Lurker Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I think I already tried to address that. Women are brainwashed in our society right from the day they are born - they are discriminated against by their own mothers in lieu of the male child' date=' they are bullied by their mother in laws so when it's their turn to have the power they try to do the same. This not some chicken and egg scenario where the origin of the problem is unclear - women will stop oppressing other women when the society stops oppressing them. Their reaction is a response to our disgusting society of which women make a very big chunk.[/quote'] And this is where I differ with you. Women should be the change they expect everybody else to be. It is 2012, 65 years post Independence, one can not keep blaming everybody else. I am not disputing a lot of points you have raised, merely saying that it is high time women stood up for themselves. And I think a lot of them do, for who I have utmost respect. For those who dont, well not so much :winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 And this is where I differ with you. Women should be the change they expect everybody else to be. It is 2012, 65 years post Independence, one can not keep blaming everybody else. I am not disputing a lot of points you have raised, merely saying that it is high time women stood up for themselves. And I think a lot of them do, for who I have utmost respect. For those who dont, well not so much :winky: We'll go back to the same post I made a few hours back - women kaise uthengi, unki backbone kaise aaeygi. It won't happen when they are being systematically aborted, it won't happen when they are being denied education, it won't happen when they are being groomed as cattle rather than as kids. The change has to come from the society first for the women to respond to the change, merely saying "Dekho bhaiyya kanoon bana diya hai" doesn't change anything on the ground level unless that law is being implemented. Women are primarily victims of the crime rather than perpetrators of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 It is 2012, 65 years post Independence, one can not keep blaming everybody else. Aur ye NRI waale phunde to pelo mat - 65 years of independence. Jaa kar dekho kisi UP aur Bihar ke gaaon mein about the independence women have in their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Aur ye NRI waale phunde to pelo mat - 65 years of independence. Jaa kar dekho kisi UP aur Bihar ke gaaon mein about the independence women have in their lives. Amaan yaar hum aur aap UP aur Bihar se hi hain bhai..:haha::haha: Here is a quick question for you Shwetabh. You have been in the online world for a fair amount of time. How have you seen the atitude of average Indian (online) women change over the years when it comes to matter like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Amaan yaar hum aur aap UP aur Bihar se hi hain bhai..:haha::haha: Here is a quick question for you Shwetabh. You have been in the online world for a fair amount of time. How have you seen the atitude of average Indian (online) women change over the years when it comes to matter like this? Arre yaar, the average Indian online does not matter when we are discussing subjects like this, where in all likelihood the woman would die before browsing google or ICF. But since you ask, my first and only foray into online forums has been ICF since 2004 - pehle version 1, ab version 2. And on these on line forums I've interacted closely with a handful of girls - Beetle, Aaku, Aditi etc. There were two surprises which popped up - Aditi did not marry Varun, and Beetle(Radhika) turned out to be younger than me, otherwise it was pretty much on expected lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 ^^ lol. I meant how has the discourse changed over the years. I have not seen much of a change. Sometime one gets the feeling their world is limited to Ranbir Kapur, good food, travelling, light banters and of course women's right. There has been little change although the country itself changed tremendously. In a very weird analogy this is akin to my gripe with the software giants. TCS, Infosys etc. They are now amongst the top 10 IT software companies in the world, making billions, and still are primarily body shoppers not even getting into the area where an Apple or a Samsung would venture into. Sometimes thats the feeling I get from Indian women. They are riding the success but not inventing it. Again, for those that who do I tip my hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Kucch bhi bakwaas. In our judiciary system it takes a truckload of evidence to prove someone guilty and now you are going to start a crusade against whose cases could not be proven? That someone was exonerated does not imply that he did not commit the crime - it implies that there was not enough evidence to convict him' date=' to bring in a case that he was wrongfully and willfully accused will take more than the truckload of evidence. But you are fine with that?[/quote'] how many trucks (of evidence) and how many years (of litigation) you need to determine that following was a case of false accusation. 2 months old baby had to get an anticipatory bail in one case of 498a. http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/foru...bail-71271.asp All you use in this thread is rhetoric and statements representative of utopic world, in total disconnect with ground realities. Myself and Tiger presented you with so many stats, statements and news reports but you simply swept aside saying that all these are evil designs of female haters male society. In one sweeping statement you discredited complete Indian judiciary by saying that this is run by bunch of males who are out there to suppress females of country. I hope you would give little more credence to what National Commision of Woman (NCW) Chairperson Mamta Sharma has to say on 498a. http://www.deccanherald.com/content/295648/amend-498-prevent-misuse-says.html Here is another statement from a female judge http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-03-03/delhi/28649957_1_dowry-harassment-section-498a-legal-terrorism Acknowledgement of problem is first step towards solution of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 My twisted logic: Gender Imbalance will result in dowry going the other way (yes the bride receiving it from the groom). Supply and demand' date=' folks. In another couple of decades female foeticide will stop on its own. No laws needed.[/quote'] That will also result in women being treated like property. There are already cases of brothers keeping one woman as a common wife in states like haryana.There are enough weak and poor woman in India to last these men for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 The ground reality is that women are being discriminated and suppressed as a whole. Yes , but are one sided laws are not answer ,I think no.On one hand you are saying that women are so oppressed that they can't even show backbone on the other you are supporting one sided laws.What makes you think that men behind these women will not misuse them .Fathers, brothers, even BFs are going to effectively misuse women centric laws for their own benefit.Misuse karega aadmi badnaam hogi Aurat It might be a guiding principle, but surely you will agree that it cannot be implemented perfectly and some middle ground has to be found. I found no reason that why this guiding principle should be forgotten when there is case regarding woman And that's why I asked you - what do you suggest? How are you going to change the law which still safeguards women in a society where they are discriminated against and reduce it's misuse from the current status? Keep in mind the nature of dowry related crimes with regards to documentary evidence and physical proof. No law should be designed with pre determined victim.This is where communists were wrong .They saw workers as oppressed and management as oppressors , as a result socialists policies ,laws were designed which ended up as massive failure . For domestic disputes I will prefer Family courts, no police should be involved in minor disputes .Just read DV act and you will find that how there are provisions that husbands can be jailed even for minor disputes Bail should be given easily and only when there is extreme threat of death or major voilence , only then non bailable law should come into effect Also if possible I will prefer this matter to handed to states rather than center.India is now too diverse .On one hand we had live in relationship girls who may change Bfs every year and on the other hand we have rural women which firmly believe in pati parmeshwar concept.So let different states decide the matter according to their condtion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Bhaisahab, 50 million ko to paida hi nahin hone diya humare desh ne. Woh kahan se laayeingi backbone? When their brothers go to school they are made to work as maids, woh kahan se laayeingi backbone? When they are treated like cattle right from childhood you think woh backbone banayeingi? This post clearly shows how much out of touch from reality you are.There are more chhottou's , mundu's in cities which are working in Dhaba's , puncture shops , auto shops than 8-9 year old girls.Child labour market favour boys of this age than girls. You can find them anywhere in India. Also girls do work as maid when they atleast 12 year old.And let me ask you question? who is the employer of these girls? Is it not the modern educated women too employ them but make no provision that they get education and get better life.these are same women which are forward in demanding improving safety and condition of women but at the same time they just have chalta hai attitude toward their maids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Kucch bhi bakwaas. In our judiciary system it takes a truckload of evidence to prove someone guilty and now you are going to start a crusade against whose cases could not be proven? That someone was exonerated does not imply that he did not commit the crime - it implies that there was not enough evidence to convict him' date=' to bring in a case that he was wrongfully and willfully accused will take more than the truckload of evidence. But you are fine with that?[/quote'] Why can't there should be a provision which give power to judge to decide whether the case was imposed with genuine intention or not? If a judge clearly see that intention of a person that lodged the case was to harm or extort money , then why can't he/she should announce a fine or prison sentence her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Dear Tiger80...I am really impressed by your recent posts.Very mature for a young boy...:hatsoff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Dear Tiger80...I am really impressed by your recent posts.Very mature for a young boy...:hatsoff: I am not a young boy:winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 15-16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I am not a young boy:winky: 15-16? I guess BeetleJi is confusing you with Tiger-Don?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 :blink::doh:Too many sher ke bacche on the forum...:roti: My apology to the big Tiger....:--D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 :blink::doh:Too many sher ke bacche on the forum...:roti: My apology to the big Tiger....:--D :haha::haha: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 No law should be designed with pre determined victim.This is where communists were wrong .They saw workers as oppressed and management as oppressors , as a result socialists policies ,laws were designed which ended up as massive failure . Couldn't have put in better way. For domestic disputes I will prefer Family courts, no police should be involved in minor disputes .Just read DV act and you will find that how there are provisions that husbands can be jailed even for minor disputes Bail should be given easily and only when there is extreme threat of death or major voilence , only then non bailable law should come into effect That's not going to happen. These measures would mean limited role for police in these proceedings and police would not like to wash their hands off such lucrative business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 :blink::doh:Too many sher ke bacche on the forum...:roti: My apology to the big Tiger....:--D :hysterical::hysterical: I think I need to :protest: against use of Tiger user name on ICF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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