Ranking India's WC 2011 team

[Crookbond]

That makes one of the reasons but certainly not the best reason or every other bowler rubbish particularly when the format was such that the 3 knock out matches are the ones that matter most. As for stats , only for the knock out matches. M overs Runs wkts Ave Econ SR Harbhajan Singh 3 30.0 0 143 3 47.66 4.76 60.0 Yuvraj Singh 3 30.0 1 150 6 25.00 5.00 30.0 Z Khan 3 29.5 3 171 6 28.50 5.73 29.8 MM Patel 3 26.0 1 125 2 62.50 4.80 78.0 R Ashwin 1 10.0 0 52 2 26.00 5.20 30.0 A Nehra 1 10.0 0 33 2 16.50 3.30 30.0 S Sreesanth 1 8.0 0 52 0 - 6.50 - Whatever way u look at him it doesnt make him our stand out bowler than any of our other bowlers.Every one had their ups and down in the knockout stand and he certainly didnt win us the world cup single handedly

He has 6 wickets and so does Yuvraj Singh which definitely makes both Yuvraj Singh and Zaheer Khan as the stand out bowlers. Btw, I don't think any player has or can win a WC "single handedly". It's a team game after all!

[Ultimate_Game]

He has 6 wickets and so does Yuvraj Singh which definitely makes both Yuvraj Singh and Zaheer Khan as the stand out bowlers. Btw, I don't think any player has or can win a WC "single handedly". It's a team game after all!

No you can't but you sure can have MVP or MVPs who contributed the most to the win.

[Crookbond]

No you can't but you sure can have MVP or MVPs who contributed the most to the win.

Which is exactly what I did with one my earlier post. The MVP's are in the Grade 1 Tier. The numbered rankings won't make much sense. Tiered rankings separate the MVPs from the rest. There's no way Zaheer, Yuvraj , Tendulkar and to a certain extend Gautam Gambhir weren't our MVPs.

[Raghav_12]

Dhoni for two main reasons... 1. He played one of the best innings in the final. When he came in the score was 115/3 while chasing 274 and another wkt at the time would have been curtains for India and it would have been just like WC 2003 once again, i.e. so near and yet so far. For the above 2 reasons Dhoni would be in my top 5 for Wc 2011.

He played second best Innings by an Indian in the final. Gambhir's innings was best that too by a margin. Gambhir came to crease when score was 0-1 and left olny after making an Indian victory almost certain. Dhoni's innings was good, but bulk of his runs came when target had been brought down to less than 100. Dhoni scored 62 of his 91 runs when target was already less than 100 runs,. Not to discredit anything from Dhoni but a situation where target is less than 100 with 7 wickets in hands and required run rate just above 5 is not a very difficult one and batting team would always be favourite to chase that down.. (At the end of 34th Over, India was 175/3, Target 100, RR - 5.14 and Dhoni - 29*)

[saneindian]

He played second best Innings by an Indian in the final. Gambhir's innings was best that too by a margin. Gambhir came to crease when score was 0-1 and left olny after making an Indian victory almost certain. Dhoni's innings was good, but bulk of his runs came when target had been brought down to less than 100. Dhoni scored 62 of his runs when target was already less than 100 runs,. Not to discredit anything from Dhoni but a situation where target is less than 100 with 7 wickets in hands and required run rate just above 5 is not a very difficult one and batting team would always be favourite to chase that down.. (At the end of 34th Over, India was 175/3, Target 100, RR - 5.14 and Dhoni - 29*)

What you forgot to add was out of the remaining 16 overs, 10 were to be bowled by Murali and Mallinga , both of whom had looked nearly impossible to hit till then that evening. Also add the frequent collapses the middle and lower middle order has had in the tournament. Not saying MSD's knock was the best on that night but you are making it sound as if a chase of a run a ball in a WC final playing at home is a stroll in the park.

[The Outsider]

Dhoni for two main reasons... 1. He played one of the best innings in the final. When he came in the score was 115/3 while chasing 274 and another wkt at the time would have been curtains for India and it would have been just like WC 2003 once again, i.e. so near and yet so far.

With Yuvraj and Raina to come and the form they were in, the above is an exaggeration. The hard work was done by Gambhir and to some extent Kohli.

2. Dhoni marshalled his bowling resources wonderfully. He had just one attacking option in Zak and he used him perfectly, making optimal use of his 10 overs. And the way he used his part-timers and other bowlers was commendable. This was India's weakest bowling lineup in a World Cup - I don't know much about 75 & 79 World Cups but since 83 this was the wekest bowling we ever had. To win the tourney with such a bowling lineup does get the captain some credit. Dhoni never let any team get away in the field and made good bowling changes most of the time. For the above 2 reasons Dhoni would be in my top 5 for Wc 2011.

Instead of crediting Zaheer for being the best pace bowler in the tournament by some distance, you are crediting Dhoni with his success. I thought only Ganguly fans were capable of such dishonesty.

[BeautifulGame]

He has 6 wickets and so does Yuvraj Singh which definitely makes both Yuvraj Singh and Zaheer Khan as the stand out bowlers. Btw, I don't think any player has or can win a WC "single handedly". It's a team game after all!

But the difference is Zaheer has the worst economy of all our bowlers(except sreesanth).Thats why he doesnt stand out from the rest of the bowlers. Only bowler that stand outs from the rest of the bowlers in knock out is Yuvi.Also Harbajan's econ rate is exceptional too so if Zak 6 wkts make him stand out same with Bhajji too.

[VRV Singh]

Would have Yuvraj #1 in reference to performances that I doubt could be emulated by others. I think that is the main criteria in this kind of rating. Headed into the tournament with Pathan as the allrounder, but it was Yuvraj who can be said to have prompted the change of tack thereafter and allow Raina in to actually make those contributions. Could not see Yusuf/Raina/Sehwag etc taking these key wickets and always being reliable. 2 - Zaheer - mainly because I think he was a great help to the likes of Munaf and Nehra (when he played) and probably took the lead in field settings etc. Without him the attack would be rudderless. 3 - Tendulkar - consistent runscoring throughout 4 - Gambhir - superb final perfomance 5 - Dhoni - ^^^ but edged out for crappy scores elsewhere. Good calls on-field but certain selections and loyalties certainly did not pay off I think those are the standouts the rest are different distances further back. It's actually more interesting rating 13 14 15 according to the Pile of Crapometer. 13 - Pathan - I cannot remember what this guy actually did (score against Ireland?) apart from a useless promotion or two to try and hit sixes. But at least he was kicked out early. 14 - Peeeeyuuuush - pure pile of crap from the moment of selection. An active source of frustration for all. narrowly losing out to..... 15 - SREESANTH - mainly because at least Piyush did not go as far as to very nearly feck India's chances in a crucial position, and did it early doors. This moron with his pace, swing and stares very nearly did

[Crookbond]

But the difference is Zaheer has the worst economy of all our bowlers(except sreesanth).Thats why he doesnt stand out from the rest of the bowlers. Only bowler that stand outs from the rest of the bowlers in knock out is Yuvi.Also Harbajan's econ rate is exceptional too so if Zak 6 wkts make him stand out same with Bhajji too.

Sir, You are making this argument pedantic now. 5 versus 5.73 for 30 overs Seriously? That's a grand total of 21 runs for 3 matches! You and I both know where the economy rate went "up" - it was mostly bowling at the death. He was the go to man for MS Dhoni throughout the tournament. Need a wicket - here's Z Khan. He was exception around the ball change around 34 overs or in the Batting PP. Your knowledge is more than this. I don't know why you are slicing/dicing data to prove a non-existent point. I can also pick you articles from the Ian Chappell's et al to tell you the importance of Zaheer Khan in the Indian WC winning team. Now, don't press the stat-abuse button please.

[Ultimate_Game]

He played second best Innings by an Indian in the final. Gambhir's innings was best that too by a margin. Gambhir came to crease when score was 0-1 and left olny after making an Indian victory almost certain. Dhoni's innings was good, but bulk of his runs came when target had been brought down to less than 100. Dhoni scored 62 of his 91 runs when target was already less than 100 runs,. Not to discredit anything from Dhoni but a situation where target is less than 100 with 7 wickets in hands and required run rate just above 5 is not a very difficult one and batting team would always be favourite to chase that down.. (At the end of 34th Over, India was 175/3, Target 100, RR - 5.14 and Dhoni - 29*)

Reqd RR was more than 6. Pls check your numbers. The way Dhoni attacked Murali was one of the main reasons India were comfortably placed. Murali's first 5-6 overs were extremely frugal, but the way Dhoni attacked and scored off him Murali became a non-factor.

With Yuvraj and Raina to come and the form they were in, the above is an exaggeration. The hard work was done by Gambhir and to some extent Kohli. Instead of crediting Zaheer for being the best pace bowler in the tournament by some distance, you are crediting Dhoni with his success. I thought only Ganguly fans were capable of such dishonesty.

Yes, Gambhir played a great innings but to say the hard work was already done would be incorrect. Dhoni came to the crease when the score was 115/3 while chasing 274 and if you think it was just a formality than we differ. With Murali & Malinga to counter neither Yuvi nor Raina were a certainty to get the job done and all it needed was 1 or 2 quick wkts for SL to bag the match. In hidsight we think the win was a walk in the park but just imaine what would have happened if we had been 120/4 (i.e., Dhoni had failed). It was one of the best innings under pressure just like Gambhir's was and equally important, if not more. Yes, Zak was brilliant but what about other bowlers or even how to get the most out of Zak's 10 overs? Dhoni used Zak brilliantly. This was our weakest bowling lineup in World Cups (at least since 83 as I can't say anything about 75 & 79 editions where we were practically minnows) and Dhoni somehow managed to make the most of it. When Yuvraj is your 2nd best bowler it says everything about the condition of that sorry lineup. I am sure some credit is due to a captain working with such a huge handicap or maybe you think anyone could have worked with those bowlers.

[Raghav_12]

Reqd RR was more than 6. Pls check your numbers. The way Dhoni attacked Murali was one of the main reasons India were comfortably placed. Murali's first 5-6 overs were extremely frugal, but the way Dhoni attacked and scored off him Murali became a non-factor.

You are right, required RR was slightly more than 6. My bad. But to get India in position of relative safety, Dhoni had not contributed much. At the point I mentioned in previous post (when target was reduced to 100), Dhoni had contributed just 29 in 37 balls at the strike rate of 78 only. What attack you are talking about came later when India was ensconced much comfortably in driving seat. I am not downplaying Dhoni's contribution in that win, but just because he was there at the end of the match, people tend to give him more credit than he deserves. On your point of giving credit of Zaheer's bowling to Dhoni, would you agree that Dhoni is biggest culprit for India's unprecedented humiliation of 0-8 because he could not use India's resources? I am not even talking about his pathetic display with the bat and ordinary with gloves.

[Vijay.Sharma]

With Yuvraj and Raina to come and the form they were in, the above is an exaggeration. The hard work was done by Gambhir and to some extent Kohli. Instead of crediting Zaheer for being the best pace bowler in the tournament by some distance, you are crediting Dhoni with his success. I thought only Ganguly fans were capable of such dishonesty.

Wrong word and rather loose way of characterizing someone's opinion. He might truly feel that way whether or not it is a fact (in fact the whole thing is not based on black and white facts - it is a subjective opinion). You might not agree with his opinion but it sure doesn't seem dishonest.

[Vijay.Sharma]

I agree with the graded system rather than the individual rankings. If I have to forcibly rank, I would pick Yuvraj as the topper followed by Gambo, Sachin, and Zak at number 2

[Debutant]

1. Yuvi 2. Zak 3.Gambhir 4.Tendu 5.MSD 6.Raina Rest Last Chowla pathetic Shree dancing monkey was playing for the opposition( worse than Chowla)

[Ultimate_Game]

You are right' date= required RR was slightly more than 6. My bad. But to get India in position of relative safety, Dhoni had not contributed much. At the point I mentioned in previous post (when target was reduced to 100), Dhoni had contributed just 29 in 37 balls at the strike rate of 78 only. What attack you are talking about came later when India was ensconced much comfortably in driving seat. I am not downplaying Dhoni's contribution in that win, but just because he was there at the end of the match, people tend to give him more credit than he deserves. On your point of giving credit of Zaheer's bowling to Dhoni, would you agree that Dhoni is biggest culprit for India's unprecedented humiliation of 0-8 because he could not use India's resources? I am not even talking about his pathetic display with the bat and ordinary with gloves.

So are you saying building a platform by scoring 29 off 37, and when the target was around 100 accelerating and taking India to win doesn't count? Are you telling me the last 100 runs to get at a RR of more than 6 is a walk in the park? Do you even imagine what could have happened with a loss of couple of quick wkts? We have seen it from India for ages (before Dhoni arrived) how difficult has been for it to chase and in a WC final, the biggest game you can think of, are you saying it's nothing? Just because Dhoni had made India a chasing powerhouse in odis doesn't mean we take him for granted. Maybe you need to check our stats at chasing before and after Dhoni. I can tell you that had Dhoni hadn't come along India wouldn't be as great at chasing as it is now and the WC final performance is the case in point. He makes chases look so effortles, without taking any risks people think anyone can do it. And yes, one of the hallmarks of a great finisher is he sees the team through which Dhoni does and he did in the WC final. In hindsight it's all well and good saying how easy the win was and Dhoni didn't do much but as an Indian fan I know what was going on in my mind when India were 115/3 and at the time I am sure not many Indian fans were thinking "oh it's just a formality". The fact Dhoni ensured he remained unbeaten right through the end and made the win absolutely certain should be a big plus in his favor, not a negative. He followed the cardinal rule of cricket of "not leaving anything for other batsmen" and I for one am grateful he did that in the WC final. I wouldn't have wanted to see Malinga running through our lower order & tail with Dhoni out for a well made but eventually useless 50.

[Raghav_12]

So are you saying building a platform by scoring 29 off 37' date=' and when the target was around 100 accelerating and taking India to win doesn't count? Are you telling me the last 100 runs to get at a RR of more than 6 is a walk in the park? [b']Do you even imagine what could have happened with a loss of couple of quick wkts? We have seen it from India for ages (before Dhoni arrived) how difficult has been for it to chase and in a WC final, the biggest game you can think of, are you saying it's nothing? Just because Dhoni had made India a chasing powerhouse in odis doesn't mean we take him for granted. Maybe you need to check our stats at chasing before and after Dhoni. I can tell you that had Dhoni hadn't come along India wouldn't be as great at chasing as it is now and the WC final performance is the case in point. He makes chases look so effortles, without taking any risks people think anyone can do it. And yes, one of the hallmarks of a great finisher is he sees the team through which Dhoni does and he did in the WC final. In hindsight it's all well and good saying how easy the win was and Dhoni didn't do much but as an Indian fan I know what was going on in my mind when India were 115/3 and at the time I am sure not many Indian fans were thinking "oh it's just a formality". The fact Dhoni ensured he remained unbeaten right through the end and made the win absolutely certain should be a big plus in his favor, not a negative. He followed the cardinal rule of cricket of "not leaving anything for other batsmen" and I for one am grateful he did that in the WC final. I wouldn't have wanted to see Malinga running through our lower order & tail with Dhoni out for a well made but eventually useless 50.

Indian would have been in trouble with couple of quick wickets. No doubt about that. But, should that be an yardstick to claim Dhoni's as the best inning of that day? Can you even imagine if Kohli had not put thoise 30-35 runs with Gambhir? Does that make Kohli's innings better than Dhoni's. Rest of your post is irrelevant to the point we are discussing in this thread.

[Ultimate_Game]

Indian would have been in trouble with couple of quick wickets. No doubt about that. But, should that be an yardstick to claim Dhoni's as the best inning of that day? Can you even imagine if Kohli had not put thoise 30-35 runs with Gambhir? Does that make Kohli's innings better than Dhoni's. Rest of your post is irrelevant to the point we are discussing in this thread.

I am not claiming Dhoni's as the best innings. For me both Gambhir and Dhoni's were special innings. To me both of them should have been awared a joint MOM. I can't choose between the two and that's the reason why I rate Gambhir & Dhoni so highly (along with Yuvi). As for Kohli's knock yes Dhoni's knock was better than Kohli's. Kohli helped Gambhir consolidate but that's about it. There's no way Kohli's knock of 35 is in the same ballpark as Dhoni's or Gambhir's. Regards to Dhoni's knock my post was for the folks who said Dhoni didn't do anything special and all he did was cash in on Gambhir's knock by remaining not out. I was simply pointing out that to take a team from 115/3 to 275 while chasing in a WC final is indeed something special. For those of us who had to sit through 90s and matches before Dhoni burst on the scene we all know how easy (or not) it was to chase 275 from 115/3, and I am not even talking about the WC final. Dhoni did play a special knock and deserved every bit of credit he's getting coz he would have been roasted alive if he had failed after he promoted himself up the order.

[ganeshran]

Dhoni was the finisher while Gambhir built the innings when we were in trouble. It is inevitable that Dhoni's inning take the spotlight in the final especially the way he took the onus and came up the order. But the hard yards were done by Gambhir and I would rate his innings slightly better than Dhoni's because he was there at 18/2 when we looked to be in deep trouble and played a matured innings with both Kohli and Dhoni. After Dhoni, we still had two brilliant finishers in Yuvi and Raina but there was no one who else after 18/2 who could have played that anchor role like Gambo did

[Ultimate_Game]

Dhoni was the finisher while Gambhir built the innings when we were in trouble. It is inevitable that Dhoni's inning take the spotlight in the final especially the way he took the onus and came up the order. But the hard yards were done by Gambhir and I would rate his innings slightly better than Dhoni's because he was there at 18/2 when we looked to be in deep trouble and played a matured innings with both Kohli and Dhoni. After Dhoni, we still had two brilliant finishers in Yuvi and Raina but there was no one who else after 18/2 who could have played that anchor role like Gambo did

Watching India implode and fall short plenty of times year after year, Dhoni's knock was a breath of fresh air in a big game. Along with Gambhir, Dhoni steered India to the safety and neither's contribution was any less. If Gmbhir played the anchor role, Dhoni took on Murali and ensured the reqd RR never went out of hand. On top of that Dhoni ensured he was there at the end and there were no last minute jitters or implosions which to Indian fans through 90s would seem quite familiar. Both Gambhir and Dhoni played great innings and I wouldn't rate anyone higher than the other.

[Spiderguy252]

Please. 70% of the job was done by the time Dhoni got to the wicket. Gambhir on the other hand walked in when the score was 0/1, and then lost Tendulkar 25 runs later. Respect.