Will the ICL really improve Indian first class cricket ?

[beetle]

Their plans are too far fetched Chandan.. They are starting from scratch....and competing against a gaint that has most of the controls. Getting players ready in 3 years is not a joke. I don't think ICL has any long term interest in the grass root development of cricket. It doesn't pay well.Even if this league of their's takes off...I doubt they will be working on these big promises. It is a league that is being started by a big businessman and purely for monetary gains.They will still be poaching guys from domestic and international teams. If there was money in improving grassroot cricket or improving domestic cricket ...BCCI would have milked that option way back.... The fact of the matter is .....it is all about money.

[Chandan]

That was more of a one-off, to be honest. I remember crowds turning up for AUS vs NZ matches in the '04 TVS Cup. I don't see how basic facilities will make a big difference in spectatorship. Ultimately, you go to a stadium to watch good cricket. Sure, comfy seats and catering will improve the stadiums but will crowds turn up if the cricket is of a poor quality ? Besides, aren't the ICL only responsible for the cricket played, not for the stadiums ?

That was not just one off. Tell me which match involving other countries had the full stadium in the Champion's Trophy last year? As far as I remember, none. Few had turned up at Mohali for Pak vs SA match, but just to abuse Pak players, nothing more! So quality of stadium and presence of basic facilities will let a person enjoy his/her day with the family. ICL are just responsible for cricket played, and that is why I'm saying that ICL is for TV audience primarily. They might invite few people/kids to build up the atmosphere. But thats all as far spectators in the audience are concerned!!

[beetle]

The cold fact is that only Team India gets crowds consistantly to the stadiums . Even full strength Ranji matches with team India players don't get crowds......

[Chandan]

Anyway, this leads in to the discussion of how quality of play can be improved so feel free to delve into how you think the format can be improved. I am guessing you want to see an English/Aussie style two-tier system with two seperate divisions ?

To improve the quality of FC cricket, I propose following format: 1. We'd need to replace Ranji Trophy with Duleep Trophy as the premier tournament. 2.We'll add one more team as the NCA team for this tournament, which will include 15 emerging players from the country for that year. 3. Every zone will have its own selectors ans each zone will choose 15 best players from their zones. 4. Matches will be played on a round-robin way and each team will get to play 10 FRC matches. 5. The two finalists will play an additional match. 6. Matches will be played at six different venues, each different from other: North: Mohali--can be bouncy, green, seaming track East: Kolkatta--good batting track, assisting spin in the final stages Central: Nagpur--the pitch on which we played Australia in 2004--quick and bouncy South: Chennai--turning track West: Mumbai--batting +turn NCA: Bangalore--Again low and slow aiding turn later 7. OD teams will be chosen on similar path and we can have Deodhar Trophy, Duleep Trophy and T20 trophy together at this higher level. Now many will say that the State associations won't agree to this. I'd say that Ranji Trophy will keep on taking place along with these. It is only that those matches will be one tier below this Premier tournament, though both will have FC status. What'll be the motivation for players to perform at zonal level? Players will be told that outstanding Ranji performers will be chosen for Duleep trophy and outstanding Duleep trophy performers will stake a claim for the national team. ------------------------------------------------- Now feel free to raise chinks in this format. Would love to discuss on that!!

[Chandan]

Their plans are too far fetched Chandan.. They are starting from scratch....and competing against a gaint that has most of the controls. Getting players ready in 3 years is not a joke. I don't think ICL has any long term interest in the grass root development of cricket. It doesn't pay well.Even if this league of their's takes off...I doubt they will be working on these big promises. It is a league that is being started by a big businessman and purely for monetary gains.They will still be poaching guys from domestic and international teams.

Cricketers, U-15, U-17 and U-19 can get ready in three years. And what is the harm in attracting and employing aggrieved players who can serve ICL's purpose? And obviously it is about money. Everywhere it is about money. And Zee VP has stated in no uncertain terms that they want to exploit the huge and untapped cricket market in India---and that is domestic cricket. Obviously they are no fools. And they must be having plans ready about how to exploit this market. And isn't it good for Indian domestic cricket, cricketers and fans too that someone is willing to show an angle which none of us had seen so far? And the best part will be that it'll make the BCCI pull its socks up!!

[beetle]

>>>And the best part will be that it'll make the BCCI pull its socks up!! That it has already done..... And no harm in more employers.We need more people to tell the youth that there is job security in sports. Man...this is one issue I can't make up my mind on......:confused_smile: I think it is best to wait ,watch and have some fun.

[chanakya]

Depending on where the ICL is going to hold its matches i think will make all the difference. Invite Schools with free tickets. Make the players easily accessible to students. Basically do what Mac Donald's did in India. Sold it self to kids who in turn forced their parents to go to Mac Donald's as well. Now you have the loyalty of the younger Generation as well as the forced participation of the current Generation. Also twenty- twenty can actually become a family outing like it has in England i think.

[Chandan]

Will anyone comment on the FC structure that I've suggested in the previous page?

[sohum]

Back to one of the original threads of discussion, one important reason I think twice about going to a ground for a cricket match at Wankhede (be it when India is playing or someone else) is because of the poor facilities for me--the guy who bought the ticket for some exorbitant amount from supposedly the world's richest cricket board.

[varun]

To improve the quality of FC cricket, I propose following format: 1. We'd need to replace Ranji Trophy with Duleep Trophy as the premier tournament.

What do you mean by "premier" tournament ? As in more matches among the zones than among the states ? Or do you want to get rid of Ranji altogether ? I'm confused

2.We'll add one more team as the NCA team for this tournament, which will include 15 emerging players from the country for that year.

Good idea for the Duleep trophy

3. Every zone will have its own selectors ans each zone will choose 15 best players from their zones. 4. Matches will be played on a round-robin way and each team will get to play 10 FRC matches. 5. The two finalists will play an additional match. 6. Matches will be played at six different venues, each different from other:

Zonal matches are good.. though this all seems quite a bit like the aussie setup AFAIK. I'm not sure how this setup will work in India with the number of ppl playing cricket at state level. Also, I see scope for a lotta inter and intra zonal politics here if these matches are given such great importance.

[Chandan]

What do you mean by "premier" tournament ? As in more matches among the zones than among the states ? Or do you want to get rid of Ranji altogether ? I'm confused

Ranji Trophy is the premier tournament at the moment, and selectors see the stats of Ranji matches to consider players for the national team. I want that importance to be given to Duleep Ttophy. I don't want to get rid of the Ranji matches. In fact I would like that to continue so that it acts as a feeder for Duleep trophy, though even Ranji matches will have FC status (we just can't take that out because the state associations won't agree). So, 1.We'll have 350 FC players for Ranji matches. 2. Out of those 350, 75 outstanding players will qualify for Duleep matches+ 15 emerging players. 3.I'd like both the tournaments to continue side-by side but mutually exclusive. And it'll work like: Good players at Ranji level qualify for Duleep Good players of Duleep stake a claim for National side. So you can say that Duleep trophy will be one tier above Ranji, as far as selection for the national team is concerned!! Any questions now?

[Chandan]

I'm not sure how this setup will work in India with the number of ppl playing cricket at state level. Also, I see scope for a lotta inter and intra zonal politics here if these matches are given such great importance.

Politics will be exposed as everyone will know who are the 15 best players from each zone though the Ranji matches. And in this case, I'd like BCCI to have 3 appointed payed selectors at national level who can overlook the selection of these 75 players, 15 from each zone, selected by their zonal selection committee. As far as I know two zones have 7 teams each while three have 5 teams each. It would not be much difficult to find out 15 best players from each zone as India does not have that many good players from one zone at the moment.

[abhinav]

I agree with Chandan. Duleep Trophy is a more sterner test of a player's capabilities. the level of competition is higher and is more or less standard across the teams. Perhaps Dulpeep Trophy could become longer in format. Ranji is already acting as a feeder for the Duleep trophy teams; players doing well for the state teams get selected to play for the zones.

[The Outsider]

Chandan, your idea of making Duleep trophy the premier championship is indeed a good one and the format you have suggested is a very competitive one. If and when ICL starts 3/4 day cricket, they'll follow a similar format I reckon.

[Chandan]

Chandan' date=' your idea of making Duleep trophy the premier championship is indeed a good one and the format you have suggested is a very competitive one. If and when ICL starts 3/4 day cricket, they'll follow a similar format I reckon.[/quote'] I hope so. And I wonder why can't BCCI opt for this format? It is not as if players are chucked out or are not getting opportunity in this format? They'll have to prove themselves at Ranji first, which will be the lower level and those proven at this level will have to prove themselves at a bit higher level which will be Duleep. This way, we'll get more finished articles from our domestic system who can feel at ease at the international level. I'll also propose to give contract to players at zonal level. So there will be enough incentive to perform at this level. Players who do badly, or are injured at this level will have to go back to Ranji level to prove their fitness and form. This way, we'll have 90 in form and fit players ready for national selection.

[King]

Before we can say ICL will or will not help we may have to look at few facts : 1. Involvement of professional and proven performers like McGrath, Warnie, Lara, and Cairns may help a lot of domestic Indian cricketers to learn tricks of trade. 2. It also depends on whether ICL has good enough set up such as cricket academies, proper training centers and adequate technology to improve the quality of the selected cricketer. I think ICL lacks this one and am sure a lot of domestic cricket board already have this in place. 3. How many well know professional coaches ICL can afford and will the coaches take their jobs seriously considering the people following ICL will not be as demanding as they are when it's a test match or a ODI? 4. Is ICL going to be involved in bettering grass root level cricket at all? If they aren't then they are simply picking up a product that is being produced by the BCCI affiliates. I don't reckon going by indications so far ICL is interested in this aspect of the sport. 5. There are specialist coaching centers such as MRF pace foundation where the ICL players can be sent for fine tuning. Whether ICL will consider this option is anyone's guess. 6. How keen will the already retired players such as Lara, Yousuf, McGrath will be towards being coached by their respective coaches? I think they won't really be too keen. That will possibly not be a great example for the young ones. 7. Professional cricket just doesn't stop at players. There is more to it than what you can see. There are other aspects of the game like pitch management, appointing of proper umpires, someone to oversee players' on field conduct, putting together cricketing laws to cover matters such as chucking, drug abuse et al. I don't reckon ICL is for now ready with it yet. Going by what has transpired so far ICL is pretty much lacking innovation. Firstly they have used a format that is on the up recently i.e Twenty20 and is promoted by ICC. Secondly they are recruiting the domestic and international cricketers i.e borrowing players from an already established set up. So far I’ve not seen any innovation with ICL. Packer was quite different. We saw coloured clothing, white ball, day night cricket and that was something more exciting than what ICC or ACB could offer in the 70s. Unless there is enough foresight and innovation ICL will always be a bridesmaid. If they are only aiming at little chunk in the big market for cricket in India they will always remain a little fish in a big ocean. I can think of a lot of things that ICL may not have covered. I think ICL for now is not going to be very organized and will only be testing the water. If the project takes off well and the income starts to flow we may well see some development. Otherwise I doubt this exercise will help the sport at all. In fact it may end up just being a little off beat circus that provided handful of players some big money that's about it. I don’t reckon ICL can sustain without the help from the local cricket board and ICC. For the good of the sport I hope rest of the cricket boards allow their players to participate in the ICL and also hope ICC will not oppose the ICL.

[abhinav]

Ravi, applause for articulating the concerns wrt ICL perfectly.

[Chandan]

I think we're being too impatient to get these answers Ravi. ICL has not even announced its full set of players for the inaugral event. Nor have they officially announced any of their plans. And it is not fair to compare it to Kerry Packer as then even the top players were paid peanuts and hence all of them made a mass exit, forming a bee-line to join the Packer series. Secondly, Packer had started with test matches first, remember! It was when no one turned up to watch them, they were forced to the innovation of LOC. We'll have to wait and see what ICL does. At least we can wait till it takes off before drawing any conclusion!

[King]

Of course some of the points I made are based on speculation Chandan. The question this topic asked was " Will the ICL really improve Indian first class cricket ?" I think answering the question will involve a mix of facts and speculations :D

Ravi, applause for articulating the concerns wrt ICL perfectly.

Thanks Abhinav.

[Chandan]

Predator still didn't reply. I'm waiting Predator!