of 20, he's legal.

[Ultimate_Game]

Best to ask from bio mechanical experts. If he straightens the elbow more than 15 degrees then he's regarded to be throwing.

I would be more than willing to but unfortunately Pamar was never sent to the lab for testing his bowling action. If Murali's action was an "optical illusion" as claimed by bio-mechanists who cleared his action, didn't Parmar deserve to go through the same process and given the same benefit of doubt? Just because he was a nobody/youngster he was swept under the carpet by BCCI who decided on not incurring any expense on him. That's why the question is for BCCI and not bio-mechanists as BCCI made the call Parmar chucks and never really backed him up and didn't send him to Aus for extensive testing on his action.

[thongale]

But you cannot check it in a match whether a bowler is going over 15 degree or not. They certainly. If some one bend 10-15 degree then it is very much possible that he will go more than 15 degree too' date=' after all he does not first measure his arm before bowling whether it is 15 degree or more and then bowl. He just bowls whatever he wants does not see if it is 15 or over.[/quote']Simple. Test everyone under match conditions if you can

[thongale]

A rule is a rule (15 degrees). You either conform to it or not. "Defects"' date=' "genetic abnormalities" or "hyperextended elbows" are just that - excuses. This is international sport we are talking about, not some village match where anything goes. I repeat if likes of Murali, Ajmal and Akhtar have been given a free reign so far, then Parmar needs to be given a fair shot as well. Pity our board brings our promising youngster down while fighting for players from other teams just to get some ICC votes. And it's not as if those teams are thankful in the least - they are the ones who b***h, moan, whinge and rail against BCCI & India at the drop of a hat.[/quote']Rule says about extension, not flexion.

[thongale]

To me Parmar was no worse than Murali or Ajmal but the disappointing part was that BCCI intervened and didn't even allow him to go the "laborotary test" way to show he doesn't chuck. I doubt any bowler will ever be deemed to be throwing if Murali & Ajmal haven't been found to be chucking. Parmar should have been sent to the same lab/institute for tests.

If this was the case it really sucks. Even banckrupt SLC did send Senanayake and Randiv for testing when there were concerns about their actions (and both were found to be clean).

[Crookbond]

Hey champ' date=' do your reading once more. It's straightening, not bending of the elbow that consists a chuck. A bowler may start with a 30 degree bend and if only straightens it by 10 degrees and still have a residue of 20, he's legal.[/quote'] That wasn't the point! The point is - it's a hard rule irrespective of genetic defects of the bowler.

[thongale]

That wasn't the point! The point is - it's a hard rule irrespective of genetic defects of the bowler.

Agreed, the extension is 15 degrees, for every one. But most of the guys here debating don't have a clue about it and starts questioning how Murali, Akthar, Lee and Harbhajan got away without understanding what the rule is.

[rkt.india]

Hey champ' date=' do your reading once more. It's straightening, not bending of the elbow that consists a chuck. A bowler may start with a 30 degree bend and if only straightens it by 10 degrees and still have a residue of 20, he's legal.[/quote'] But even a bowler himself cannot ensure that he is not straightening the arm more than the limit in matches let alone umpires or officials. one doesn't bend or straighten the arm by choice, it is a habit and something habitual then it has no limits and it is practically impossible to intentionally bend 15 degree and not more because if one is bending 10 or 15, it is very much possible that he will be bending even more on some and less one some deliveries. It will vary on delivery by delivery basis, very much like pace varies from a bowler on most deliveries.

[thongale]

But even a bowler himself cannot ensure that he is not straightening the arm more than the limit in matches let alone umpires or officials. one doesn't bend or straighten the arm by choice' date=' it is a habit and something habitual then it has no limits and it is practically impossible to intentionally bend 15 degree and not more because if one is bending 10 or 15, it is very much possible that he will be bending even more on some and less one some deliveries. It will vary on delivery by delivery basis, very much like pace varies from a bowler on most deliveries.[/quote']Agree every bit of it. But th horror of horror is that same could be said with bowlers said to have clean actions. You never know when they go beyond 15 degrees. And because of their supposedly '"clean" actions, no one is watching too!