Lurker Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 And I disagree most of these situations can be avoided by common sense applied by the victim. That is so unfair, when you were in your teenages I am sure you went beyond common sense and did things/ were in places which you knew are pretty dangerous, I am sure I did . We all did stupid/crazy things because at that age you have that curiosity/ feeling of immortality/ irrational confidence that nothing can happen to you etc. Expecting just females to be on guard, apply common sense especially when they are in their teenage/early twenties is patently wrong dont you think? See thats where it starts getting murky. The argument would be clouded by one's experience, his generation and his social upbringing, amongst other things. If you ask me, when I was around that age me and my friends did a bunch of bad things, but we didnt get sucked into drink/drugs/discotheque. And thats not just my hometown, it was the same scene when I was in Mumbai mind you. I know it seems overly harsh but this is a rather recent pheonomenon. In my generation, dont want to sound melodramatic, the focus was more on getting a job and then working your butt off. Partially because getting a job was not that easy in the first place. You had many capable and smart people who didnt get a job. So you put your head down and worked hard. We had our own celebrations but nothing like this. Today getting job is easier (relatively) and so is the money that comes with it. Hence people can be a bit more careless. Again not being judgemental but just saying as I have seen. And bear in mind I am not a rabid right wing female crushing MCP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 See thats where it starts getting murky. The argument would be clouded by one's experience, his generation and his social upbringing, amongst other things. If you ask me, when I was around that age me and my friends did a bunch of bad things, but we didnt get sucked into drink/drugs/discotheque. And thats not just my hometown, it was the same scene when I was in Mumbai mind you. I know it seems overly harsh but this is a rather recent pheonomenon. In my generation, dont want to sound melodramatic, the focus was more on getting a job and then working your butt off. Partially because getting a job was not that easy in the first place. You had many capable and smart people who didnt get a job. So you put your head down and worked hard. We had our own celebrations but nothing like this. Today getting job is easier (relatively) and so is the money that comes with it. Hence people can be a bit more careless. Again not being judgemental but just saying as I have seen. And bear in mind I am not a rabid right wing female crushing MCP. Regarding the bolded part, I know that very well otherwise wudnt have gotten into the discussion with you (with age comes the wisdom not to get into internet wars :)) But that is a generational thing what we did and what kids do today (i am pretty sure we are in the same generation age wise). I got into groups with getting drunk, bunking school/college etc to do stupid ****, (drugs etc were not accessible to the income group I used to hang around with). Discos yeah heard about it but the social/economic circle I was part of had no access toit, would I have gone for discos if I had access to it, you bet I would have, who doesnt fantasize about girls in that age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Regarding the bolded part, I know that very well otherwise wudnt have gotten into the discussion with you (with age comes the wisdom not to get into internet wars :)) Likewise Triam. I got into groups with getting drunk, bunking school/college etc to do stupid ****, (drugs etc were not accessible to the income group I used to hang around with). Discos yeah heard about it but the social/economic circle I was part of had no access toit, would I have gone for discos if I had access to it, you bet I would have, who doesnt fantasize about girls in that age. lol..True that. Well I wouldnt be coming out of bars at 2 am, have to get up at 5 for my gym..no girl is worth missing gym for :wink3: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSK Fan Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I got into groups with getting drunk' date=' bunking school/college etc to do stupid ****, (drugs etc were not accessible to the income group I used to hang around with). Discos yeah heard about it but the social/economic circle I was part of had no access toit, would I have gone for discos if I had access to it, you bet I would have, who doesnt fantasize about girls in that age.[/quote'] Hey, you are a guy so you are entitled to have fun and do whatever the fark you want. But for a lady, we have scores of males here advising what they should 'avoid' and suggest what they should wear. Since they thenselves are not the victims of these 'advices' they have no idea how restrictive it is for women and how insulting their 'advises' are. They can only know how much a woman is really careful throughout her life and if she lets her gaurd off for one single day out of her entire life, we have people jumping on her back for being careless Thank God I was born a man in India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSK Fan Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 There is no hard and fast rule for any crime' date=' that includes Rape too.Rape could be about sex, power or fun or anything. .Men too want to establish their authority over weaker men and for that they beat them , humilate them but don't rape them.[/quote'] Nope, there are detailed scientific studies done which shows rape and molestations are all about power and the male egos. Many rapes are done by rich guys who have enough money to get the best girls but they still rapes strangers. Most rapes are planned well in advance and not spur of the moment stuff. BTW, you are also wrong about the men part, their have been many cases when men established authority on men by raping them. Its happens in prisons all the time Rape is never ever about fun, what the rapist enjoys is the victims humiliation and helplessness, not the act of sex. He feels empowered and his ego is boosted by demeaning a woman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Hey, you are a guy so you are entitled to have fun and do whatever the fark you want. But for a lady, we have scores of males here advising what they should 'avoid' and suggest what they should wear. Since they thenselves are not the victims of these 'advices' they have no idea how restrictive it is for women and how insulting their 'advises' are. They can only know how much a woman is really careful throughout her life and if she lets her gaurd off for one single day out of her entire life, we have people jumping on her back for being careless Thank God I was born a man in India. Dude, get off the grid there, no reason to raise the jhanda again. I agree with you - Thank God I was born a man in India. The transition for men, of 80s/90s if you will, has been lot smoother and better. Unlike our Dads we cook, we clean, we take care of our babies. Look around and you will see many a guys , specially middle class, who are now as competent a cook as their women counterpart. In fact I will argue girls of modern India may very well be wearing less and also knowing less cooking. Definitely lot less than their own Moms. You can call me sexist if you please. By the by ever wondered why this whole female equality in India, somehow always turns towards the usual - what can she wear/what can she not wear/ where does she go at 2 am yada yada. How about women being sexually discriminated at work? Or when women are not being allowed to come on top of a company because well they are women? Bring them out and you will see where many men stand. I have more time for career woman and intelligent woman, less for bar hoppers (man or woman). Yes you can call me discriminationist too :giggle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Nope, there are detailed scientific studies done which shows rape and molestations are all about power and the male egos. Many rapes are done by rich guys who have enough money to get the best girls but they still rapes strangers. Most rapes are planned well in advance and not spur of the moment stuff. BTW, you are also wrong about the men part, their have been many cases when men established authority on men by raping them. Its happens in prisons all the time Rape is never ever about fun, what the rapist enjoys is the victims humiliation and helplessness, not the act of sex. He feels empowered and his ego is boosted by demeaning a woman There are several scientific studies to find causes of sexual voilence and there is no definate conclusion what rape sexual voilence is about Causes of sexual violence There is no single theory that conclusively explains the causes of sexual violence; the motives of perpetrators can be multi-factorial and are the subject of debate. Researchers have attempted to explain the motivations in terms of socioeconomics, anger, power, sadism, sexual pleasure, psychopathy, ethical standards, attitudes toward the victims and evolutionary pressures. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence Scientific Study Concludes: Rape is a Natural Product of Evolution Scripps Howard News Service - January 11, 2000 Rape is not, typically, the crime of male domination it has been portrayed as by sociologists and feminists in recent years, says a University of New Mexico biology professor. Instead, UNM's Randy Thornhill and Colorado anthropologist Craig T. Palmer have developed a new theory that rape is a complex sexual crime with strong roots in human evolution. Moreover, contend Thornhill and Palmer, rape "prevention efforts will founder until they are based on the understanding that rape evolved as a form of male reproductive behavior." "We have to get real about rape," Thornhill said in a recent interview. http://www.anusha.com/rapeevol.htm http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_politics.html Sixth, most rapists themselves say that sex was the motivating factor underlying their crimes. Professor Lee Ellis of Minot State University wrote, Ŧven among rapists who victimize strangers, self-reports have given little indication that their real objective is to dominate their victims (or women generally), except to the extent that doing so aids in gaining copulatory access. Thornhill and Palmer concur with Professor Ellis and specifically mention a doctoral dissertation authored by S. Smithyman that found 84% of rapists reported that sex, in whole or part, was the motivating force behind their actions. Contradictory research, often referred to by feminists, which claims that rapists report power and control as their motivation, frequently contain serious flaws. For example, many were done with incarcerated rapists, or other rapists whoÃÅ already been ÅÓe-educated to give the ÅÄorrect response, while still others were done with rapists who may have believed that proclaiming a non-sexual motive was more likely to lead to their being deemed enlightened and thus ÅÄured. Although self-reporting is by definition biased, the least confounded proclamations by rapists supports the contention that sex is the driving force behind the act of rape. As far prison male rapes in prison are concerned ,the question is why only prison , because there are no women in prison.Infact it is the younger and feminine men are targeted for rape . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Guwahati molestation prime accused Amar Jyoti Kalita arrested in Varanasi http://ibnlive.in.com/news/guwahati-prime-accused-kalita-arrested-in-up/273658-3-251.html Kalita fled Guwahati after the molestation video went viral on the Internet and was shown by news channels. He was seen in Odisha, Mumbai and Kolkata. Kalita was seen at the Howrah railway station only three days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suraj Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Guwahati molestation prime accused Amar Jyoti Kalita arrested in Varanasi http://ibnlive.in.com/news/guwahati-prime-accused-kalita-arrested-in-up/273658-3-251.html I am waiting for some more fishy stories to come live now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Arre re re....that girl was only 16. OMG. just 16. First thing came to my mind was ""kide padenge in rakshaso main...phir socha kido ki beijjati ho gayee" Speachless. kya democracy hai. Where mob isvreally rulling. Chalo lets wait for another such incidence.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suraj Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Arre re re....that girl was only 16. OMG. just 16. First thing came to my mind was ""kide padenge in rakshaso main...phir socha kido ki beijjati ho gayee" Speachless. kya democracy hai. Where mob isvreally rulling. Chalo lets wait for another such incidence.. so sad and shameful wanna know even more shameful aspect- many many many Indians saying girl's fault- - should not have been out at 2 AM - should not have been near a bar - should cover herself better Mera bharat mahaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nballa Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 i would suggest every one of you guys hanging out with your girl in the streets of india carry a knife. so lets say 20 guys jump on both of you, you kill one or two. rest of them will probably end up beating you to death but the girl will be spared the humiliation amidst the mad scramble to rescue the bleeding goons who you just killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 i would suggest every one of you guys hanging out with your girl in the streets of india carry a knife. so lets say 20 guys jump on both of you' date=' you kill one or two. rest of them will probably end up beating you to death but the girl will be spared the humiliation amidst the mad scramble to rescue the bleeding goons who you just killed.[/quote'] :facepalm: If a guy end up killing 1 then most probably 19 guys and even the girl will run away.Then the police will come and you will be locked up in jail.After that its going to be how much money your family can spend on lawyers.If you are from an average middle class family then get ready for minimum 14 years in jail,by any chance if you end up convincing judge that you did that to save a girl from molestation then you may get reduced sentence ,probably 5 years.In between all this your life will end up completely ruined.Your career ,your job prospects will be over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 ^ it was a sarcastic post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 i would suggest every one of you guys hanging out with your girl in the streets of india carry a knife. so lets say 20 guys jump on both of you' date=' you kill one or two. rest of them will probably end up beating you to death but the girl will be spared the humiliation amidst the mad scramble to rescue the bleeding goons who you just killed.[/quote'] Dude, why even talk about killing? Killing, raping... they are all similar crimes. Crime for crime is not a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSK Fan Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Sure. I get that Triam. My assertion is rather that you have to look at these incidents on a case to case basis. A molestation by mob in Guwahati is not the same as molestation of girls coming out of bar in Chandigarh. Obviously my entire premise is not built around bar hopping women, that was a point put forth to show how many of these can be avoided simply with a common sense. . I agree Lurker and this is why I have a grouse against people who keep on bringing clothings and late night into the equation every time a molestation or assault happens. As you yourself agreed, its a very small % of cases when an assault happened when a woman was inappropriately dressed or was in the wrong place, less than 5% of the time maybe. Yet can you point at one single instance when in any of the cases discussed, someone somehwere didnt bring up the cloths discussion? I have seen this happen in 100% of the cases when some guy or the other (always a guy, mind you) brings up the issue of clothes and wrong place, whether its over the internet or any other media. Isnt that gap kind of huge for something which is not relevant in over 95% of the cases? Dont you see the huge problem with this? How long did it take for this thread to get sidelined once someone brought the clothes and situations instead of focusing on the molesters and condenming them? This happens every single time, each and every time. Some guy brings up clothes and soon everyone forgets about the main culprits. Never mind the small % of women who were thus dressed, never mind that even in these, the issue of the women being careful and her blame is a very tiny propotion than the guilt of the perpetetours. Yet more than 70% of the posts on this thread has been on women's clothes and awareness Therefore, these guys, who keep on commenting on the women's clothes and situations, in every thread, inadverdently cause huge harm in such cases and are indirectly defending the molesters whether they are aware of this or not. We have been diluting the huge issue of assaults on women for ages because of 'intellectuals' who make it a point to deviate the original topic than blaming the molesters. An adult woman is usually aware of her surrooundings and what to wear where. We know for a fact that in this situation the lady was a minor, we know that the only reason she was alone was because she was thrown out of the disc, something she couldnt have expected. Plus the whole thing was planned and orchestrated in advance. Yet, how many guys on this thread have been speaking about her clothes and 2am in the night? I will say this again, guys like these are why we have molesters roaming around. In no other instance are we so myopic that we completely side-track the main issue (women rights) and try to throw mud at something completely irrelevant(clothes, situtations). These guys and the panchayat oldies who banned the use of cell-phone and jeans for women have exactly the same mentality. Their view - "women need to be controlled to keep men in check." .The difference is only in the degrees, not the thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 :hatsoff:I agree Lurker and this is why I have a grouse against people who keep on bringing clothings and late night into the equation every time a molestation or assault happens. As you yourself agreed, its a very small % of cases when an assault happened when a woman was inappropriately dressed or was in the wrong place, less than 5% of the time maybe. Yet can you point at one single instance when in any of the cases discussed, someone somehwere didnt bring up the cloths discussion? I have seen this happen in 100% of the cases when some guy or the other (always a guy, mind you) brings up the issue of clothes and wrong place, whether its over the internet or any other media. Isnt that gap kind of huge for something which is not relevant in over 95% of the cases? Dont you see the huge problem with this? How long did it take for this thread to get sidelined once someone brought the clothes and situations instead of focusing on the molesters and condenming them? This happens every single time, each and every time. Some guy brings up clothes and soon everyone forgets about the main culprits. Never mind the small % of women who were thus dressed, never mind that even in these, the issue of the women being careful and her blame is a very tiny propotion than the guilt of the perpetetours. Yet more than 70% of the posts on this thread has been on women's clothes and awareness Therefore, these guys, who keep on commenting on the women's clothes and situations, in every thread, inadverdently cause huge harm in such cases and are indirectly defending the molesters whether they are aware of this or not. We have been diluting the huge issue of assaults on women for ages because of 'intellectuals' who make it a point to deviate the original topic than blaming the molesters. An adult woman is usually aware of her surrooundings and what to wear where. We know for a fact that in this situation the lady was a minor, we know that the only reason she was alone was because she was thrown out of the disc, something she couldnt have expected. Plus the whole thing was planned and orchestrated in advance. Yet, how many guys on this thread have been speaking about her clothes and 2am in the night? I will say this again, guys like these are why we have molesters roaming around. In no other instance are we so myopic that we completely side-track the main issue (women rights) and try to throw mud at something completely irrelevant(clothes, situtations). These guys and the panchayat oldies who banned the use of cell-phone and jeans for women have exactly the same mentality. Their view - "women need to be controlled to keep men in check." .The difference is only in the degrees, not the thought process. :hatsoff::hatsoff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Cut Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Lack of getting laid leads to violence and violent cultures. Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjabi_khota Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Lack of getting laid leads to violence and violent cultures. Truth. Thats why Buddhist monks are the most violent people in the world :protest: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts