Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: This cant be serious .. so the Taliban walk into a goodyear repairshop to repair their tires? And they duly sign the receipts with "Taliban", I suppose. I guess they use Amex cards also? Arre baba, the names of these 'fighters' are sussed out by active intelligence assets. What they are doing, where they are going when they leave their mountain hideouts is tracked by passive intelligence assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 And those 'assets' are expensive. they are 'active' assets, that require millions of dollars in initial investment ( training, logistics setup, etc) and regular cash influx to keep them viable. They are a valuable resource but needs to be augumented with 'passive intel gathering' via the integrated business model, where its the CIA guy with accounting degree that looks at the company finances and concludes 'the haqqani network are using the petrol pump at dera ghazi khan the most, clearly they are around there somewhere'. Err, USA-Pakistan is nowhere as integrated as USA-Canada is. India-Pakistan probably wont ever get that economically integrated but if it did, trust me, Pakistan would have to be clinically insane to try and hurt Indian economy, because it hurts them back ten folds through economic feedback. This is one of the major reasons why Canadians bend over backwards to accomodate US demands- not because we are scared of their military might, but because we are scared of their economic sway in Canada.Thats exactly the point, they ARE INSANE RABID DOGS!! They proved it in 1971 when they butchered 3 million of their own people, and they have proved it again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 And those 'assets' are expensive. they are 'active' assets, that require millions of dollars in initial investment ( training, logistics setup, etc) and regular cash influx to keep them viable. They are a valuable resource but needs to be augumented with 'passive intel gathering' via the integrated business model, where its the CIA guy with accounting degree that looks at the company finances and concludes 'the haqqani network are using the petrol pump at dera ghazi khan the most, clearly they are around there somewhere'. Err, USA-Pakistan is nowhere as integrated as USA-Canada is. India-Pakistan probably wont ever get that economically integrated but if it did, trust me, Pakistan would have to be clinically insane to try and hurt Indian economy, because it hurts them back ten folds through economic feedback. This is one of the major reasons why Canadians bend over backwards to accomodate US demands- not because we are scared of their military might, but because we are scared of their economic sway in Canada. You are trying throw a lot of technical mumbo jumbo. Are you in the intel gathering business? Do you work for those fancy american think tanks trying to teach us heathens a thing or two about the tradecraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Arre baba' date=' the names of these 'fighters' are sussed out by active intelligence assets. What they are doing, where they are going when they leave their mountain hideouts is tracked by passive intelligence assets.[/quote']This is ridiculous. Just answer the question - how did USA win the Cold War. Not by setting up goodyear stores in the USSR, but by making it bleed in several different ways and then overseeing its dismemberment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Thats exactly the point' date=' they ARE INSANE RABID DOGS!! They proved it in 1971 when they butchered 3 million of their own people, and they have proved it again and again.[/quote'] devaluing your enemy and concluding that they are 'insane, worthless, dogs, etc' is counterproductive and actually hurts our interests more. History has shown us that sides that routinely dehuanize and routinely dismiss their opposition as 'insane or inferior' are hurt in the long run. The Nazis thought that one Aryan was equal to three slavs and went all gung ho in Russia. They didn't see that Russia had 4x more manpower because to them Russia had only 1.5x more manpower, as Nazis were superior men. Where did it get them ? In 1965, the entire Pakistani military principle was based on the Punjabi-Pashtun 'martial race' teaching the 'hindoos' a lesson, as 'one Paki is equal to 5 hindus in battlefield'. Good thing they believed that drivel or else Asal Uttar might've never happened in our favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 This is ridiculous. Just answer the question - how did USA win the Cold War. Not by setting up goodyear stores in the USSR' date=' but by making it bleed in several different ways and then overseeing its dismemberment.[/quote'] USA won the cold war as much as USSR conceded it. USA did diddly squat to make USSR split up or stutter, USA had zero economic impact in the Warsaw pact nations. USSR went bankrupt and Gorbachev initiated political AND economic reforms at the same time, which lead to political fragmentation of USSR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You are trying throw a lot of technical mumbo jumbo. Are you in the intel gathering business? Do you work for those fancy american think tanks trying to teach us heathens a thing or two about the tradecraft? No. I just read a lot of books on the issue. i am no expert on this topic, but i will say this with certainty- the US policy is clearly geared towards 'economic integration with the enemy, so we can have more passive intel services in their nation via commercial links' . Obviously this doesn't apply to Iran or NKorea but it does apply to nations where war is not your primary objective but strategic and tactical engagements are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jairamesh Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 India can't influence puny Maldives or Sri Lanka with economic integration what will it do in Pakistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 India can't influence puny Maldives or Sri Lanka with economic integration what will it do in Pakistan. +1. India is no USA. The solutions that worked for USA will not work for us. We need our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 India can't influence puny Maldives or Sri Lanka with economic integration what will it do in Pakistan. because our fundamental problem is: a) indecision. Waiting till its too late b) not total commitment. We wont get results by cheaping out on such issues. You want to see the power of economic investments, just check out how much friendlier China-Sri Lanka relations have gotten ever since China committed 5 billion dollars or so to develop some port facility in SL. You can;t expect economic influence to work by being cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Watching too many TV shows - intel, assets, moles, this stuff is riveting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 No. I just read a lot of books on the issue. i am no expert on this topic, but i will say this with certainty- the US policy is clearly geared towards 'economic integration with the enemy, so we can have more passive intel services in their nation via commercial links' . Obviously this doesn't apply to Iran or NKorea but it does apply to nations where war is not your primary objective but strategic and tactical engagements are. Leave the books. Use common sense. Too much reading leaves the mind crippled for critical thinking. India doesn't need Intel against Pakistan. Because the enemy isn't some cave dweller but the army. This army's think tank got seriously mind ****ed when Zia took power. And that mind ****ing process has continued to this date. Good Economics, Bad Economics ... Its irrelevant because they are running a jihad. And stop with the US policy theories. Brezinski, Kissinger, Charlie Wilson types - These people are the reason why middle east and particularly Pakistan is on the brink. So stop peddling their non sense here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Besides, we have to accept the fact that with a few exceptions (such as Bhutan), our immediate neighbourhood will be luke-warm to us at best. We won't make super-good buddies with Sri Lanka, Bangladesh or Nepal, just like China won't ever become super-good friends with Vietnam, SKorea, Japan, Phillipines etc. This is because in both cases, we (or China) are the overwhelmingly dominant 'big brothers' in the neighbourhood where the little brothers will always live in the shadow and fear a take-over/assimilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 No. I just read a lot of books on the issue. i am no expert on this topic, but i will say this with certainty- the US policy is clearly geared towards 'economic integration with the enemy, so we can have more passive intel services in their nation via commercial links' . Obviously this doesn't apply to Iran or NKorea but it does apply to nations where war is not your primary objective but strategic and tactical engagements are.Well unfortunately, this is simply infeasible in the India-pakistan context. India cannot first of all afford to throw money around, and even if India does all it will do is to strengthen pakistan economically which will be used mostly to beef up pakistani military and nukes. Nor does this strategy always work. China did not become a puppet of the USA because the latter invested in it heavily. On the contrary China has grown into a behemoth with a much more potent military than before and has gained more leverage over the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Leave the books. Use common sense. Too much reading leaves the mind crippled for critical thinking. India doesn't need Intel against Pakistan. Because the enemy isn't some cave dweller but the army. This army's think tank got seriously mind ****ed when Zia took power. And that mind ****ing process has continued to this date. Good Economics, Bad Economics ... Its irrelevant because they are running a jihad. And stop with the US policy theories. Brezinski, Kissinger, Charlie Wilson types - These people are the reason why middle east and particularly Pakistan is on the brink. So stop peddling their non sense here. the policies of the US political theorists have worked excellently. Their goals were not enrichment and strategic superiority of the middle east or Pakistan, their goals were enrichment and strategic superiority of the US. In that capacity, they have succeeded fabulously. Whether they are running a jihad or the 5th buddhist council, the point is, when your corporations employ people in their country, you can 'tap in' to the common financial records and uncover information 10x faster and 10x cheaper than doing it the 'CIA hacking and cracking' way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Well unfortunately, this is simply infeasible in the India-pakistan context. India cannot first of all afford to throw money around, and even if India does all it will do is to strengthen pakistan economically which will be used mostly to beef up pakistani military and nukes. Nor does this strategy always work. China did not become a puppet of the USA because the latter invested in it heavily. On the contrary China has grown into a behemoth with a much more potent military than before and has gained more leverage over the US. True, fair points. No strategy is foolproof or 100% successful. But it does seem to work more than it does not for players such as the US, USSR and China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Leave the books. Use common sense. Too much reading leaves the mind crippled for critical thinking. India doesn't need Intel against Pakistan. Because the enemy isn't some cave dweller but the army. This army's think tank got seriously mind ****ed when Zia took power. And that mind ****ing process has continued to this date. Good Economics, Bad Economics ... Its irrelevant because they are running a jihad. And stop with the US policy theories. Brezinski, Kissinger, Charlie Wilson types - These people are the reason why middle east and particularly Pakistan is on the brink. So stop peddling their non sense here. lolwut. India needs all the intel it gets from Pakistan. If we had better Intel, both 26/11 and Kargill could have been averted regardless of how ***ked up Pakistan's military policy is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 the policies of the US political theorists have worked excellently. Their goals were not enrichment and strategic superiority of the middle east or Pakistan, their goals were enrichment and strategic superiority of the US. In that capacity, they have succeeded fabulously. Whether they are running a jihad or the 5th buddhist council, the point is, when your corporations employ people in their country, you can 'tap in' to the common financial records and uncover information 10x faster and 10x cheaper than doing it the 'CIA hacking and cracking' way. No they haven't. US is at its weakest point since the WW2. All the strong and assertive countries (France, USSR, China. Brazil) don't give a rats ass what US has to say on their actions. And you aren't reading what I'm saying. India doesn't need to "crack" anything. They know who the enemy is. The question for discussion should be how much of India's interests have been sold to the highest bidder by desh drohi inc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jairamesh Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Leave the books. Use common sense. Too much reading leaves the mind crippled for critical thinking. India doesn't need Intel against Pakistan. Because the enemy isn't some cave dweller but the army. This army's think tank got seriously mind ****ed when Zia took power. And that mind ****ing process has continued to this date. Good Economics, Bad Economics ... Its irrelevant because they are running a jihad. And stop with the US policy theories. Brezinski, Kissinger, Charlie Wilson types - These people are the reason why middle east and particularly Pakistan is on the brink. So stop peddling their non sense here. My sentiments exactly. It's not like intel is needed for scum like Hafiz Muhammad Saeed.:giggle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 the policies of the US political theorists have worked excellently. Their goals were not enrichment and strategic superiority of the middle east or Pakistan, their goals were enrichment and strategic superiority of the US. In that capacity, they have succeeded fabulously. Whether they are running a jihad or the 5th buddhist council, the point is, when your corporations employ people in their country, you can 'tap in' to the common financial records and uncover information 10x faster and 10x cheaper than doing it the 'CIA hacking and cracking' way. +1. Whether or not it will work in Pakistan's case is debatable, but ordinary people on the ground makes Intelligence gathering much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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