Tendulkar and Zaheer retirement discussion [Poll added]

[Ultimate_Game]

DUDE ! I understand where you are coming from but kicking sachin outta team ain't happening unless Sachin himself decides that he has played enough cricket . I too feel that this is not the same sachin of the 90's and early 2000's but he is still really really good. I too respect Dravid a lot for retiring when he thought he has had enough . Why can't we extend the same courtesy to Sachin ?

My point was that nothing said or discussed here is happening either. The "Team for 3rd Test", or "New captain for the Indian team" etc. are not happening either. Using your logic we should stop discussing that as well. If we can only discuss what can be impacted by us, we will need to shut down ICF as I said earlier.

[vvvslaxman]

We extended the same courtesy to Kapil dev also. But he is carrying permanent stigma of overstaying. You don't want that on a good player do you? You want him to plough and suffer for each run and eventually nudge himself out? Frankly i want great players to leave on a very high note. That complements their legacy immensely.

[cybervickey]

My point was that nothing said or discussed here is happening either. The "Team for 3rd Test"' date=' or "New captain for the Indian team" etc. are not happening either. Using your logic we should stop discussing that as well. If we can only discuss what can be impacted by us, we will need to shut down ICF as I said earlier.[/quote'] Ok I agree with your point . I understand that this is a discussion board . :)

[cybervickey]

We extended the same courtesy to Kapil dev also. But he is carrying permanent stigma of overstaying. You don't want that on a good player do you? You want him to plough and suffer for each run and eventually nudge himself out? Frankly i want great players to leave on a very high note. That complements their legacy immensely.

A great player should know when to quit themselves.

[cybervickey]

Can you present a counter-argument for this post: http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2180919&postcount=793 Please mull over it.

Too many if's and hypothetical's. Let talk about what's in front of us and not a a "what-if" scenario .

[vvvslaxman]

A great player should know when to quit themselves.

Sorry.. lot of great players retired disgracefully.

[vvvslaxman]

Too many if's and hypothetical's. Let talk about what's in front of us and not a a "what-if" scenario .

What is infront of us? A guy who is supposed to be the mainstay has sucked in the last few series. So he needs to be kicked out.. He is talking about future. You are living in past. I would rather talk about future than live in the past.

[cybervickey]

Sorry.. lot of great players retired disgracefully.

like who ?

[Ultimate_Game]

We extended the same courtesy to Kapil dev also. But he is carrying permanent stigma of overstaying. You don't want that on a good player do you? You want him to plough and suffer for each run and eventually nudge himself out? Frankly i want great players to leave on a very high note. That complements their legacy immensely.

Yup, Kapil will always be remembered for carrying on for too long just to break Hadlee's record even though we had a much better fast bowler in his prime sitting on the bench (Srinath). This obsession over individual players over the betterment of the team is what has led to us having such an underwhelming and mediocre record over our history.

[cybervickey]

What is infront of us? A guy who is supposed to be the mainstay has sucked in the last few series. So he needs to be kicked out.. He is talking about future. You are living in past. I would rather talk about future than live in the past.

I am talking about the PRESENT . Sachin has proved countless times that he is a huge asset. Just because he has hit bad form doesn't mean we toss him out. Not everything is as black and white as you are making it out to be.

[vvvslaxman]

like who ?

Kapil dev is the prime example who was prolonging his career to beat Hadlee's record.

[vvvslaxman]

I am talking about the PRESENT . Sachin has proved countless times that he is a huge asset. Just because he has hit bad form doesn't mean we toss him out. Not everything is as black and white as you are making it out to be.

PRESENT - Sachin is horribly poor.. getting bowled in different ways. Whatever i highlighted there is not PRESENT. That is PAST.

[cybervickey]

Yup' date=' Kapil will always be remembered for carrying on for too long just to break Hadlee's record even though we had a much better fast bowler in his prime sitting on the bench (Srinath). This obsession over individual players over the betterment of the team is what has led to us having such an underwhelming and mediocre record over our history.[/quote'] Can't compare Kapil with Sachin .

[Ultimate_Game]

I am talking about the PRESENT . Sachin has proved countless times that he is a huge asset. Just because he has hit bad form doesn't mean we toss him out. Not everything is as black and white as you are making it out to be.

All the decisions are made looking at the future. In some cases the upside to be in the present (e.g., if World Cup is round the corner) outweighs the future. In this case the present is as dark as the future. Tendulkar is hardly scoring any runs at the moment and we embark on away series next year. It's imperative to nail down the no. 4 spot before we tour SA else we will again go through the 0-8 debacle. Even if Tendulkar plays an occasional great innings it's clear his best days are behind him and he's unlikely to be the mainstay of our batting when we tour next season. We need to firm up the batting lineup and go for players like Rahane who are the future and give him best possible chance to succeed. Rahane averages 60 odd in FC cricket and is not likely to do any worse than Tendulkar at the moment plus it will help him establish himself in the team for sterner Tests ahead rather than trying to make debut in SA in an unsettled lineup.

[cybervickey]

PRESENT - Sachin is horribly poor.. getting bowled in different ways. Whatever i highlighted there is not PRESENT. That is PAST.

Sooooooooo let me get this straight . You'll toss out a proven match winner and genius who has devoted his whole life playing for the country just because he hit bad form for a couple of games.Alright , who is next ? Dhoni ? Yuvi ? Heyyyyyyyyyy .. kohli hasn't been preforming in tests, must be past his prime . LEts kick him out too.

[Ultimate_Game]

Can't compare Kapil with Sachin .

Why not? Kapil is the greatest Indian cricketer and he played on for 2 additional years just so that he could break Hadlee's record. It's very similar to what Tendulkar has done while going for his 100th 100.

[cybervickey]

All the decisions are made looking at the future. In some cases the upside to be in the present (e.g.' date=' if World Cup is round the corner) outweighs the future. In this case the present is as dark as the future. Tendulkar is hardly scoring any runs at the moment and we embark on away series next year. It's imperative to nail down the no. 4 spot before we tour SA else we will again go through the 0-8 debacle. Even if Tendulkar plays an occasional great innings it's clear his best days are behind him and he's unlikely to be the mainstay of our batting when we tour next season. We need to firm up the batting lineup and go for players like Rahane who are the future and give him best possible chance to succeed. Rahane averages 60 odd in FC cricket and is not likely to do any worse than Tendulkar at the moment plus it will help him establish himself in the team for sterner Tests ahead rather than trying to make debut in SA in an unsettled lineup.[/quote'] Know this , no mater what playing 11 we take to SA , we will end up losing. Its not just about batting you know , Test matches are won by bowlers.

[Ultimate_Game]

Sooooooooo let me get this straight . You'll toss out a proven match winner and genius who has devoted his whole life playing for the country just because he hit bad form for a couple of games.Alright ' date=' who is next ? Dhoni ? Yuvi ? Heyyyyyyyyyy .. kohli hasn't been preforming in tests, must be past his prime . LEts kick him out too.[/quote'] Nope, let's have a team consisting of Gavaskar, Kapil, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Tendulkar and Kumble. Surely with such stellar players the team would be unbeatable.

[Ultimate_Game]

Know this ' date=' no mater what playing 11 we take to SA , we will end up losing. Its not just about batting you know , Test matches are won by bowlers.[/quote'] Wow!!! Just wow!!! So you want Tendulkar to play coz 'we will lose in SA anyways" And you call yourself an Indian fan :omg: Answer me this, let's assume for argument's sake that we have a better chance of winning in SA if we blood Rahane now, would you still want to continue with Tendulkar or drop him for Rahane?

[cybervickey]

Why not? Kapil is the greatest Indian cricketer and he played on for 2 additional years just so that he could break Hadlee's record. It's very similar to what Tendulkar has done while going for his 100th 100.

ok the 100th-100th was a joke . I agree ! but its not like Tendulkar himself was actually chasing after the record. If was more of a media created hype. I remember sachin saying that it wasn't that important .Maybe it was a mental block . SAchin never goes after the records . He plays for the team .