Crookbond Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 ^ I see a very interesting contradiction between the reactions to the first and the third statements. When she calls on women to be modern and take the work "sexy" lightly, she is being criticized, but when she tells women not to blindly follow the west and dress modestly, she is being criticized as well. So, the Indian woman wants to dress provocatively, wants to go to bars, night clubs, wants to party, booze and do drugs, all for the sake of modernity, but does not want to be called sexy? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSK Fan Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 ^ I see a very interesting contradiction between the reactions to the first and the third statements. When she calls on women to be modern and take the work "sexy" lightly, she is being criticized, but when she tells women not to blindly follow the west and dress modestly, she is being criticized as well. So, the Indian woman wants to dress provocatively, wants to go to bars, night clubs, wants to party, booze and do drugs, all for the sake of modernity, but does not want to be called sexy? Huh? A woman can be dressed whatever way she wants without the guys having no right to call her anything. Just like if a guy wants to go about in wollen coats in summer, I still dont have a right to call him an idiot and taunt him. The whole problem arises when people seem to thing they have the right to comment on women based on their clothes, they dont. they should just shut the ferk up and mind their own businees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 So, the Indian woman wants to dress provocatively, wants to go to bars, night clubs, wants to party, booze and do drugs, all for the sake of modernity, but does not want to be called sexy? That dichotomy is hardly surprising. The increase in eve-teasing incidents, as horrifying as they are, should also encourage Indian society to ask certain questions: a) Whats the common sense quotient for a Indian girl?? I mean many such incidents seem to be of young girls coming out of bars at 2 am. Call me prude, and I will contest that, but who amongst us (even those who are shouting that women should dress whatever they like) would have their sisters and wifes and mothers go out of the house at 2 am? This just seems so retarded. These ladies, and my apologies for being harsh, think India is a very safe country at 2 am?? b) Quick development in past 2 decades and its affect on Indian society. Till about 80s overwhelming marriages were arranged. Thats how most of our parents got married. In 90s it changed to love cum arranged marriage. Today it is about love affairs, live-in relationships, and getting to bars at 2 am. I mean come on does a society change that fast? Anywhere in the world? Girls, or guys, going to discotheque at 2 am would do good to know these didnt exist say 10 years back. There is a bit of learning/maturing curve Indian society has to get through on this one. c) Callousness. Much as I appreciate the outrage of young girls and guys, I also am disappointed at the immediate response. I mean its not that women in 80s and 90s were not going out. But if a girl was molested there was a immediate response by men, and women. Not trying to portray everything as hunky-dory back then but you will see men of mohalla immediately beating the majnus black and blue. I find it odd that bulk of folks today blame it on Indian male, his desperateness, sex ratio etc but nobody, specially guys, admit how soft and cowardly they have become!! Thats my judgemental post of the day. Time to hit gym so suck on it folks!:two_thumbs_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Government Railway Police rapped over 'unofficial' hunt for Guwahati molester http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhubaneswar/Government-Railway-Police-rapped-over-unofficial-hunt-for-Guwahati-molester/articleshow/15028850.cms Seriuosly Railway SP? This guy should be fired first for punishing those who voluntatrily do a search op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Huh? A woman can be dressed whatever way she wants without the guys having no right to call her anything. Just like if a guy wants to go about in wollen coats in summer' date=' I still dont have a right to call him an idiot and taunt him. The whole problem arises when people seem to thing they have the right to comment on women based on their clothes, they dont. they should just shut the ferk up and mind their own businees[/quote'] Are we living in perfect world? What about a guy who dresses like a woman? Do you think people including women will not comment on him.What about the police officer who started dressing like a woman. He became a national news.The fact is people do talk, laugh, do gossip about others.They even call them various names based on their clothing,behaviour etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nballa Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Guwahati: award for key accused raised to Rs. 1 lakh http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Guwahati/Guwahati-award-for-key-accused-raised-to-Rs-1-lakh/Article1-889782.aspx hmm 1 lakh award for each of the accused? im sure they are going to show up to collect the award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombiePotato Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Guwahati molestation case: Main accused was in Mumbai, still not arrested http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/guwahati-molestation-case-main-accused-was-in-mumbai-still-not-arrested-245081?pfrom=home-otherstories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 And with the latest census we now know that our sex ratio is only gonna get more loopy. Give us 20-30 years and the loopy sexy ratio could turn into a major problem very valid point, and to add to it its the less educated blue collar population that has the most adverse sex ratio and they usually are the ones who are most belligerent. Its going to get pretty nauseating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suraj Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 As every day passes seems like this is another outrageous incident that will be lost and forgotten some of the not connected folks probably got rounded up (maybe innocent maybe not) and the well connected ones will be running for elections/ featuring in movies or living happy lives somewhere As shown in every other Bollywood movie- "mamla thanda hone tak kahin gayab ho jaane ka" With a weak, outnumbered police force & legal system how the heck is law and order going to improve if there is no clear deterrents through strong punishment in such obvious crimes with all the evidence:(( simply sickening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PriyankaSR Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think the man filming it needs to be seriously slapped. He could have tried to ****ing save her rather than recording it. That would've been a LOT better than filming her being stripped naked and showing it to whole of India. I Don't think anybody like to be broadcast-ed naked even if its for the sake of awareness or ****. Its not like we Indians need this kind of awareness to inform us of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bihutoli Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think the man filming it needs to be seriously slapped. He could have tried to ****ing save her rather than recording it. That would've been a LOT better than filming her being stripped naked and showing it to whole of India. I Don't think anybody like to be broadcast-ed naked even if its for the sake of awareness or ****. Its not like we Indians need this kind of awareness to inform us of the situation. There's talk gathering a lot of momentum, that the reporter instigated the mob, and the main guy molesting the girl was the reporter's friend. He's (the reporter) been arrested today btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think the man filming it needs to be seriously slapped. He could have tried to ****ing save her rather than recording it. That would've been a LOT better than filming her being stripped naked and showing it to whole of India. I Don't think anybody like to be broadcast-ed naked even if its for the sake of awareness or ****. Its not like we Indians need this kind of awareness to inform us of the situation. [Assuming that (recording) reporter was not one of the instigator.] This is not bollywood that you can beat around countless baddies like a hero w/o breaking sweat.... Unless you are a trained martial artist / champion boxer and baddies are unarmed - you can't do **** against even 3-4 people - and here they were more than 10-15. Informing police, and capturing evidence is best an individual could do against such large group. Back to actual incident, it is indeed surprising that mob allowed to be filmed, and no one noticed/objected the photographer/reporter for full 30 minutes. In normal world, he would have been beaten to pulp, recording equipment snatched and destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 That dichotomy is hardly surprising. The increase in eve-teasing incidents, as horrifying as they are, should also encourage Indian society to ask certain questions: a) Whats the common sense quotient for a Indian girl?? I mean many such incidents seem to be of young girls coming out of bars at 2 am. Call me prude, and I will contest that, but who amongst us (even those who are shouting that women should dress whatever they like) would have their sisters and wifes and mothers go out of the house at 2 am? This just seems so retarded. These ladies, and my apologies for being harsh, think India is a very safe country at 2 am?? b) Quick development in past 2 decades and its affect on Indian society. Till about 80s overwhelming marriages were arranged. Thats how most of our parents got married. In 90s it changed to love cum arranged marriage. Today it is about love affairs, live-in relationships, and getting to bars at 2 am. I mean come on does a society change that fast? Anywhere in the world? Girls, or guys, going to discotheque at 2 am would do good to know these didnt exist say 10 years back. There is a bit of learning/maturing curve Indian society has to get through on this one. c) Callousness. Much as I appreciate the outrage of young girls and guys, I also am disappointed at the immediate response. I mean its not that women in 80s and 90s were not going out. But if a girl was molested there was a immediate response by men, and women. Not trying to portray everything as hunky-dory back then but you will see men of mohalla immediately beating the majnus black and blue. I find it odd that bulk of folks today blame it on Indian male, his desperateness, sex ratio etc but nobody, specially guys, admit how soft and cowardly they have become!! Thats my judgemental post of the day. Time to hit gym so suck on it folks!:two_thumbs_up: Lurker, I agree with most of what you say, but point number 1 I vehemently disagree. The whole sister/daughter question when it comes to how they are dressed etc, is really insulting to women. They are not the properties of men for us to say/dictate how they dress or how they should behave etc, this is the same line of justification muslim men give for purdahs etc. As an individual the woman can choose to dress and do what she pleases, if she is a young girl the parents should guide their daughters, but the whole will you LET your sisters etc dress like this? questions should never be uttered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Lurker, I agree with most of what you say, but point number 1 I vehemently disagree. The whole sister/daughter question when it comes to how they are dressed etc, is really insulting to women. They are not the properties of men for us to say/dictate how they dress or how they should behave etc, this is the same line of justification muslim men give for purdahs etc. As an individual the woman can choose to dress and do what she pleases, if she is a young girl the parents should guide their daughters, but the whole will you LET your sisters etc dress like this? questions should never be uttered. Triam. I didnt mean that in the first place, perhaps I didnt express it vividly. My assertion is rather simple. Your behavior should be driven by common sense. A mob molesting girls is absolutely reprehnsible, but young girls coming out of discotheque/club at 2 am, specially in cities/town that have women mishandling is a completely avoidable scenario. My question on dressing was actually not about dressing at all. It was more along the lines of even those who suggest completely dressing freedom for women would not allow their own female members to go out of home at 2 am. So why this hypocracy really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Thanks for the clarification Lurker. As an aside, circumstances like it is a bar, she is dressed skimpily etc are not really true. Rape/molesting is an act of establishing territory/ power over the weak, nothing else to do with carnal pleasures or anything else, unless you are mentally deranged. (Frankly which rapist gets pleasure out of the ordeal) it is not a sexual crime but it is an oppressive, control oriented crime. To substantiate what I am saying, can you guess which US organization/industry has the most amount of rapes per year? Not the fashion indsutry not the movie industry (all places where women dress sexily, and numerous situations etc) but the US military 19000 sexual assaults and rapes per year. So please do not justify saying women should take precautions/dress better/ dont get drunk etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Thanks for the clarification Lurker. As an aside, circumstances like it is a bar, she is dressed skimpily etc are not really true. Rape/molesting is an act of establishing territory/ power over the weak, nothing else to do with carnal pleasures or anything else, unless you are mentally deranged. (Frankly which rapist gets pleasure out of the ordeal) it is not a sexual crime but it is an oppressive, control oriented crime. To substantiate what I am saying, can you guess which US organization/industry has the most amount of rapes per year? Not the fashion indsutry not the movie industry (all places where women dress sexily, and numerous situations etc) but the US military 19000 sexual assaults and rapes per year. So please do not justify saying women should take precautions/dress better/ dont get drunk etc etc. Come on Triam, its not the same is it? I mean a child going to school and getting molested is one thing. The same child going to a bad neighbourhood and getting molested is another matter altogether. You can, and I sure will, argue that the child should not have been in the latter place in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Come on Triam, its not the same is it? I mean a child going to school and getting molested is one thing. The same child going to a bad neighbourhood and getting molested is another matter altogether. You can, and I sure will, argue that the child should not have been in the latter place in the first place. Lurker, but we are looking at the problem from two different places. You are seeing the effect, I am stating the cause, rape is a crime that is done to enforce power over the weak. This is not analogous to being robbed, robbery the root cause is greed or need. Rape the root cause is neither, it is just a vehicle to establish the physical superiority/ strength over the weaker one. wouldnt you agree? The second part of this is what % of rapes do you think happen because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time? as opposed to thinking you are in a safe place and still getting raped? For all the discos/bars etc in India the % of women who go to these in India should be less than 5% wouldnt you agree? In thta 5% the number of people who get raped is probably another 5%. Now think about how many women get molested/raped atlest once in their life? close to 80%? The percentages are so low for being in the wrong place at the wrong time it does not make sense to talk about it, which is what I am getting at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Lurker, but we are looking at the problem from two different places. You are seeing the effect, I am stating the cause, rape is a crime that is done to enforce power over the weak. This is not analogous to being robbed, robbery the root cause is greed or need. Rape the root cause is neither, it is just a vehicle to establish the physical superiority/ strength over the weaker one. wouldnt you agree? The second part of this is what % of rapes do you think happen because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time? as opposed to thinking you are in a safe place and still getting raped? For all the discos/bars etc in India the % of women who go to these in India should be less than 5% wouldnt you agree? In thta 5% the number of people who get raped is probably another 5%. Now think about how many women get molested/raped atlest once in their life? close to 80%? The percentages are so low for being in the wrong place at the wrong time it does not make sense to talk about it, which is what I am getting at Sure. I get that Triam. My assertion is rather that you have to look at these incidents on a case to case basis. A molestation by mob in Guwahati is not the same as molestation of girls coming out of bar in Chandigarh. Obviously my entire premise is not built around bar hopping women, that was a point put forth to show how many of these can be avoided simply with a common sense. By the way, this whole bar-lead-to-molestation is not only an Indian thing. If you look closely in Western world, most young women face that situation in their life one time or other. Right from spiking drinks to being taken advantage of after being tipsy. It just that in West women come out and often the rapists land behind bars while in India they fade in the darkness...leading to more crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 I am stating the cause, rape is a crime that is done to enforce power over the weak. This is not analogous to being robbed, robbery the root cause is greed or need. Rape the root cause is neither, it is just a vehicle to establish the physical superiority/ strength over the weaker one. wouldnt you agree? There is no hard and fast rule for any crime, that includes Rape too.Rape could be about sex, power or fun or anything. .Men too want to establish their authority over weaker men and for that they beat them , humilate them but don't rape them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Sure. I get that Triam. My assertion is rather that you have to look at these incidents on a case to case basis. A molestation by mob in Guwahati is not the same as molestation of girls coming out of bar in Chandigarh. Obviously my entire premise is not built around bar hopping women, that was a point put forth to show how many of these can be avoided simply with a common sense. By the way, this whole bar-lead-to-molestation is not only an Indian thing. If you look closely in Western world, most young women face that situation in their life one time or other. Right from spiking drinks to being taken advantage of after being tipsy. It just that in West women come out and often the rapists land behind bars while in India they fade in the darkness...leading to more crimes. Lurker, even in the US atleast the % of bar related sex crimes dwarf other sex crimes that happen at schools/churches/offices etc. And I disagree most of these situations can be avoided by common sense applied by the victim. That is so unfair, when you were in your teenages I am sure you went beyond common sense and did things/ were in places which you knew are pretty dangerous, I am sure I did . We all did stupid/crazy things because at that age you have that curiosity/ feeling of immortality/ irrational confidence that nothing can happen to you etc. Expecting just females to be on guard, apply common sense especially when they are in their teenage/early twenties is patently wrong dont you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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