Would you pick me in your team?

[zubinpepsi]

But you have to understand that it is Ganguly's solid presence at the other end that helps the other batsman to score so freely. Wait up , i am trying to fish out more stats to throw more relevant info in this debate. Lets see what comes out of it.

actually he puts other batsmen into pressure cuz of hoggin the strike n not scoring and eating upthe balls.. which forces others to take risks.. sometimes it pays off sometimes its not.. whenever it pays off we win and wheneve it dint we loose...if we have ganguly this is wat will happen... look at the record chase wins we had.. im sure if ganguly was there, yuvi n dhoni wud have been pushed into the state where its not possible to win...

[yoda]

If Ganguly cannot open ' date=' then there is no use for him in the team.[/quote'] Now you are trapped. :giggle:

[zubinpepsi]

Good night ' date=' Sugar Dreams ! :D[/quote'] Thanks,,,but wondering how sugar dreams wud be......:confused_smile: Good nite to u too..:regular_smile:

[dial_100]

Dial , its not about the number , its about Ganguly performance since his comeback. We all know what a pathetic ODI player Dravid in his first 50 one dayers . His overall career still do reflect some of that. But off late , he has been India's second best One day batsman , after Yuvraj. His overall one day stats in no way reflect what good a one day player he is now. That is my point , we need numbers from relevant timelines. Not some arbitary periods.

Agreed..to the first few points... but I am talking about last 25 games, of which 20 are after he returned to I'national arena. As per you that is where he scored most of his runs. Are you looking at how many runs he scored or the way he scored 'em?? My point is to show everyone, if 60% of deliveries I face are wasted, means no strike rotation. And if I end up scoring a single on the last ball of the over, then even better (:confused_smile:). My partner is stranded on the other end getting :banghead: because he is seeing me not able to score runs fast enough for the need of the team. This frustration creep up because we are wasting away power play where should be able to score at 5 where we struggle to get even 3.5. If I manage to score some runs later to improve my SR, then its better but remember, the balls I have wasted annoys someone else may result into losing the wkt(s)... Now i have created a situation for myself where I say, oh we are losing wkts so I should stick to one end and things never improve, if they do the we are lucky but what if they dont??? On the contrary, if I play 15% less deliveries to score those runs, meaning w/o wasting deliveries if I give strike to the other guy, he not only manages to score more runs than I could, it keeps the TEAM's SR very healty.. I hope I am making sense here..

[Dravid]

dada is a better test player now then an odi player.. we still need him for tests odi- yea, retire

[zubinpepsi]

Agreed..to the first few points... but I am talking about last 25 games, of which 20 are after he returned to I'national arena. As per you that is where he scored most of his runs. Are you looking at how many runs he scored or the way he scored 'em?? My point is to show everyone, if 60% of deliveries I face are wasted, means no strike rotation. And if I end up scoring a single on the last ball of the over, then even better (:confused_smile:). My partner is stranded on the other end getting :banghead: because he is seeing me not able to score runs fast enough for the need of the team. This frustration creep up because we are wasting away power play where should be able to score at 5 where we struggle to get even 3.5. If I manage to score some runs later to improve my SR, then its better but remember, the balls I have wasted annoys someone else may result into losing the wkt(s)... Now i have created a situation for myself where I say, oh we are losing wkts so I should stick to one end and things never improve, if they do the we are lucky but what if they dont??? On the contrary, if I play 15% less deliveries to score those runs, meaning w/o wasting deliveries if I give strike to the other guy, he not only manages to score more runs than I could, it keeps the TEAM's SR very healty.. I hope I am making sense here..

TOTALLY

[zubinpepsi]

Now you are trapped. :giggle:

:haha: sriram, u shud keep ur loyalty to our GOD..dont waste ur time in defending ganguly.. u ll b trapped.. safe bet is sachin... try tht.. im with u...:two_thumbs_up:

[Ram]

Now you are trapped. :giggle:

Not necessarily. That doesnt mean he shouldnt open. I mean it as - If Murali cant bowl spin , there is no use for him in the team , which is true.

[Ram]

:haha: sriram, u shud keep ur loyalty to our GOD..dont waste ur time in defending ganguly.. u ll b trapped.. safe bet is sachin... try tht.. im with u...:two_thumbs_up:

I know Zubin. I am not a blind supporter of players. I support when i see merit.

[Ram]

Dial , what you are essentially saying is - Ganguly maybe scoring decent runs , but its not doing the team's RR or average score right ? That shall be either proved true or otherwise very soon. I am working on a few stats towards that.

[dial_100]

waiting to be...--->:pcguru:

[Ram]

waiting to be...--->:pcguru:

Almost done :D

[apocalypse]

still fighting going on?

[dial_100]

No fight.. we are having a very decent debate... absolutely no abuse and no arbitrary claims here... in the entire thread..

[apocalypse]

kya fayda... selectors ne agar stats par dhyaan diya hota to aadhi team alag hoti aaj

[Guest dada_rocks]

yaar do mahine pahle sare bol rahe the dada kabhi test batsman tha hi nahin one day mein rakho ab ulta.. make up your mind guys:giggle:

[dial_100]

Dada.. ab hum badal gayee..... Now we want wins... results... Gangs or SRT..

[Ram]

K , here goes the stats i have promised. Please go through them in detail and feel free to come to your own conclusions The two main accusations made against Ganguly have been

• He bats too slow , affecting the team's run rate

• Because he plays so many dot balls , the batsman around him get frustrated and get out

To see if any of these are actually true , i decided to study two parameters, namely the average runs scored by India for every wicket they lost and their av average run rate , for periods prior to Ganguly's comeback and after it. The First time line - May 2006 to Dec 2006 , a period of 15 ODIs , when Ganguly was out of the team. Here are the stats for them. May-June ( All matches Against W.Indies) India Scores 254/5 44.5 overs , 197 a.o, 49.4 overs , 245/9 , 49.5 overs , 217/7, 50 overs, 236 , 48 overs Total runs - 1149 total wickets - 41 Total overs - 241 overs DLF cup September 2006 Against W.I - 309/5 in 50 overs , Against W.I 162 a.o in 40 overs , Against Australia 195 a.o in 43.5 overs. total runs - 666 total wickets - 25 Total overs - 133.5 Champions trophy October 2006 Against England 126/6 in 29.3 overs , Against W.I 223/9 in 50 overs , Against Australia 249/8 in 50 overs total runs - 598 , wickets - 23 overs - 129.3 S.Africa - November 2006 248/8 in 50 overs , 168 a.o in 41.3 overs , 163 a.o in 38 overs , 200/9 in50 overs Total runs - 779 wickets - 37 overs - 179.3 overs Total matches played in this period - 15 For this period , Total runs - 3192 Total wickets - 126 Total overs faced - 683.1 verage runs/wicket - 25.33 Ave RR - 4.67 That is , In this period , India scored 25.33 runs for every wicket they lost and scored at an average run rate of 4.67 runs per over Now , for the second time - After Ganguly's comeback , from Jan of 2007 to present ( including the 3 ODIs against England). This period contains a total of 17 matches. West Indies jan 2007 Match 1 - India 338/3 batting first 50 overs Match 2 - India 189 all out batting first , 48.2 Match 3 - 268 all out , 48 overs Match 4 - India 341/5 batting first Total runs - 1136 Total wickets - 28 Total overs - 244.2 Sri Lanka in India, Feb 2007 Match 1 - India 252/9 in 50 overs , Match 2 - India 230/5 in 46 overs Match 3 - India 261/3 in 41 overs Total runs - 743 Total wickets - 17 Total overs - 137 World cup - March April 2007 Match -1 against Bangladesh - India scored 191 a.o 49.3 Match - 2 against Bermuda - India 413/3 in 50 overs Match -3 against Sri Lanka - India all out for 185 all out in 43.3 overs Total runs - 789 Total wickets - 23 Total overs - 142.6 India in Ireland - June Match - 1 against Ireland - India 170/1 in 35 overs India Vs South Africa - June/July Match 1 - India scores 242/8 in 50 overs Match 2 - India 227/4 in 49.1 overs Match 3 - India 152/4 in 31 overs Total runs - 791 Total wickets - 17 Total overs - 164.1 ODIs Vs England - Aug 2007 Match 1- India A.O for 184 in 50 overs Match 2 - India 329/7 in 50 overs Match 3 - India 239 all out , in 48 overs Total runs - 752 Total wickets - 27 Totalv overs - 148 overs For the entire period after Ganguly's comeback, total runs - 4211 total wickets - 112 total overs - 835.5 Ave runs/wicket - 37.5 Ave RR - 5.04 That is , India have scored 37.5 runs for every wicket they have lost and scored at an average rate of 5.04 runs per over. Compare this with the 25.33 runs/wicket and 4.67 runs/over that they managed in the period prior to his comeback. Ganguly has top scored for his team with 767 runs since he came into the team. It is his solid presence that enables the batsman around to build partnerships and attack with freedom , two essential aspects one day batting. No wonder that they lost 60% of the matches they played in the period of May 2006 to Dec 2006 and won 64% of the matches they played from Jan 2007 to Aug 2007 , when Ganguly came back into the team .

[yoda]

Sriram, just for the time you have spent in your analysis, I am willing to give Ganguly another series after this one. :D

[Ram]

Sriram' date=' just for the time you have spent in your analysis, I am willing to give Ganguly another series after this one. :D[/quote'] :D Its the thrill i get out proving perceptions/popular claims wrong i suppose, that makes me spend all this time. And fittingly as well , coz i am thinking of taking a break from the WWW. Am getting too hooked to it. :confused_smile: