The Narendra Modi thread

[Crookbond]

fair point' date=' but sometimes one gets the feeling that it doesnt work both ways in the public sphere. This is where the media's role comes in. I[b']nstead of being the fourth pillar of democracy, it becomes a total sham.

That is actually proven without doubt if you read the "paid media" report from the parliamentary committee. So, it's all left to us to filter out and that can only happen by a good discussion. If we too become like one of those Twitter abusers or Youtube commenters then we will always live in a filter bubble.

[Sachin=GOD]

but then with that mindset' date=' i can also give the articles of known Modi baiters no credency as well. :winky:[/quote'] read some of the articles I've posted in the last few days - most of them are analysis of why a Modi led BJP may not get the numbers required to form a Govt.

[FischerTal]

That is actually proven without doubt if you read the "paid media" report from the parliamentary committee. So' date=' it's all left to us to filter out and that can only happen by a good discussion. If we too become like one of those Twitter abusers or Youtube commenters then we will always live in a filter bubble.[/quote'] :icflove:

[FischerTal]

read some of the articles I've posted in the last few days - most of them are analysis of why a Modi led BJP may not get the numbers required to form a Govt.

i will... but has there been any analysis of how a non-Modi led BJP will get the numbers?

[Sachin=GOD]

i will... but has there been any analysis of how a non-Modi led BJP will get the numbers?

none that I know of. I think most people (including me) who have some knowledge of politics agree that making someone like Advani the PM candidate will not work BUT they also know that making Modi the PM candidate will also not work because he cannot attract any pre poll allies and without allies, BJP cannot hope to get substantial numbers on its own.

[Crookbond]

After reading from our media, Ghalib ne Kabir se kahaan (ahem .... ahem) Kabira iss sansar mein bhaanti-bhaanti ke log Kabira iss sansar mein bhaanti-bhaanti ke log Kuch toh M****ch** hain, kuch bahute M****ch** :two_thumbs_up:

[FischerTal]

none that I know of. I think most people (including me) who have some knowledge of politics agree that making someone like Advani the PM candidate will not work BUT they also know that making Modi the PM candidate will also not work because he cannot attract any pre poll allies and without allies' date=' BJP cannot hope to get substantial numbers on its own.[/quote'] well if neither Modi/Advani become BJP PM candidate, then the only one I see being the candidate is Jaitley.

[Sachin=GOD]

well if neither Modi/Advani become BJP PM candidate' date=' then the only one I see being the candidate is [b']Jaitley.

PM, yes. PM candidate, not in a million years. He has less than 0 mass base :giggle: I think the ideal thing would be to let Modi be the Campaign Chief but give the allies strong hints that Modi is not and will not be the PM candidate and that Advani is by no means out of the race and if BJP gets in a position to form the Govt, the PM will be chosen with consensus of allies. Thats the only way to get any party to get into a pre poll alliance. Otherwise BJP is doomed.

[FischerTal]

PM, yes. PM candidate, not in a million years. He has less than 0 mass base :giggle: I think the ideal thing would be to let Modi be the Campaign Chief but give the allies strong hints that Modi is not and will not be the PM candidate and that Advani is by no means out of the race and if BJP gets in a position to form the Govt, the PM will be chosen with consensus of allies. Thats the only way to get any party to get into a pre poll alliance. Otherwise BJP is doomed.

well i read in an article long back that advani wants to be PM for the first year or so and then give over the reigns to a senior leader... most likely jaitley.

[Sachin=GOD]

well i read in an article long back that advani wants to be PM for the first year or so and then give over the reigns to a senior leader... most likely jaitley.

Nah. That was a rumor started by just one news agency (CNN-IBN IIRC) immediately after Advani resigned. The article talked about his 3 demands for taking back resignation - it was just a baseless rumor and no other newspaper/website carried the news. The Advani-Jaitely relationship has soured in the last 1-2 years with Jaitely now firmly in Modi's favour. If Advani does become PM and gets a chance to choose a successor then IMO it will be Sushma Swaraj.

[FischerTal]

Nah. That was a rumor started by just one news agency (CNN-IBN IIRC) immediately after Advani resigned. The article talked about his 3 demands for taking back resignation - it was just a baseless rumor and no other newspaper/website carried the news. The Advani-Jaitely relationship has soured in the last 1-2 years with Jaitely now firmly in Modi's favour. If Advani does become PM and gets a chance to choose a successor then IMO it will be Sushma Swaraj.

pappu cant dance but our future PM surely can :woot:

[Sachin=GOD]

pappu cant dance but our future PM surely can :woot:

still better than Pappu :beee:

[adi B]

well' date=' one chewtiya cadre cancels out one chewtiya supporter... so its all good in the end :dontknow:[/quote'] :hysterical: just could not control my laugh.. no pun intended

[dial_100]

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: Inclusive growth policies?!!! Yea - please enlighten us more Einstein about "inclusive growth".

The party who has ruled the country for decades has still left 33% of its rural population under the poverty. Against that party, i would hand over the reign to any cat or dog to rule. They will certainly do better. Why question just Gujarat about it. I think people are too harsh. Do you think that the state of poor population in Congress ruled states including Maharashtra is any better? You and I clearly know that what would it take to see some substantial improvement in some of the indicators that show growth of rural and town trodden population. You need strong state economy to be able to invest a sizable amount in the improvement of poor. Having said that I am sure there are similar difficulties in Gujarat with distribution channels just like any other state in India. May be slightly good/bad. So expecting sudden change in these areas is not possible. I think we should give chance to BJP this time with sizable presence in the parliament. Let us see if people like their rule. In fact we need good two full terms of BJP to see some great difference. States have seen the improvement so will India.

[Sachin=GOD]

The more he talks ….

Narendra Modi has been celebrated for his clarity of vision and powerful oratory. But lately he has begun to look like a wordsmith who trips on his own words The more Narendra Modi talks, the more he keeps a whole lot of folks busy: Television debaters who have to decode what he said; Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) spokespersons who have to contort themselves out of shape to defend him; bloggers and social media junkies who have to give up sleep to tweet, blog and get creative with jokes and eulogies; and political commentators who have to struggle to keep pace with the NaMo controversies. Up until now, NaMo has held his audiences spellbound with his oratory. From the India Today conclave attended by high society folks to the many lectures to the young and trendy at college functions, the BJP’s Prime Ministerial-aspirant has been a hit on the lecture circuit. The speeches and audience behaviour have followed a pattern: a fantastic assemblage of facts and figures on Gujarat followed by standing ovation and exclamations of delight at India finally finding its saviour — a politician with brains, charisma and administrative acumen. Reuters interview But Mr. Modi’s last two outings have got even the admirers scratching their heads because the smart man who enticed with a miasma of words has been shown to be unsmart in the way he used words. The Kutte ka bachcha (puppy) reference in his Reuters interview was a bad analogy made worse by the BJP’s defence that it showed his compassion towards all living things. Secondly, how does that phrase make for an answer to a specific question on whether he regretted the 2002 anti-Muslim violence? If anything, Mr. Modi’s answer to the question shows this: he is in his elements when addressing the converted, but unsure and evasive when forced to come out of that comfort zone — and this despite the easy ride given to him by the Reuters correspondents. Mr. Modi answered the violence question in two parts. He said the Supreme Court-appointed Special Investigation Team (SIT) had given him a “clean chit” in the 2002 violence, thereby equating the SIT with the Supreme Court. The interviewers did not cross question him on this nor did they point out that a court in Gujarat is currently hearing a protest petition against the SIT report. The second part of the answer was dodgier still. To quote: “Another thing, any person if we are driving a car, we are a driver, and someone else is driving a car and we are sitting behind, even then if a puppy comes under the wheel, will it be painful or not?... If I’m a chief minister or not, I’m a human being. If something bad happens anywhere, it is natural to be sad.” The answer changed from “we are driving a car” to “we are a driver” to “someone else is driving a car.” Is it a Freudian slip that he first said he was driving the car, and then changed to “sitting behind” when he realised the implications? The inference is difficult to avoid in the context of the 2002 violence. This is one question for which he should have been prepared and yet he wasn’t. The bit about “something bad” happening “anywhere,” is so problematic that it had the usually cocksure Ravi Shankar Prasad fidgeting for a way out. On a show with Karan Thapar, the BJP spokesperson protested over and over that anything bad happening “anywhere” would sadden Mr. Modi. “Can’t you see that he said ‘anywhere’?” he asked in anguish. Unfortunately for Mr. Modi and Mr. Prasad, the question was not about “anywhere.” The Reuters hacks were not measuring Mr. Modi’s compassion levels for awful things happening to people all over the world. They wanted to know if he felt any regret for 2002. Mr. Modi could have said he had been cleared by the SIT and he was confident of eventually being cleared by the Supreme Court. He could have argued that despite his administration’s best efforts there was violence which he regretted. But of course, if he had said that, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) would have come after him with a sledgehammer. That the RSS is setting the direction for Mr. Modi is clear from the “burqa of secularism” accusation he hurled at the Congress at a college event that followed the Reuters interview. Why burqa and why not a more neutral piece of garment such as ghunghat (veil in Hindi)? Obviously because burqa is Islamic. If there was doubt on who the target was, it was cleared by a Shiv Sena spokesperson who said at a TV discussion that the usual way to bring a criminal out in public was to wrap him in a burqa. As 2014 draws nearer The problem is going to get worse in the coming days because Mr. Modi is attempting to fuse hard Hindutva with an image overhaul ahead of 2014. The silk and chiffon crowd that has been hearing him out at corporate galas might worship him but it is unlikely to want its superhero to come as a package deal with the scrappy Bajrang Dal. And hence the simultaneous wooing of Muslims by Mr. Modi. However, the contradictions are too glaring to be papered over by his usual skill with words. In any case, a careful listener of Mr. Modi’s speeches will know that often he just throws words and ideas around. One example is his suggestion at the India Today conclave that the Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme be renamed the Mahatma Gandhi Development Guarantee scheme. The reasoning he offered was that while the former implied the beneficiary was in poverty, the latter made her a participant in national development. Predictably, the proposal was received with ear-splitting applause. But laws have to be clear and specific about what they want to achieve. If the aim is to guarantee jobs, the title has to reflect it. Changing jobs to development makes no sense. By this yardstick, the Food Security Bill will have to be renamed Happiness Bill. More claims So with a whole lot of claims about Gujarat. Speaking at a college meet in Delhi, Mr. Modi said Gujarat was a leading producer of milk and supplied milk to Delhi. Figures put out by the National Dairy Development Council show that Gujarat is the fifth largest producer of milk in India. And yes, Amul milk does service parts of Delhi but Mr. Modi actually fought with that great Amul man, Verghese Kurien. The Gujarat Chief Minister said Gujarat sent okra to Europe. I could not locate the statistics for this. However, I learnt that okra is consumed largely by Indians in Europe. Secondly, according to the Agricultural and Processed Food Products Export Development Authority (APECA), which functions under the Union Ministry of Commerce, Gujarat is the fifth largest producer of okra. APECA also said it had sanctioned Agri Export Zones in six States, including Gujarat. Mr. Modi insists that for him secularism is “India First.” Will any political party say that it believes in “India last”? He has a way with words but words have a way of spinning out of control.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-more-he-talks/article4938230.ece

[FischerTal]

The Gujarat miracle: There is no denying the major economic advances the state has made under Narendra Modi

I recently wrote about why the accomplishments of chief minister Nitish Kumar - that at last bring hope to Bihar - could not be underestimated. Today, i turn to Gujarat, which has been generally more prosperous in the post-Independence era and has performed impressively under chief minister Narendra Modi. Critics who insist on viewing everything related to Modi through the 2002 lens and, thus, fail to separate their economics from politics have fallen short of 20/20 vision. Begin with growth. The relevant comparison here is with larger, richer states. Based on per-capita Net State Domestic Product (NSDP) in 2009-10, Gujarat ranks third, behind Maharashtra and Haryana but ahead of Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Punjab and Karnataka in that order. Modi came to office in October 2001. In the following eight years spanning 2002-03 to 2009-10 (2002-10), NSDP grew at 10.5% annual rate in Gujarat and at 10.1% in the nearest competitor, Maharashtra. The rate during the preceding eight years, 1994-02, was 5.9%, behind only Haryana's 6.3%. Modi inherited a vibrant economy and has taken it to new heights. Gujarat had ranked sixth in terms of per-capita NSDP in 2002-03. Outperforming Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Punjab, it moved up to the third spot in 2005-06 and has remained there. While the performance in agriculture has received the greatest attention, perhaps the most exceptional feature of Gujarat's success has been the performance of manufacturing. Compared with the national average of 15%, manufacturing in Gujarat accounted for 27.4% of the Gross State Domestic Product (GSDP) in 2009-10. Critics might say that this proportion has risen only one percentage point since 2002-03. But given the uphill battle manufacturing faces in India, even maintaining the share at this high level is a challenge. In all comparator states, this share has been below 20%. Moreover, with the exception of Punjab, none has been able to raise it by more than a percentage point during 2002-10. With a high and rapidly rising per-capita income, it should come as no surprise that Gujarat has a significantly lower poverty ratio than India as a whole and it is fast declining. Based on the Tendulkar poverty lines and methodology, overall poverty in Gujarat fell by only six percentage points during 11 years between 1993-94 and 2004-05. But during just five years between 2004-05 and 2009-10, it fell an impressive nine percentage points. In 2009-10, the poverty ratio in Gujarat at 23% was almost seven percentage points below the national average. The decline in poverty has been observed across all major social groups. My ongoing rese-arch with Megha Mukim finds the poverty ratio for the scheduled castes tumbling from 40.1% in 2004-05 to 21.8% in 2009-10. The decline has been less sharp for the more numerous scheduled tribes (ST) - from 54.7% in 2004-05 to 47.6% in 2009-10. Given the continued high absolute level of ST poverty, the state must think of imaginative ways to bring the fruits of growth to the tribal belts. Critics frequently deride the exceptional growth in Gujarat by pointing to its lack of achievement in the social sectors. But they often do so by focussing on selective indicators. A consideration of a broad set of indicators hardly offers an indictment of the state even in social sectors. The critics' case is particularly weak in education. Gujarat added 10 percentage points to the literacy rate during 2001-11, more than any other comparator state. At 79.3%, the literacy rate now stands one percentage point behind Tamil Nadu and three percentage points behind Maharashtra. Indeed, once we take into account the low literacy level of Gujarat at Independence, its progress looks more impressive than that of even Kerala. To eliminate the bias that may result from differences in initial levels of literacy in evaluating the improvements in literacy, compare the three-decade progress in Gujarat during 1981-2011 to that in Maharashtra during 1971-2001 and Kerala during 1951-81. The initial literacy rates in these states during these periods were almost equal: 45% in Gujarat in 1981, 46% in Maharashtra in 1971 and 47% in Kerala in 1951. But three decades later, larger improvements by Gujarat had taken it ahead of both Maharashtra and Kerala. On a longer-term basis, Gujarat's gains in the vital health statistics are nothing to scoff at either. If the levels of these statistics compare unfavourably, it is because it began the race with a disadvantage. In life expectancy, it began a year below the national ave-rage during 1970-75 and remained exactly there in 2006-09. Infant mortality rate per thousand live births in Gujarat exceeded the national average by 15 in 1971 but fell below it by two in 2009. Under-five mortality and maternal mortality rates in 2006-09 were, likewise, well below the national average. Data do show Gujarat performing worse than the national average in child nutrition between 1998-99 and 2005-06, the latest period for which consistent data are available. The government can do much social good by targeted action in this area. The good news is that with high growth, the state has the necessary revenues to successfully address the problem. While one can selectively poke holes in nearly every success story, taken as a whole, it is difficult to remain unimpressed by what Gujarat has achieved. I would be only too happy if its economic success spread next door to my home state, Rajasthan.

Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/The-Gujarat-miracle-There-is-no-denying-the-major-economic-advances-the-state-has-made-under-Narendra-Modi/articleshow/16495127.cms?intenttarget=no

[Crookbond]

The party who has ruled the country for decades has still left 33% of its rural population under the poverty. Against that party' date=' i would hand over the reign to any cat or dog to rule. They will certainly do better. [b']Why question just Gujarat about it. I think people are too harsh. Do you think that the state of poor population in Congress ruled states including Maharashtra is any better? You and I clearly know that what would it take to see some substantial improvement in some of the indicators that show growth of rural and town trodden population. You need strong state economy to be able to invest a sizable amount in the improvement of poor. Having said that I am sure there are similar difficulties in Gujarat with distribution channels just like any other state in India. May be slightly good/bad. So expecting sudden change in these areas is not possible. I think we should give chance to BJP this time with sizable presence in the parliament. Let us see if people like their rule. In fact we need good two full terms of BJP to see some great difference. States have seen the improvement so will India.

I don't say that X is better than Gujarat or vice-versa. The policies in Gujarat have not helped "inclusive growth" - check the report posted by Outsider. The fact that it has not helped in Maharastra, UP or Bihar is irrelevant. That said, I want BJP to be given a chance to serve (I hate the word rule because it is not rule it is "serve") the country given that certain conditions are met.

[Crookbond]

The more he talks …. http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-more-he-talks/article4938230.ece

I am surprised no one has picked on the "milk production" - I hate the fact that ANY party/leader spin doctors data for any reason. Did you find any reference to that speech? I found at least one reference on a government website which talks about it. In this case, it is a bit more pathetic as it devalues Amul's and Kurien's work in particular. Andhra Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan produce more tons of milk than Gujarat. Haryana, Punjab, Rajasthan and UP also have higher per capita availability of milk.

Gujarat is the largest producer of Milk in India. Amul milk cooperative is Asia's biggest dairy.

http://www.gujaratcmfellowship.org/about-gujarat.html

[adi B]

The party who has ruled the country for decades has still left 33% of its rural population under the poverty. Against that party, i would hand over the reign to any cat or dog to rule. They will certainly do better. Why question just Gujarat about it. I think people are too harsh. Do you think that the state of poor population in Congress ruled states including Maharashtra is any better? You and I clearly know that what would it take to see some substantial improvement in some of the indicators that show growth of rural and town trodden population. You need strong state economy to be able to invest a sizable amount in the improvement of poor. Having said that I am sure there are similar difficulties in Gujarat with distribution channels just like any other state in India. May be slightly good/bad. So expecting sudden change in these areas is not possible. I think we should give chance to BJP this time with sizable presence in the parliament. Let us see if people like their rule. In fact we need good two full terms of BJP to see some great difference. States have seen the improvement so will India.

100% agreed,i too stated this view in this thread a month ago.. have to give BJP a chance,no way this UPA govn deserve to be in power again

[Sachin=GOD]

Narendra Modi may end up making the Congress scion look less ineffective

One of the great charms of our democracy is that it is noisy and rambunctious. It's a festival celebrated by 1.2 billion people. And the din becomes louder and the speeches fierier as elections approach. Strangely, most Indian Prime Ministers, barring Jawaharlal Nehru and Atal Bihari Vajpayee, have not been great orators. Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi had the charisma and the ability to connect with crowds, but their speeches lacked the magic of India's first PM and the Bharatiya Janata Party's only PM. Lal Bahadur Shastri coined the immortal Jai Jawan Jai Kisan slogan, but delivered few memorable speeches. Deve Gowda sounded sleepy and, for some inexplicable reason, petulant. P V Narasimha Rao, I K Gujral and Manmohan Singh were erudite, at times even scholarly, but never set anyone's pulse racing. Narendra Modi aspires to be India's third orator Prime Minister. He has a compelling personality, an authoritative voice and the ability to hold his audience's attention. He embellishes his speeches with powerful idioms and imagery. He thinks of sound bites and headlines for his many friends and admirers in the media. And he is always provocative. He does not pull any punches. As his recent interview with Reuters demonstrates, even when not addressing large crowds, Modi eschews political correctness and speaks his mind. This is how it should be. Surely, these are admirable qualities. Modi's handlers and admirers seek to market him as a pro-development and pro-growth leader. They highlight Gujarat's reputation as a business- and investment-friendly destination, and how it has been transformed and developed under his leadership. They have positioned him as a strong leader and an efficient administrator, a perfect antidote to the floundering and directionless UPA government. Choosing the Doghouse As India's economy faces its biggest challenge since 1991, Modi has been presented with an ideal opportunity to clearly and forcefully spell out his economic philosophy. He can critique the government for its economic mismanagement and articulate his strategy for generating growth and development, as well as for curbing the various deficits. His track record in Gujarat gives him credibility. He has the gift of breaking down complex themes into simple yet powerful messages. He could make this election about the future. Instead, Modi is doing what he does best: fanning old prejudices and inciting people. From introducing Mian Musharraf in the 2002 Gujarat elections to reintroducing the mian theme in the 2012 campaign by targeting Ahmed Patel to his recent comments about "kutte ka bachcha" (the English translation does not do justice to the phrase) and the "burqa" of secularism, the Gujarat chief minister has travelled a long distance, but, tragically, stands exactly at the same place he did a decade ago. His supporters will say this is a classic example of viewing every remark of Modi from a jaundiced prism, and of never giving him the benefit of doubt. This argument could hold true for L K Advani, who has publicly not made a communal statement since 1996. But Modi leaves little scope for misinterpretation. This election can be fought over the non-performance of the UPA government, the scams and scandals of the last few years, and the dismal state of the Indian economy. Instead, Modi is poised to transform it into a referendum on him, his ideology, and their implications for the social fabric of India. - this IMO is the gist of the 2014 Election Campaign so far. This election also has the potential of pitting Narendra Modi and Rahul Gandhi against each other. Rahul will be the face and the leader of the Congress party, just as Modi is of his. It has been the BJP's fondest wish since its Jan Sangh avatar to defeat a Nehru-Gandhi family-led Congress party in the elections. Even Chances, Odd Rival The circumstances are propitious for the BJP. There is genuine anger with the performance of the government in Main Street. The party has the opportunity to compare Modi's reputation as an efficient chief minister with Gandhi's inexperience. It has the chance to compare Modi's well-defined positions on several issues with Gandhi's vagueness on most things. Ahimsa Against Gandhi? It can also legitimately compare and contrast Modi's loquaciousness with Gandhi's silence. In the last few months, while Modi has been active on the campaign trail, Rahul has been largely missing in action. Reaching out to the people is an integral part of any democracy, and on this count, the BJP leader has done well. Ironically, Modi's intemperate remarks will help mask Rahul's weaknesses. As Modi demonstrates that not only has he not changed, he also has no desire to change, the Congress scion can afford to stay above the fray for a little while longer. His silence may even begin to sound attractive. It has been argued that the Congress wants to fight this election on the sole issue of "secularism versus communalism" in its bid to stymie BJP. If that is indeed the case, Modi's remarks in the last 8-10 days show that he is a willing partner in this strategy.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opinion/comments-analysis/narendra-modi-may-end-up-making-the-congress-scion-look-less-ineffective/articleshow/21231240.cms?flstry=1