Delivery mechanism failure

[The Outsider]

It would be a good idea for people to understand the game, and not just go by the results. Yeah, we reached the number 1 spot under Dhoni's captaincy, but it would not be a lot of effort to think about how much Dhoni's role was to get India there: 1. In the period India was the number 1 test team, India had series against South Africa, Australia, and England away in the ranking calculations. Two out of these three series were never played with Dhoni as captain. Just because a culmination happen under a particular helm does not mean that helm was responsible to the extent credit is given. If Dhoni could replicate a 1-0 win in England and a 1-2 loss in Australia, India would still be number 1. 2. Well, not still because under Dhoni's captaincy India will lose a test series at home tomorrow after 8 years. 3. What happened to the natural born T20 instinct? 3 straight second round exits? Guess who was the delivery man for them? Dhoni! Yeah, Dhoni delivered India the number 1 test ranking, World T20, and ODI WC but he has also delivered 0-8 abroad, three straight exits from the World T20, and a series loss at home. Has the delivery mechanism failed? No, because it was never about the delivery mechanism and the opportunistic jingoism of Dhoni fan boys. It was and will be always about a team - don't credit the captain with more than he is responsible for, and if you do be ready to slate him when the team sucks. My personal view - India had a good team when they won quite a bit and now they don't. The captain played a role in it's success but a marginal one. Unless there is a captain like Border who can radically transform the culture of a team, giving credit to a captain beyond a limit makes no sense. The delivery mechanism has not failed - what has failed is people's identification of correlation with causality in the interest of not analyzing the game enough.

[Jersey #10]

oh no, you just took the feather out of Dhoni's hat oh wait, i get it. cricket is such a one man sport. duh.. :wall: Why this post now?

[Lurker]

The confusion with Dhoni's success is similar to the success of the Urban yuppies in Modern India. Because India succeeded in cricket, and in general, the success was laid down at the doors of those who were there to enjoy the fruition. Looking back I can't help but laugh at how the Indian scribes (read cheerleaders like Bhogle, Shashtri etc) kept reminding their viewers how the modern Indian guns did not take a step back, gave as good it gets, and were born winners. Well now that we got royally screwed 1-11 shouldnt the brickbats reside with Dhoni and the Indian Shining brigade too. lol This whole fiasco is just so funny actually. Lots of eggs on our faces right about now.

[The Outsider]

Lurker, what's so difficult in differentiating between correlation and causality? Not much really - it's simple. The only reason why people tend to identify correlation with causality is vested interests - they can be wide ranging, but people think of themselves being part of a greater success in some sublime way in a manner they are not, obviously. Glad you brought up the whole India Shining bravado - it was so superficial and still is, but at least the common man got a chance to vote on it, not that the alternative was any better. But in Indian cricket, it was India Shining coupled with a coincidence of success which had some roots while IPL was not around and the likes of Kumble and Dravid were, but now look at Indian cricket. It's as pitiful as the India Shining slogan.

[CG]

Azhar also lead to being world no1 in icc test rankings in 1995 .So what we bring him back.

[maniac]

Both Dhoni and Kirsten are over-rated for their contribution to India's success in the 3-4 years preceeding 2011. Doni's captaincy has often worked for and against his value as a player... I know it's kinda complex but His poor captaincy has often shielded his poor on-field performances as the focus was on his captaincy and at the same time his value as a player was also undermined by his captaincy failures I still think Dhoni the player still has a lot to contribute to Indian cricket in terms of bringing balance to the side. Dhoni the captain needs to be kicked out,Dhoni the player needs to be persisted with a little longer before we can find a suitable replacement...Karthik,Pappu and Saha are not the answer,we need to look for a decent alternative untill then Dhoni the player stays

[CG]

Both Dhoni and Kirsten are over-rated for their contribution to India's success in the 3-4 years preceeding 2011. Doni's captaincy has often worked for and against his value as a player... I know it's kinda complex but His poor captaincy has often shielded his poor on-field performances as the focus was on his captaincy and at the same time his value as a player was also undermined by his captaincy failures I still think Dhoni the player still has a lot to contribute to Indian cricket in terms of bringing balance to the side. Dhoni the captain needs to be kicked out,Dhoni the player needs to be persisted with a little longer before we can find a suitable replacement...Karthik,Pappu and Saha are not the answer,we need to look for a decent alternative untill then Dhoni the player stays

Sorry but unless you give chances you will never know.Kaul ,saha,karthik all deserve a chance . Partucularly saha as he is no2 .

[maniac]

Sorry but unless you give chances you will never know.Kaul ,saha,karthik all deserve a chance . Partucularly saha as he is no2 .

Dhoni has been average but I rate him above Saha and Karthik as an all-rounder...Karthik is a better bat and Saha is the better wk but overall I would still go for Dhoni the player. Infact even Pappu has a way better batting technique than Dhoni and I think he is one of the better players of Fast bowling in India,as ridiculous as it sounds. as far as Kaul goes....haven't seen him so will hold my judgement.