Indians predated Newton 'discovery'

[Gambit]

Indians predated Newton 'discovery' by 250 years A little known school of scholars in southwest India discovered one of the founding principles of modern mathematics hundreds of years before Newton according to new research. Dr George Gheverghese Joseph from The University of Manchester says the 'Kerala School' identified the 'infinite series'- one of the basic components of calculus - in about 1350. The discovery is currently - and wrongly - attributed in books to Sir Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibnitz at the end of the seventeenth centuries. The team from the Universities of Manchester and Exeter reveal the Kerala School also discovered what amounted to the Pi series and used it to calculate Pi correct to 9, 10 and later 17 decimal places. And there is strong circumstantial evidence that the Indians passed on their discoveries to mathematically knowledgeable Jesuit missionaries who visited India during the fifteenth century. That knowledge, they argue, may have eventually been passed on to Newton himself. Dr Joseph made the revelations while trawling through obscure Indian papers for a yet to be published third edition of his best selling book 'The Crest of the Peacock: the Non-European Roots of Mathematics' by Princeton University Press. He said: "The beginnings of modern maths is usually seen as a European achievement but the discoveries in medieval India between the fourteenth and sixteenth centuries have been ignored or forgotten. "The brilliance of Newton's work at the end of the seventeenth century stands undiminished - especially when it came to the algorithms of calculus. "But other names from the Kerala School, notably Madhava and Nilakantha, should stand shoulder to shoulder with him as they discovered the other great component of calculus- infinite series. "There were many reasons why the contribution of the Kerala school has not been acknowledged - a prime reason is neglect of scientific ideas emanating from the Non-European world - a legacy of European colonialism and beyond. "But there is also little knowledge of the medieval form of the local language of Kerala, Malayalam, in which some of most seminal texts, such as the Yuktibhasa, from much of the documentation of this remarkable mathematics is written." He added: "For some unfathomable reasons, the standard of evidence required to claim transmission of knowledge from East to West is greater than the standard of evidence required to knowledge from West to East. "Certainly it's hard to imagine that the West would abandon a 500-year-old tradition of importing knowledge and books from India and the Islamic world. "But we've found evidence which goes far beyond that: for example, there was plenty of opportunity to collect the information as European Jesuits were present in the area at that time. "They were learned with a strong background in maths and were well versed in the local languages. "And there was strong motivation: Pope Gregory XIII set up a committee to look into modernising the Julian calendar. "On the committee was the German Jesuit astronomer/mathematician Clavius who repeatedly requested information on how people constructed calendars in other parts of the world. The Kerala School was undoubtedly a leading light in this area. "Similarly there was a rising need for better navigational methods including keeping accurate time on voyages of exploration and large prizes were offered to mathematicians who specialised in astronomy. "Again, there were many such requests for information across the world from leading Jesuit researchers in Europe. Kerala mathematicians were hugely skilled in this area." Source: University of Manchester http://www.physorg.com/news106238636.html

[CC1981]

I've said it a million times and i say it again- every single western european scientific accomplishment up to the mid/late 1800s, barring steam engines, was already done and dusted in India by the 1400s.

[THX_1138]

i would take all such information and news with a pinch of salt and intelligent skeptisism. while it is very likely that the mathematicians of the Gupta and pre Gupta period were incredible, the sheer lack of evidence and documentation (a significant majority of which was destroyed by later islamic rulers as they destroyed the library at alexandria) emplores us to recognize the genius of Sir Isaac Newton, Leibnitz, the Beurnoullis, Fourier, Laplace and the countless other french mathematicians.

[CC1981]

emplores us to recognize the genius of Sir Isaac Newton, Leibnitz, the Beurnoullis, Fourier, Laplace and the countless other french mathematicians.

Whether Indians discovered newtonian physics or not takes nothing away from newton - he was a genius and a great thinker- just not the first to think along those lines. As far as documentation goes- there is enough documentation to support the idea that all these stuff were discovered in ancient india. Aryabhatta calculates sidereal year of the earth accurate to within six seconds of current NASA figures- that is 6 seconds error in an entire year or an error of 1.9 * 10^( -5) !!! Now, someone with understanding of science would immediately know that such accuracy in sidereal period of the earth can ONLY be calculated by kepler's law of motion, which relies on Netwon's laws fundamentally. Deductive reasoning leads to a lot sounder conclusion than anal-retentiveness of western science with it failing to recognize its proof-based mentality. Similarly, madhavan school of mathematics extrapolates fourier series in the 1400s. Now, even though there is no proof of the chain rule in differentiation, it'd be pretty retarded to think the indians didnt know the chain rule but figured out the fourier series ( which is impossible, really). a little bit more logic would help a lot more.

[Ram]

Just as a sidelight, Is Predated a correct usage ? Never seen it used anywhere before.

[Gambit]

I recently read somewhere that Newton wrote more about religion than he did about science or maths. He was obsessed with the Bible.

[sandtest]

One of the most vibrant contribution of ancient Indic civilization is ''Vedic Mathematics" It's sad that India -- the originators have ignored this in modern time. Although after Islamic invasion many of Vedic Mathematics related works were lost. Dr. L.M. Singhavi has written book about primary Vedic Mathematics....some who know abt it say that calculations by using Vedic Mathematics methods become much faster and simpler. NASA has also recognised this and some scientific techniques symbolized in Vedas.

[THX_1138]

One of the most vibrant contribution of ancient Indic civilization is ''Vedic Mathematics" It's sad that India -- the originators have ignored this in modern time. Although after Islamic invasion many of Vedic Mathematics related works were lost. Dr. L.M. Singhavi has written book about primary Vedic Mathematics....some who know abt it say that calculations by using Vedic Mathematics methods become much faster and simpler. NASA has also recognised this and some scientific techniques symbolized in Vedas.

read that book (or somethign similar to that measure) this past summer when my brother was using it for his CAT exams... its nothing particularly genius and quite honestly being able to calculate at high speed is nothing spectacular, we have computers to do that.

[THX_1138]

I recently read somewhere that Newton wrote more about religion than he did about science or maths. He was obsessed with the Bible.

that is news to me. to the best of my knowledge, most of the mathematicians and physists such as newton, kepler, and the french boys were all closet atheists.

[THX_1138]

One of the most vibrant contribution of ancient Indic civilization is ''Vedic Mathematics" It's sad that India -- the originators have ignored this in modern time. Although after Islamic invasion many of Vedic Mathematics related works were lost. Dr. L.M. Singhavi has written book about primary Vedic Mathematics....some who know abt it say that calculations by using Vedic Mathematics methods become much faster and simpler. NASA has also recognised this and some scientific techniques symbolized in Vedas.

i dont want to put you in a spot dude, but this is some hyperbole we indians often indulge in. you would be hard pressed to provide me one valid evidence to support that claim. and yeah, wikipedia is not a valid source.

[THX_1138]

Whether Indians discovered newtonian physics or not takes nothing away from newton - he was a genius and a great thinker- just not the first to think along those lines. As far as documentation goes- there is enough documentation to support the idea that all these stuff were discovered in ancient india. Aryabhatta calculates sidereal year of the earth accurate to within six seconds of current NASA figures- that is 6 seconds error in an entire year or an error of 1.9 * 10^( -5) !!! Now, someone with understanding of science would immediately know that such accuracy in sidereal period of the earth can ONLY be calculated by kepler's law of motion, which relies on Netwon's laws fundamentally. Deductive reasoning leads to a lot sounder conclusion than anal-retentiveness of western science with it failing to recognize its proof-based mentality. Similarly, madhavan school of mathematics extrapolates fourier series in the 1400s. Now, even though there is no proof of the chain rule in differentiation, it'd be pretty retarded to think the indians didnt know the chain rule but figured out the fourier series ( which is impossible, really). a little bit more logic would help a lot more.

ha ha good one. Fourier Transform from the "madhavan school of mathematics",

[CC1981]

ha ha good one. Fourier Transform from the "madhavan school of mathematics"' date='[/quote'] yes. As i said, you know far less than you think you do. As i said, engage your brain a bit and think on (if you are scientifically trained enough) what one *must* know before one knows something in science. As i said, if you give taylor series or McLaurin series and volume calculation through integration, it is pretty retarded to think they didnt know the fundamental theorem of calculus, just because they didn't state it.

[feverpitch]

that is news to me. to the best of my knowledge' date=' most of the mathematicians and physists such as newton, kepler, and the french boys were all closet atheists.[/quote'] Newton was a fundie who believed that the Bible was the word of God. He was into apocalyptic predictions and generally discouraged people from trusting his own discoveries to that of the word of God.

[Gaurav]

A smart scientist is normally an atheist. There are exceptions obviously.

[THX_1138]

yes. As i said, you know far less than you think you do. As i said, engage your brain a bit and think on (if you are scientifically trained enough) what one *must* know before one knows something in science. As i said, if you give taylor series or McLaurin series and volume calculation through integration, it is pretty retarded to think they didnt know the fundamental theorem of calculus, just because they didn't state it.

believe me, i am significantly more learned than you... and just to point out your google ninja tactics again, taylor series and mclaurin series are not mutually independent. moreover, it was the remark that "fourier series" came from the madhavan school of mathematics that i found most humorous.

[THX_1138]

Newton was a fundie who believed that the Bible was the word of God. He was into apocalyptic predictions and generally discouraged people from trusting his own discoveries to that of the word of God.

dang! what was he smoking??? the man just lost a lot of respect in my eyes.

[CC1981]

taylor series and mclaurin series are not mutually independent.

Where the fook have i said that they are ?!? What i said is your assessment in the statement " the sheer lack of evidence and documentation (a significant majority of which was destroyed by later islamic rulers as they destroyed the library at alexandria) emplores us to recognize the genius of Sir Isaac Newton, Leibnitz, the Beurnoullis, Fourier, Laplace and the countless other french mathematicians." is ridiculously illogical and false. As i said, it takes nothing away from Netwon/Leibnitz if they were not the first discoverers, since it is pretty categoric that they were independent discoverers. As i also said, your whole 'sheer lack of evidence' spiel is rather dumb, because there is a lot one can extrapolate about sciences. Like if you SEE tailor series/mclaurin mentioned, its pretty retarded to go 'indians did not know the chain rule' because you CANNOT get to tailor/mclaurin series without knowing the chain rule. But as i said before, you are blissfully unaware of the logical limitations of your field ( science, particularly, western philosophy of science).

it was the remark that "fourier series" came from the madhavan school of mathematics that i found most humorous.

You found it humorous because : a) Your thinking in terms of science is a bit too western b) You are simply unaware of the scientific accomplishments of non-western schools to the level history shows us.

[CC1981]

dang! what was he smoking??? the man just lost a lot of respect in my eyes.

He wasn't smoking anything- i find it hard to believe you've never run into religious book-thumpers of the abrahamic variety who at the same time are quite well qualified in the sciences. Newton was no exception. In his days, you did science in Europe under strict watch of the church and usually the objective was to 'further validate God of the bible'. It wasn't until Baruch Spinoza ( you may be familiar with him through 'spinoza's God' hypothesis) popularized the school of continental rationalism from descartes did the western science gain some sanity.

[Gambit]

that is news to me. to the best of my knowledge' date=' most of the mathematicians and physists such as newton, kepler, and the french boys were all closet atheists.[/quote'] Yeah. This is where I read about him being obsessed with God. Link

[Guest dada_rocks]

Rationalist which scienitsts have to be, doesn't nevessarily have to be an atheist. Religion word encompassed wide array of rationalist aspirations ranging from the complete freedom to question anythign including existance fo Goditself to regulating every aspect of human existance. Once I have had the fortune of listening to Roger Penrose. His closing lines after an hour long arduous presentation on Quantum theory was following... " IF all else fails then make a beeline to hindu scriptures you will find some rational answer to the most of the paradoxial questions."