Umesh Yadav - As brainless as ever

[Guest]

i was giving example of current world class bowlers :winky: and how they became world class not saying yadav should play next match or he will improve jsut showing big flaw in our system none of player developed not even batsmen

i am also giving examples of great ODI bowlers just to remind people who like to comapre bolwers how it suits them... by the way Morkel and Steyn are not great ODI bowlers ...yet

[Old guy]

i am also giving examples of great ODI bowlers just to remind people who like to comapre bolwers how it suits them... by the way Morkel and Steyn are not great ODI bowlers ...yet

there are always some bowlers who are pretty good form start but australian system in 90's was totally different they produced international quality cricketers at will but looking at all bowlers bowling today all of them were ok at start terhe respective teams gradually helped them improve another example is starc guy is o right now see him in 2-3 years he will be world class

[The Outsider]

by the way Morkel and Steyn are not great ODI bowlers ...yet

And Yadav is? Who in your opinion has a better chance of getting to great ODI bowlers - Yadav or Steyn/Morkel?

[Old guy]

And Yadav is? Who in your opinion has a better chance of getting to great ODI bowlers - Yadav or Steyn/Morkel?

is that even a question :cantstop:

[rkt.india]

Yes' date=' this is the main point being overlooked. Much more realistic to expect good ODI performances from a Varun Aaron (for example) who averages sub 20 domestically, rather than Yadav who goes at 40+.[/quote'] Agree. Aaron and Yadav have succeeded in different forms in domestic cricket.

[rkt.india]

Bowlers will not develop by getting hammered in international cricket. They are going to develop through good academies, A tours, county cricket, and a constant monitoring of their routines and techniques when they are not playing international cricket. International bowling coaches can help in formulating plans and advising on some basics but with the current workload involved in cricket international bowling coaches will never have the time or the environment to experiment and work with a bowler on a long term basis. And till we can get such a system in place, which is unlikely to happen in my lifetime, the only development an Indian fast bowler would realistically be able to do is to get a lot of overs under his belt in county and domestic cricket. Kapil, Srinath, Zaheer all became good by bowling and bowling more. Zaheer is the most relevant example when he himself talks about how bowling lots of overs in low pressure situations helped him understand his game more and experiment till he got things right. Stakes at the international level are too high and the pressure too much to allow for a dramatic improvement in a bowler. Playing Yadav continuously just based on promise and pace is going to turn him into an Ishant Sharma pretty soon - losing the plot completely about setting up batsmen and achieving consistency because he would be putting too much pressure on himself after continuous failures in the limelight to think and act rationally in order rectify his faults.

Great Post.:two_thumbs_up:

[rkt.india]

Imran also worked hard with bowlers like Akram and Waqar before he asked them to bowl as fast as they could and did not mind them getting hit. But Imran was a huge perfectionist for practice and correcting faults before entering the cricket field. Imran, himself learned it the hard way when for the first few years of his career he was an ordinary bowler before he put in enormous effort and practice to become the bowler he was. The physical conditioning he went through after being out of cricket due to a shin injury for more than a year was hours and hours of practice and hard work. Point is the effort to become a great bowler has to be done away from the field in a systematic manner. Once that effort has been done, there will be days when you still might get hammered but at least there is an awareness and knowledge about your game to work on it on the sidelines and come back strong in the next outing.

That is what our Indian bowlers lack. Ishant, Yadav, Aaron, all have good enough talent. It is the right guidance and practice. This is the reason I advocate to have a good bowling coach at NCA rather than with the Indian team because he will never get much time to work with them with the national team. Have him at the NCA and let him work with younger bowlers. Key to bowling is patience whether a pacer or spinner and our young bowlers lack that. They try to do too much. Same with Yadav. He is not erratice, bowls 145 but does not bowl too many wides like Zaheer bowls sometimes, but what he does is tries too much rather sticking to a line and length. What hurts him the most is his short balls and slower balls. They always go for runs. He is most effective when he bowls full and for a shirt guy full ball should be his main length but then he tries short balls just too many and that too does not rise over hips most often.

[CG]

Bowlers will not develop by getting hammered in international cricket. They are going to develop through good academies, A tours, county cricket, and a constant monitoring of their routines and techniques when they are not playing international cricket. International bowling coaches can help in formulating plans and advising on some basics but with the current workload involved in cricket international bowling coaches will never have the time or the environment to experiment and work with a bowler on a long term basis. And till we can get such a system in place, which is unlikely to happen in my lifetime, the only development an Indian fast bowler would realistically be able to do is to get a lot of overs under his belt in county and domestic cricket. Kapil, Srinath, Zaheer all became good by bowling and bowling more. Zaheer is the most relevant example when he himself talks about how bowling lots of overs in low pressure situations helped him understand his game more and experiment till he got things right. Stakes at the international level are too high and the pressure too much to allow for a dramatic improvement in a bowler. Playing Yadav continuously just based on promise and pace is going to turn him into an Ishant Sharma pretty soon - losing the plot completely about setting up batsmen and achieving consistency because he would be putting too much pressure on himself after continuous failures in the limelight to think and act rationally in order rectify his faults.

Ishant sharma's did not lose his brain overnight ,his problem is technical .Its basis of fastbowling its his seam position.

[The Outsider]

Ishant sharma's did not lose his brain overnight ' date='his problem is technical .Its basis of fastbowling its his seam position.[/quote'] We can differ on it, but my reading it is that it's in Ishant's brain - he can still produce that unplayable delivery or spell as he has done over the last year against England and Australia. Where he is lacking is the consistency to put a group of balls in a 6 inch radius. And this is not me, but the baap of seam bowling, McGrath, who said something on the lines of most of the battle is won if you can make a batsman play on off stump.

[CG]

We can differ on it, but my reading it is that it's in Ishant's brain - he can still produce that unplayable delivery or spell as he has done over the last year against England and Australia. Where he is lacking is the consistency to put a group of balls in a 6 inch radius. And this is not me, but the baap of seam bowling, McGrath, who said something on the lines of most of the battle is won if you can make a batsman play on off stump.

Ishant sharma success came due to his big inswinger,It made the ball that hold its line deadly,Against right handers he was very good even on sc tracks ,but Nowadays he has lost it and is up and down .He has bowled few consistent spells but did not get wickets and term unlucky started being used and his confidence went downhill but was still persisted which compounded the problem.

[The Outsider]

Ishant sharma success came due to his big inswinger' date='It made the ball that hold its line deadly,Against right handers he was very good even on sc tracks ,but Nowadays he has lost it and is up and down .He has bowled few consistent spells but did not get wickets and term unlucky started being used and his confidence went downhill but was still persisted which compounded the problem.[/quote'] I think Ishant's success was because of the ball which held it's line which was preceded by the in cutters. And on the "unlucky" thing we agree - there is no such thing, either you can pick up international cricketers or you can't, in Ishant's case it's "can't" more often than not.

[CG]

I think Ishant's success was because of the ball which held it's line which was preceded by the in cutters. And on the "unlucky" thing we agree - there is no such thing' date=' either you can pick up international cricketers or you can't, in Ishant's case it's "can't" more often than not.[/quote'] inswinger was his stock ball ,he himself said in an interview he does not know when the ball is going to straightn and cannot control it.it was a natural variation which was made potent as batsman were expecting the inswinger offcourse his line was good too ,but with out swing the that line is not working.which leads to frustration and trying diff things also supposedly he believes he has to bowl like a fast bowler,bouncers and yorkers:((.same with umesh as zak said management wants him to be the fast bowler.:((

[The Outsider]

inswinger was his stock ball ' date='he himself said in an interview he does not know when the ball is going to straightn and cannot control it.it was a natural variation which was made potent as batsman were expecting the inswinger offcourse his line was good too ,but with out swing the that line is not working.which leads to frustration and trying diff things also supposedly he believes he has to bowl like a fast bowler,bouncers and yorkers:((.same with umesh as zak said management wants him to be the fast bowler.:(([/quote'] Where did I disagree? I agree that Ishant's stock ball is the in cutter, but his wicket taking delivery is the one which holds the line. Disagree?

[CG]

Where did I disagree? I agree that Ishant's stock ball is the in cutter' date=' but his wicket taking delivery is the one which holds the line. Disagree?[/quote'] you are right. btw i wanted to highlight management role and coaches role in both yadav and umesh case.

[Old guy]

Where did I disagree? I agree that Ishant's stock ball is the in cutter' date=' but his wicket taking delivery is the one which holds the line. Disagree?[/quote'] i think he meant his stock ball was the one which made tht away swinger potent as batsmen were always covering for inswing not for that magic delivery which held its line but after he lost in swing batsmen i think jsut leave his deliveries alone which are pitches jsut out side off earlier they had to poke at them to cover inswing

[The Outsider]

The point is you might have hazaar great stock deliveries and not a wicket taking one, international class batsmen are going to make you impotent, which is what happened to Ishant and I can see happening to Umesh.

[Guest]

And Yadav is? Who in your opinion has a better chance of getting to great ODI bowlers - Yadav or Steyn/Morkel?

people comment during Yadav's failure by showing failures of Morkel and Steyn's begining..but they are not ready to compare with Lee,Akthar or Bond who were better ODI bowlers than these 2 and had great starts to career problem here is people make comparision however suits them :winky:

[bajrang]

people comment during Yadav's failure by showing failures of Morkel and Steyn's begining..but they are not ready to compare with Lee,Akthar or Bond who were better ODI bowlers than these 2 and had great starts to career problem here is people make comparision however suits them :winky:

some people can have brilliant start, but fade afterwards like pathan RP ishant some people are brilliant throughout their career like lee akhtar some pepole can have bad starts but are brilliant afterwards like styen morkel. some people are just plain bad like sami in test. now if you were to start using your brain you would realize that at this point in time yadav career fits with styen or sami type bowler. he didnt had the start like lee so no point comparing him to lee.

[Guest]

some people can have brilliant start, but fade afterwards like pathan RP ishant some people are brilliant throughout their career like lee akhtar some pepole can have bad starts but are brilliant afterwards like styen morkel. some people are just plain bad like sami in test. now if you were to start using your brain you would realize that at this point in time yadav career fits with styen or sami type bowler. he didnt had the start like lee so no point comparing him to lee.

Steyn and Sami in same sentance ......

[bajrang]

Steyn and Sami in same sentance ......

its not "styen and sami" its "styen or sami" notice the "or", there is an "or" between then. which mean he can either be styen or sami depending upon his future performance not both. now was that hard?? i can explain again if you want. i like working with specially able children in my free time.