Dissecting Ganguly - The Batsman

[Guest dada_rocks]

This is a comprehensive look at Ganguly's performance since his comeback West Indies jan 2007 Match 1 - India 338/3 batting first Ganguly - 98(110) - SR - 89 Match 2 - India 189 all out batting first Ganguly - 13( 25) , SR - 52 Match 3 - India 341/5 batting first Ganguly - 68(82) , SR - 83 Sri Lanka in India, Feb 2007 Match 1 - India 252 , batting second, fell short of target by 4 runs , after being comfortably placed at 154/3 in 27 overs Ganguly - 62(79) , SR - 79 Match 2 - India chase down target of 230 in 46 overs Ganguly - 46(76) , SR - 66 Match 3 - India chase down target of 260 Ganguly - 58(74) , SR - 78 World cup - 2007 Match -1 , Bangladesh - India scored 191 , BD chases it down with 9 balls to spare Ganguly - 55( 129) , SR - 51 Match - 2 , Bermuda , India scores 413 , Win by 257 runs Ganguly - 89(114) , SR - 78 Match -3 , Sri Lanka , India chases 255 , all out for 185 Ganguly - 7(23), SR - 30 India in Ireland Match - 1 , Ireland scores 170 , India chases it down with 15 overs to spare Ganguly - 73( 99) , SR - 74 India Vs South Africa Match 1 - India scores 241 , SA Chases it down with 3 balls to spare Ganguly - 13(22) , SR - 60 Match 2 - SA scores 226 , India chases it down with 5 balls to spare Ganguly - 42(75) , SR - 56 Match 3 - 31 over match , SA bats first , scores 151. India chase it down Ganguly - 18(24), SR - 75 ODIs Vs England Match 1 , England scores 288 , India A.O for 184 Ganguly - 2(3), SR - 66 Match 2 , India 329 , Win by 10 runs Ganguly - 39(54), SR - 72 Match 2 , England scores 280 , India fall short by 42 runs Ganguly - 72( 104) , SR - 70 Ganguly stats India batting first 98(110), SR - 89, India wins 13( 25) , SR - 52 , India wins 68(82) , SR - 83, India wins 55(129) , SR - 51 ,India loses 89(114) , SR - 78, India wins 13(22) , SR - 60 , India loses 39(54), SR - 72, india wins India batting second 62(79) , SR - 79, Target was 254 , India fell short by 4 runs , after being comfortably placed at 154/3 in 27 overs 46(76) , SR - 66 , Target 230 , India wins 58(74) , SR - 78, Target 260 , India wins 7(23), SR - 30, India loses 73( 99) , SR - 74, India wins 42(75) , SR - 56, India wins 18(24), SR - 75, India wins 2(3), SR - 66, India loses 72( 104) , SR - 70, India loses Ganguly combined strike rate in matches batting first Total runs - 375 Balls faced - 516 SR - 72.66 Ganguly combined strike rate in matches batting second Total runs - 390 Balls faced - 557 SR - 70.00 We have to take into account the match situations to get the real picture of Ganguly's SR Taking a reference 80 as a SR that is acceptable to most of us , lets look at all of Ganguly's innings with SR below that with a condition that he faced a minimum of 25 balls Number of innings Ganguly averaged a SR of below 80 - 11 Result of those matches - 9 wins , 2 losses So obviously , a majority of Ganguly's innings have been well paced ones , played according to the team's requirements. Even when he has been slow , his innings has ensured India's victory more often than not Please dont get carried away by stats in isolation. Looks at the larger picture.

Awesome work What say u GIB now

[jf1gp_1]

here is what stats dont show. 5-8 runs a better fielder would have saved and problem caused by low SR at top of the order when chasing a big total. I think it was MM who suggested bringing SG lower down the order. If we are going with 6 batsman we need someone who avg 50+. For 4 sehwag/dhoni type SR you need one ganguly type batsman who will hold his end. Like everyone it was frustrating to see the kind of innings Ganguly played yesterday but in a way it was justified.

[apocalypse]

abe DR read post number 38

[coverpoint]

As an opener in the ODI's the idea is to use the power plays. So you can be OK if you have one ultra aggressive guy (say ala Uthappa) and one consolidator who will feed the aggressive guy the strike. If SG is the consolidator then he should have the ability to rotate and NOT play out too many dot balls. In the last game i had posted that one point he had faced 74 balls and 50 off them were dot balls. Thats 2/3 of all faced balls. How is that consolidation? And remember this is the time we are chasing 280+ The other pertinent stat is that since his return he is the SLOWEST of the lot. RD, SRT, Yuvi etc ALL are faster (and have a decent averages too). None of them have a SR below 83! Now to look at his scores in the context of the game. So would u expect that a batsman who has faced 100 balls (1/3 of all possible balls in the game) and you are chasing 280 + (RRR of almost 6) for the guy opening and using the PP to atleast have a a RR at par with the score you are chasing. IF NOT then could he have done the job of playing fewer of those balls and rotated better giving the aggressive batsmen more of strike. Problem with SG is that he neither is the consolidator (rotating strike) neither is he the aggressor (look at his strike rate)

[jf1gp_1]

In the last game i had posted that one point he had faced 74 balls and 50 off them were dot balls. Thats 2/3 of all faced balls. How is that consolidation? And remember this is the time we are chasing 280+

see again giving stats is hiding the fact that India went with 6 batsman, having lost 2 quick wickets the aim was to not lose any more. As a batsman its your job to get closer to the target to give the strikers a shot at the target and thats what Ganguly was doing. I am not going to defend his SR or number of dot balls, having scored 11k runs he should know how to rotate strike but you also have to look at the match situation. If you want to throw a stat give his SR pre and post fall of sachin + kartick.

[Ram]

Excellent Work Maris. But I beg to differ with your assessment. I checked every ODI game he played from 2006/2007 series in Cricinfo. We need to take his S/R relative to other top 6 batsmen in the team. If you check and see ' date=' Ganguly has [b']never topped the S/R even once ! In fact , what I noticed was his S/R was usually in the bottom of the top 6 list of batsmen's S/R. He has had the second best S/R only couple of times and has always been 4 or 5 or 6 among the batsmen in terms of S/R. Surely this should explode the myth that he accelerates better than other top and middle order batsmen in the team or is a better stroke player than others in the team.

KR, its not the individual strike rate that matters , but the overall position of the team that counts. And to add on to my original post , In the two matches that we lost where Ganguly averaged less than 80 SR , I will attribute only one of them to Ganguly's slow playing. One was the world cup match against BD , where we were in desperate straits and someone had to anchor and that is what Ganguly did. Its a pity that not a single other batsman made a worthwhile contribtion in that match The one match , which i will definitively point an accusing finger at Saurav was the last match against England, where he scored a painstaking 70 off 104 balls , as an opener , chasing 280. In EVERY other single match where he has averaged less than 80 SR and made a decent score , India has won.

[kabira]

SRT's dismissal was due to ganguly. I believe he did not rotate strike even once. 7 overs srt had only face 12 balls...Credit to SRt, he saw ganguly in good flow intially and gave him strike.. But SRT got frustrated, once Ganguly started to slow down..

[Ram]

And As i have mentioned before , there is no way Sachin and Ganguly should open , if they are to keep scoring at this pace. Power plays are INCREDIBLY important in deciding the result of the match, irrespective of batting first or second. We are in an age of ultra quick starts ,not steady ones. Either Uthappa or Sehwag should open for India , along with Sachin or Ganguly. Ganguly seems to be a little incapable of doing anything now , apart from providing a solid support platform to a partnership. So , i am even open to the idea of him opening and Sachin coming at No.3. Sachin is such a versatile player that he can score in any position he wants , but it looks like Ganguly needs the comfort of being an opener to keep making the runs he is making now.

[kabira]

when ganguly bats, he obviously denies himself and his partner few runs due to his slow running. Imagine SRT nudging the ball in gap and 2 is there for taking if he had someone like Yuvi...With Ganguly we miss out on lot of runs..

[coverpoint]

see again giving stats is hiding the fact that India went with 6 batsman, having lost 2 quick wickets the aim was to not lose any more. As a batsman its your job to get closer to the target to give the strikers a shot at the target and thats what Ganguly was doing. I am not going to defend his SR or number of dot balls, having scored 11k runs he should know how to rotate strike but you also have to look at the match situation. If you want to throw a stat give his SR pre and post fall of sachin + kartick.

Ok fair... how is this for a stat. after facing 14 balls he had 1 run. Then he had that one big over with 4 boundries ... and went back into his shell. So for a batsman who by the admission of his own fans is playing the role of a consolidator plays 14 balls without rotating? You cant have it both ways. Cant say he is providing t he support for other aggressive players and then not look at his number of dot balls. Fact is he is a poor ODI player today. He was good ways back then but today he is not there. And the argument (I know it will come) That we have no other alternatives wont fly. With how SG plays we are going to lose more games than we will win (remember we are playing Poms who are ranked #7 in the world). So if we have to lose I might as well lose with some youngsters ... try out KKD or RU or Rohit Sharma or someone else at the top ... atleast these guys have something that can be proved... and upside .... What will Ganguly learn? Why lose with him?

[coverpoint]

And As i have mentioned before , there is no way Sachin and Ganguly should open , if they are to keep scoring at this pace. Power plays are INCREDIBLY important in deciding the result of the match, irrespective of batting first or second. We are in an age of ultra quick starts ,not steady ones. Either Uthappa or Sehwag should open for India , along with Sachin or Ganguly. Ganguly seems to be a little incapable of doing anything now , apart from providing a solid support platform to a partnership. So , i am even open to the idea of him opening and Sachin coming at No.3. Sachin is such a versatile player that he can score in any position he wants , but it looks like Ganguly needs the comfort of being an opener to keep making the runs he is making now.

Thats the other problem. SRT cant (or doesnt want to ) play in any position other than opener. So what this means is that we have to chose between the two of them (drop the other or move them to #7 where they have to push things). SRT even the last few games has an average of 43 with a SR of 87. SG has a better average BUT a much much much much worse SR. Pick your poisen.

[Sachin_Rulez]

I can't believe some of you guys are actually supporting gangu here. He simply doesn't belong to this form of cricket anymore. Not only he has piss poor SR since he made comeback in ODIs but also his inability to rotate strike which is hurting our team a lot and clearly frustrating the batsman at other end. He has been doing this consistently, it's not like he's scoring at faster rate in some matches and sucked in other matches. Look at the overall picture - he has nothing to offer in ODIs. His feet doesn't move quick enough in the field, always leaking runs left, right and center. His bowling isn't good enough for India to rely on him to bowl at least 5 decent overs in everygame. Needless to say, all India wins so far were despite him (hate to use the word 'Despite' but can't help :( ) It's very sad situation for India that Dravid can't drop this dadaji in ODIs as doing so would cause another major controversy :banghead::banghead::banghead: PS: :hysterical:@ someone who compared today's ganguly to collingwood based on their SR (for all collingwood has to offer while fielding, apart from his batting who generally runs pretty quick and rotates strike well....)

[CC1981]

Let me bottomline it for you guys here. Ganguly since his return = Kallis of India with the bat. Is that greatest of the great ? No. But is it quite good/worldclass ? yes. As i said, strike rate is not all- there is no bloody team with 90+ strike rate for all batsmen at any given time. Not even Australia. And lest you forget, EVERY decent/good team has had an anchor player - West Indies had larry gomes, australia had steve waugh (in odis). Ganguly is not the ideal ODI player or one of the best but he is still damn good simply because at the end of the day, he is putting RUNS on board. I wonder how many people are taking into consideration the matches played and what the required rates were- it hardly is a bad thing if Ganguly has 70 strike rate and the team chases/sets a winning score of 210. To drop Ganguly in the ODIs is a madness. But i do agree that he and Tendy pairing isnt going to work that well anymore. We need Sehwag back in the top order, Tendy at #3, Yuvraj at 4, Dravid at 5 & Dhoni at six with preferrably pathan (if he learns to bowl again) at seven. For the future, i think Piyush Chawla has some potential to be an effective #7 in ODIs/Tests. I know it is early to tell but an 18 year old averaging 25+ with the bat and over half a dozen fifties at FC level does show batting potential.

[CC1981]

And more to the point, if Gangoo goes, who takes his spot ? So far, he is averaging 47.92 and 71-ish strike rate. I would like to know which player exactly would offer more value than Ganguly in the team. I am not doubting that the plethoras of Utthapa-Karthik-Gambhir- would offer a better strike rate than Ganguly by perhaps 5-10 pts but will they even average 35 with the bat ? I don't think so. So Ganguly stays. I realize that this team isnt doing great at the moment but that is a lot because of Dravid batting totally out of position ( the guy should stick "i am #5 in ODIs" on his forehead as a reminder) and lack of strong/consistent bowling attack. Simply speaking, our bowling attack does not have it in itself to be a credible force. It can be workmanish on its day and pathetic on its off day with maybe 1-15 excellent performance thrown in. Ganguly is not the strongest asset in the team at the moment but he is most definitely not the weak link. The weak link is batting KKD at #7 and going in with 4 genuine bowlers.

[simba28]

The last match was not lost because of ganguly's slow batting but due to bad decision by the captain, sloppy fielding and lack lustre bowling.. I thinkb winning the toss and bowling was a real bad move .. specially when RD knew we were one batsmen short for a possible big chase.. and its not like our bowling had been going gr8 guns... I think darvid is not thinking right thesedays.. or may be thinking a bit too much

[The Outsider]

Not only is Ganguly's SR poor, his fielding and running between the wickets are pathetic as well. He gives away at least 10 runs in the field on average making him a 60 SR batsman rather than 70 as portrayed by his numbers. Couple that with the catches he drops, denies other batsmen the opportunity of taking singles and improving their SR, and put pressure on them we are dealing with a 50 SR liability in the ODI side here.

[coverpoint]

The point no one responded to is that Ganguly is poor in either role. As an achor he needs to be able to feed strike to others .... his # of dot balls and lack of quickness hurt here. He FAILS in t his job As a PP user he fails ... simply due to his poor SR So what is he?

[Guest dada_rocks]

Choose ur respective holes guys u will need it to hide pretty soon..

[yoda]

Choose ur respective holes guys u will need it to hide pretty soon..

so, how is the 51 SR hole he dug against banglastan in WC? :hysterical:

[The Outsider]

Does anyone deny that: 1. Ganguly gives away 4-5 singles when there would have been none, let's the opposition convert ones into twos around 3-4 times, gives away the occasional boundary in the field for an average of at least 10 runs in the field. 2. Ganguly's reluctance to take quick singles and convert ones to twos costs his partners at least 10 runs in a match. If not, then we are dealing with a player whose SR is not even 50 instead of the 70 which shows up as a facade. That's when the subjectivity of dropped catches and putting pressure on his batting partners hasn't even been accounted for.