Saudi to fund Indian Madrassahs - Wahhabism Proliferates in India

[Guest dada_rocks]

And you still haven't answered the simple question I asked ! Quit your selective answering !

I answered it either u didn't read it or u ain't smart enough to get it.. I am not wasting any more time on those howlers of why u post this or why u didn't post this anymore..

[veer]

yes our govt at fault.. why cant they ask if we can build Mandirs and churches inside saudi arabia.. and around hajj or wherever the hell its located.. to spread real liberal religion..

[Guest dada_rocks]

AIMPLB wud go on strike congressi govt will start peeing in its pants.. They can't marshal courage to nab a legislator who not only beats someone on camera but vows to kill her next time and u are asking them confront wahabis..

[kumble_rocks]

Again you have drawn your own conclusions without so much as bothering to hear me out. And if you keep doing it all the time you will be accused - and rightly so - of exiting when it gets tricky. If you want to get to the bottom of this you are more than welcome to do so ... either online or offline. Otherwise you gotta stop this hit and run thingy. Fair ?

Fair enough , if you get to the point at hand in a straight forward terse way. I won't be bothered into 100 posts debate every time around. I simply don't have time for this kind of debates.

[kumble_rocks]

Which is what I suspected. And thanks for confirming that you will continue with your agenda of

my agenda is to expose double standards from any poster whether it is you , DR , Lurker , CC etc , I don't care. I am for truth , that's all.

Check your PM

Laterz.

I dont ever recall using my Mod powers while discussing with you.... care to elaborate ?

What is it that I should gather from this outrageous statement right in this thread stated in asterix. You Sir are trying to flex your moderating muscles . ****************** I will. Now shall I also start cracking down on you too when you start your "hindu Fundie/Bigot tirades without as much as a iota of evidence to go by it ? you wont like that for some reason I suspect Right ? ******************

Ok. What was the evidence you provided to make your case ? Lets take the easiest one to begin with : Tippu.

Why do keep harping Tippu, Check Wikipedia for Starts. You will get all your answers . Here is a brief quote - ) While no eminent scholar has denied that, in common with most rulers of his period, Tippu Sultan’s campaigns were often characterized by great brutality, some historians have said that the brutality was not exclusively motivated by religion, and it did not amount to a consistent anti-Kafir policy. Brittlebank, Hasan, Chetty, Habib and Saletare, amongst others, argue that stories of Tippu Sultan's religious persecution of Hindus and Christians are largely derived from the work of early British authors such as Kirkpatrick[9] and Wilks,[10] whom they do not consider to be entirely reliable A. S. Chetty argues that Wilks’ account in particular cannot be trusted,[12] Irfan Habib and Mohibbul Hasan argues that these early British authors had a strong vested interest in presenting Tippu Sultan as a tyrant from whom the British had "liberated" Mysore.[13] This assessment is echoed by Brittlebank in her recent work where she writes that Wilks and Kirkpatrick must be used with particular care as both authors had taken part in the wars against Tippu Sultan and were closely connected to the administrations of Lord Cornwallis and Richard Wellesley, 1st Marquess Wellesley.[14] Mohibbul Hasan casts some doubt on the scale of the deportations and forced conversions in Coorg in particular, and says that the English versions of what happened were intended to malign Tippu Sultan, and to be used as propaganda against him. He argues that little reliance can be placed in Muslim accounts such as Kirmani’s "Nishan-e Haidari"; in their anxiety to represent the Sultan as a champion of Islam, they had a tendency to exaggerate and distort the facts: Kirmani claims that 70,000 Coorgis were converted, when forty years later the entire population of Coorg was still less than that number. According to Ramchandra Rao "Punganuri" the true number of converts was about 500.[15] A Mogul general, known only by his initials, M.M.K.F.G., wrote an account of Tippoo Sultaun's life, which was corrected by one of Tippoo's sons, wherein he asserts that the Sultan, in his wars against the Maharaja of Travancore, had 10,000 Hindus and Christians killed and 7,000 transported back to Seringapatam, where they were circumcised, made to eat beef and forced to convert to Mohammedanism. A more solid proof may be had from the destruction meted out to numerous lesser temples, especially in the Sultan's southern domains, in the late 1780s. An outstanding example of this may be seen in the ruins of the temple in the hill-fort of Dindigul which has none of the presiding deities in the sancta sanctora, besides having other reliefs disfigured. The portrayal of Tippu Sultan as a religious bigot is disputed, and some sources suggest that he in fact often embraced religious pluralism.[16] Tippu Sultan's treasurer was Krishna Rao, Shamaiya Iyengar was his Minister of Post and Police,his brother ranga iyengar was also an officer and Purnaiya held the very important post of "Mir Asaf". Moolchand and Sujan Rai were his chief agents at the Mughal court, and his chief "Peshkar", Suba Rao, was also a Hindu.[17] There is such evidence as grant deeds, and correspondence between his court and temples, and his having donated jewelry and deeded land grants to several temples, which some claim he was compelled to do in order to make alliances with Hindu rulers. Between 1782 and 1799 Tippu Sultan issued 34 "Sanads" (deeds) of endowment to temples in his domain, while also presenting many of them with gifts of silver and gold plate. The Srikanteswara Temple in Nanjangud still possesses a jewelled cup presented by the Sultan.[18] In 1791 some Maratha horsemen under Raghunath Rao Patwardhan raided the temple and monastery of Sringeri Shankaracharya, killing and wounding many, and plundering the monastery of all its valuable possessions. The incumbent Shankaracharya petitioned Tippu Sultan for help. A bunch of about 30 letters written in Kannada, which were exchanged between Tippu Sultan's court and the Sringeri Shankaracharya were discovered in 1916 by the Director of Archaeology in Mysore. Tippu Sultan expressed his indignation and grief at the news of the raid, and wrote:

"People who have sinned against such a holy place are sure to suffer the consequences of their misdeeds at no distant date in this Kali age in accordance with the verse: "Hasadbhih kriyate karma ruladbhir-anubhuyate" (People do [evil] deeds smilingly but suffer the consequences crying)."

[19]

He immediately ordered his "Asaf" of Bednur to supply the Swami with 200 "rahatis" (fanams) in cash and other gifts and articles. Tippu Sultan's interest in the Sringeri temple continued for many years, and he was still writing to the Swami in the 1790s CE.[20] In light of this and other events, B.A. Saletare has described Tippu Sultan as a defender of the Hindu Dharma, who also patronized other temples including one at Melkote, for which he issued a Kannada decree that the Shrivaishnava invocatory verses there should be recited in the traditional form. The temple at Melkote still has gold and silver vessels with inscriptions indicating that they were presented by the Sultan. Tippu Sultan also presented four silver cups to the Lakshmikanta Temple at Kalale.[21] Tippu Sultan does seem to have repossessed unauthorised grants of land made to Brahmins and temples, but those which had proper "sanads" were not. It was a normal practice for any ruler, Muslim or Hindu, to do on his accession or on the conquest of new territory. It is hard to reconcile these two very different profiles of Tippu Sultan, but the truth, it seems, lies somewhere between the two. It seems that when corresponding with other Islamic rulers such as the Amir of Afghanistan or the Ottoman Sultan, Tippu Sultan presented himself as an archetypal Islamic ruler, converting the infidel by the sword, and this was also the external image he presented to the British.[22] The late 18th century CE was a turbulent period in South India, and it seems that, in common with the Marathas, the Nizam, the British, and the French, Tippu Sultan also sometimes instructed his army to loot, pillage and kill civilians for real or suspected disloyalty.[23] He carried out forced conversions of Hindus and Christians.[24] Nonetheless, in his internal policies, he was conciliatory and tolerant, patronizing Hindu temples and relying heavily on Hindu subordinates. For his royal emblem he chose the tiger, which was religiously neutral and could appeal to both Hindus and Muslims.[25] Some historians including Surendranath Sen and H. H. Dodwell say that Tippu Sultan was neither a benevolent pioneer of religious tolerance nor a religious ideologue and Islamic fanatic, but a wily, ruthless, but above all, a pragmatic ruler operating in a time of great political instability and of constant threats to his rule coming from all sides.[26]

[kumble_rocks]

No Iam not. You asked me to crack down on DR and I said I will (Which you took it as "I Wont" ) and if you want me to be soo strict I will also have to be strict on you as well. Remember its you who wanted me to wear a moderators hat in the first place ?

So let me get this straight , you are equating this bigoted statement from DR ( for which he hasn't apologized incidentally) " Muslims breed like ......." with my tongue and cheek comment about DR belonging to Hindu brigade ? Then I would ask Dhondy , Shwetabh and others to ban the poster Bheembhai also in the same token , if you ever accuse me or others of being PSEC or suffering from HISS syndrome etc. Get the drift mate. BTW, Did I ever complain about DR to Mods ever officially asking for his ban? Provide me a link sir ! Even on the other thread it was Shwetabh and Gambit who blasted him without any coercing at their own accord , mind you. Anyways ! Are you enjoying this mate ! I am not , why pester me to reply back again and again !

[Gaurav]

Saudi money will bring nothing but trouble.

[Guest dada_rocks]

So let me get this straight , you are equating this bigoted statement from DR ( for which he hasn't apologized incidentally) " Muslims breed like ......." with my tongue and cheek comment about DR belonging to Hindu brigade ? Then I would ask Dhondy , Shwetabh and others to ban the poster Bheembhai also in the same token , if you ever accuse me or others of being PSEC or suffering from HISS syndrome etc. Get the drift mate. BTW, Did I ever complain about DR to Mods ever officially asking for his ban? Provide me a link sir ! Even on the other thread it was Shwetabh and Gambit who blasted him without any coercing at their own accord , mind you. Anyways ! Are you enjoying this mate ! I am not , why pester me to reply back again and again !

I have edited those words and as far as fact is concerned I have shown it to be true they most certainly invariably always leave the rest behind whereevr they are in breding business. There doesn't exisst even single excpetion to that rule period rest of the garbage I wud let go..

[Guest dada_rocks]

That is not the only derogatory comment you have made in the past ... There is a easy solution to all this instead of going into the he-said she said mode ... please be courteous to one another regardless of how controversial the posters view point is ... instead of starting off with an accusation as a response. There is only one way the thread will go from there on. Now if you want me to go to the bottom of all the he-saidshe said stuff I can do so .. but I cannot let anyone get away with blanket accusations. Be it you or DR or anybody. Let me know what you want me to do. And its best that we take the Tippu discusion offline as it will ruffle too many people eventually. PM me your junk email addy if you are interested.

Amaa ak baar ki baat ho to I can let go but he starts this in bloody every thread .....Same crap despite the fact that I have clarified that point thousand times..

[Ram]

BB , I wish i could also start speaking my mind on what KR has had to say about DR. I have been subject unprovoked insults too. But yea , i shall shut up , for this time atleast.

[Guest dada_rocks]

U guys will morphe whole thread into accusation fest but if I find u doing sthg and point it out then that becomes abuse.. mahan hain bhaiya..

[Ram]

DR , you are free to criticise what i say , the points i make. But, your comments get personal for no reason whatsoever . I dont want to take this any further. It will take us nowhere.

[CC1981]

If Saudis wanna set up madrassahs, i think it'd be good to put a lid on it and tell them thanks but no thanks. And there is some shocking degree of religious bigotry in this thread. Its mindboggling that people here would pick China's side over the Turkestan's simply because they are muslims.China's brutality in Turkestan and Tibet far dwarves that of Islamic terrorists or fundies, its pretty clear which side i'd rather see successful. Besides, those who attach 'muslim --> fundies' label know really nothing of the world- have not travelled and $hit they spout are not experience-based but opinion-based. FYI, Turks are one of the most 'lassez-fairez' muslims. An old turkish saying is 'first is a man's horse, then his wife, then his house and then his religion'. That alone shows how 'hardcore' turks are. Most of central Asia is 'muslim in name only' and can't be ar$ed to follow the Koran to a fanatic level. Obviously potential exists and there are the oddball exception cases but Turks are less fundamentalists than rest of Islam- hell, they are less fundamentalist than Indians!

[kumble_rocks]

That is not the only derogatory comment you have made in the past ...

Same can be said about you as well.

There is a easy solution to all this instead of going into the he-said she said mode ... please be courteous to one another regardless of how controversial the posters view point is ... instead of starting off with an accusation as a response. There is only one way the thread will go from there on.

What part of my post in the earlier thread did you find abusive which made DR go postal. I just questioned his double standards which I will continue doing in the foreseeable future . He or you can respond back without indulging in abuses. I can promise , I will not be the one to cast the first stone and indulge in abuse first. Show me one single post where I have abused first ? I do not have a pedigree nor penchant for hurling abuse first. It's only when DR got personal , I started resorting in his language. But as usual , you take his side. That's why I said , you should give up moderation because you can not be a honest broker anymore. Either way , I could care less.

Now if you want me to go to the bottom of all the he-saidshe said stuff I can do so .. but I cannot let anyone get away with blanket accusations. Be it you or DR or anybody. Let me know what you want me to do.

What do you mean by that . I could care less if moderation is involved or not. DR and me are adults. We can take care of ourselves . You unnecessary butted into this in my opinion. That's when I asked hard questions on why you fail to criticize DR when other Moderators did just that in the other thread. All I want is some consistency in your posts. I am getting sick and tired of the double standards , that's all.

And its best that we take the Tippu discusion offline as it will ruffle too many people eventually. PM me your junk email addy if you are interested.

No offline brother. I would like to do it here or never.

[kumble_rocks]

Yes Dada Iam aware ... Patience is a virtue.

Jesus ! Quit the mutual back rubbing will ya !

[CC1981]

K_R: deal with garbage the way garbage is meant to be dealt- put the pandava pretender on your ignore mode and keep it that way. Many here already do that- including certain people you wouldn't expect it from. D_R is the only idiot from the hinduvta gang that is worth talking to because he kills himself with his own nonsense 99% of the time. I suggest you leave it at the 'exposing the idiot' and not trying to get the person to realize your discovery- it usually results in abuse of power to hide their ego/shame and keep spouting the same nonsense.

[Guest dada_rocks]

DR , you are free to criticise what i say , the points i make. But, your comments get personal for no reason whatsoever . I dont want to take this any further. It will take us nowhere.

U two started with personal attack u know with lines like people think youo are this and that what you have to say about that.. and yes I did caught u lying and hence mentioned that and then u give me lecture of please don;t get personal routine..

[King]

K_R: deal with garbage the way garbage is meant to be dealt- put the pandava pretender on your ignore mode and keep it that way. Many here already do that- including certain people you wouldn't expect it from. D_R is the only idiot from the hinduvta gang that is worth talking to because he kills himself with his own nonsense 99% of the time. I suggest you leave it at the 'exposing the idiot' and not trying to get the person to realize your discovery- it usually results in abuse of power to hide their ego/shame and keep spouting the same nonsense.

I think you should realize CC every time you post you take a dig at selected few. If you are ignoring them why bother abuse them? I'll have to say many a times it gets really hard someone not to retaliate when you post something as this. Why do you reckon anyone will take your pot shots easily every time? You had a dig at Bheem in the cricket discussions thread also and you clearly know you cannot stop having a go at your favourite targets. For once why not take it a bit easy and understand your sole purpose here is not to have a go at selected few. You have good backing of posters and a lot of them like your posts. Why not post something creative than just log in here to abuse someone? I'm sure you should know that is utter waste of your time.

[Guest dada_rocks]

K_R: deal with garbage the way garbage is meant to be dealt- put the pandava pretender on your ignore mode and keep it that way. Many here already do that- including certain people you wouldn't expect it from. D_R is the only idiot from the hinduvta gang that is worth talking to because he kills himself with his own nonsense 99% of the time. I suggest you leave it at the 'exposing the idiot' and not trying to get the person to realize your discovery- it usually results in abuse of power to hide their ego/shame and keep spouting the same nonsense.

here comes the chief clown himself with bs

[Ram]

U two started with personal attack u know with lines like people think youo are this and that what you have to say about that.. and yes I did caught u lying and hence mentioned that and then u give me lecture of please don;t get personal routine..

That is not an attack , its an observation. And i am fed up of hearing you calling me a liar and all that crap. Yea DR , i lied. I killed two people last and told the judge they fell off the roof by accident. :haha: