Do most Pakistanis hate Indians ?

[sandtest]

Hahahaha...I simply can not stop laughing after reading that. Put it simply for Shiv Sena, Maharastra(or a Marathi) comes first to India. And the tragedy is that ST is so right, afterall didn't Bal Thackeray only recently supported Pratibha Patil as she was a Marathi Manus?? Now lets just change Shiv Sena to Muslim League and Marathi to Muslim. As in Muslim League puts Muslims ahead of India. Errrr I can see ST running overboard with words gaddar, traitor etc etc. It would have been even more funny had it not been tragic. Ahhh Mother India. xxxx

Lurker, your selective criticism apart, let me recollect one past news. back those days, in Saamana (Marathi Newspaper from Mumbai), Bal Thackeray, openly appealed Shivsainiks to get foothold in Kashmir and fight with Paki supporting terrorists who were slaughtering Kashmiri Pandits till extinction. If regionalism is truelly his intention, how come Kashmiri is being asked to be protected? I have already made clear Bal Thackeray's regionalism is to appease only Maharshtrians for Votre bank -- since Maharshtrians vote on these lines. It's way different than Muslim league-- which was for division of India -- aah mother India.

[Gambit]

Why don't you mods reign on this poster D_R ' date=' He is the one who posts these threads most of the time inspite of the fact that Ravi has disdain for such threads .[/quote'] Not just Ravi, all of us decided not to have any threads on religion which has been the case. The OP in most cases is on a nation or an issue but digresses into a debate on x,y,z religions. Regarding reigning him in, given our commitment to free speech, we can't 'reign' someone in unless someone indulges in vicious personal and religious attacks. But some people do take advantage of this communities lax environment.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Why don't you mods reign on this poster D_R ' date=' He is the one who posts these threads most of the time inspite of the fact that Ravi has disdain for such threads .[/quote'] exactly for the reason why ur dead issue posts are not deleted..

[Lurker]

U are an adult and clicking or not clilcking is in ur hand.... This campaign of urs to scuttle every debate which makes u uncomfortable by virtue of facts not being on your side is age-old tacttics of gagging people..

Hahahaha are you seriously an Indian DR?? Because you increasingly seem to have become the very people you loath - authoratarian Islamists. You have issues with me asking BB to start a poll on the subject? Pray do tell where do you even come into the picture? Read up this entire thread and just check how many people have mentioned one way or other than they dislike this continuous one-track subject. The question for ICF is, Does ICF want to be ICF? or Does it want to become FaithFreedom.org? xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

Go ahead KR find the relevance of ur posts so far in this debate .. Did u notice since u entered there doesn't seem to be any correlation between thread title and posts... U do it everytime that's your specialty..

[Lurker]

Lurker, your selective criticism apart, let me recollect one past news. back those days, in Saamana (Marathi Newspaper from Mumbai), Bal Thackeray, openly appealed Shivsainiks to getv foothold in Kashmir and fight with Paki supporting terrorists who were slaughtering Kashmiri Pandits till extinction. If regionalism is truelly his intention, how come Kashmiri is being asked to be protected? I have already made clear Bal Tackeray's regionalism is to appease only Maharshtrians for Votre bank -- since Maharshtrians vote on these lines. It's way different than Muslim league-- which was for division of India -- aah mother India.

ST, I shall debate you on this but before I do that I humbly ask you to keep Islam/Pakistan out of this as that frankly has started to tick me off greatly at ICF. Okay coming to the issues you raised. Please tell me the answer to following questions: 1) How many Shiv Sainiks eventually ended at Kashmir willing to fight militants?? It is one thing to make promises(politicians do that all the time and in the end Thackeray is a politician) but to deliver on it, naaah they dont do that. 2) Division of India. Has Shiv Sena not been on record to kick Biharis out of Mumbai?? If so by all means that is a partition of India for me. Biharis, if Shiv Sena has its way, wont be able to enter in Maharastra. How is that not partition my friend? And just so we are clear similar sentiment was done against Tamils in 70s too so its not merely an anti-Bihari sentiment. xxxx

[kumble_rocks]

Not just Ravi' date=' all of us decided not to have any threads on religion which has been the case. The OP in most cases is on a nation or an issue but digresses into a debate on x,y,z religions.[/quote'] That's just a pretense and you and other Mods very well know that. Posters like DR, DSR , Bheembhai , Sandtest etc have strong feelings against Islam and they may or may not be right. At least Bheembhai to his credit , does not initiate any anti islamic threads . Trust me, if DR stops posting in GD , most of the religious discussion will cease to be exist. The real question is , are you guys willing to reign in on him ?

[Guest dada_rocks]

Hahahaha are you seriously an Indian DR?? Because you increasingly seem to have become the very people you loath - authoratarian Islamists. You have issues with me asking BB to start a poll on the subject? Pray do tell where do you even come into the picture? Read up this entire thread and just check how many people have mentioned one way or other than they dislike this continuous one-track subject. The question for ICF is, Does ICF want to be ICF? or Does it want to become FaithFreedom.org? xxx

Find me which part rhas anythign to do with faithfreedom.org.. Good attempt of sensalization.. forget about who I am.. A thread on some different topic being peppered wiht this message with the footnote how those who are posting in threads are nut sounds like pretty much obviouis to me.. You could go ahead start a thread on whatever poll u want, I could care less.....

[Lurker]

We have had huge discussions on this topic amongs the mods ..... its very difficult to stop people from discussing such topics ... and often there is a very fine line between religion/politics/society etc...

I am not gonna buy that theory at all. The only people who delve into religion from society/politics are you and DR, sometimes ST. Most of the posters who participate in GD, say peeps like myself, KR, Dhondy,Shwetabh, CA, Aditi, Varun, Holy, Apo, Talksport, THX, Radheeka and many others whose name I forget rarely do what you are accusing them of doing. xxxx

[Gambit]

That's just a pretense and you and other Mods very well know that. Posters like DR' date=' DSR , Bheembhai , Sandtest etc have strong feelings against Islam and they may or may not be right. At least Bheembhai to his credit , does not initiate any anti islamic threads . Trust me, if DR stops posting in GD , most of the religious discussion will cease to be exist. The real question is , are you guys willing to reign in on him ?[/quote'] KR, even you have started threads on Pakista/Islam in the past and encouraged others to join and debate the OP, have you not? Like I said, our site is pretty lax when it comes to debates. Only when it descends into egregious abuse that the mods step in. But I agree that GD is becoming RD now.

[Guest dada_rocks]

That's just a pretense and you and other Mods very well know that. Posters like DR' date= DSR , Bheembhai , Sandtest etc have strong feelings against Islam and they may or may not be right. At least Bheembhai to his credit , does not initiate any anti islamic threads . Trust me, if DR stops posting in GD . most of the religious discussion will cease to be exist. The real question is , are you guys willing to reign in on him ?

yes we do and nothing is going to change that.. Now go ahead find some threads initiated by me since the rule was in place..for a change show u are not indulged into baseless BSing.. I too belive if people like u get banned ( but i still like to have u around) then detour towards dead-issues won't start hence flare up will stop......... just look at this thread it was goingon seamlessly since u entered it has gone down the tube .. u always do that reason is u have nothign to contribute on topic at hand but wud like ur pre-conceived notion to be registered everywhere relevance notwithstanding..

[Guest dada_rocks]

I am not gonna buy that theory at all. The only people who delve into religion from society/politics are you and DR, sometimes ST. Most of the posters who participate in GD, say peeps like myself, KR, Dhondy,Shwetabh, CA, Aditi, Varun, Holy, Apo, Talksport, THX, Radheeka and many others whose name I forget rarely do what you are accusing them of doing. xxxx

everybody does that just because certain people attack hindusom doesn't make it non-religious matter...........

[kumble_rocks]

KR' date= even you have started threads on Pakista/Islam in the past and encouraged others to join and debate the OP, have you not? Like I said, our site is pretty lax when it comes to debates. Only when it descends into egregious abuse that the mods step in. But I agree that GD is becoming RD now.

I used to do that before, until a directive was passed by Mods and Ravi , not to do so. That's why you will rarely see me start these threads nowadays ! But posters like DR start these threads almost every other day inspite of being told not to do so. And I won't let his unwarranted innuendos go unchallenged. I will post my rebuttals. But , if you guys are serious about cleaning up the act here , the usual suspects needs to be reigned in on . Just my 2 cents.

[Guest dada_rocks]

I used to do that before' date=' until a directive was passed by Mods and Ravi , not to do so. That's why you will rarely see me start these threads nowadays ! [b']But posters like DR start these threads almost every other day inspite of being told not to do so. And I won't let his unwarranted innuendos go unchallenged. I will post my rebuttals. But , if you guys are serious about cleaning up the act here , the usual suspects needs to be reigned in on . Just my 2 cents.

Now find me one thread after that rule was put in place will you.... Rebuttal do post that, my complain had been that u disappear so rebuttal wud be welcome change..

[kumble_rocks]

I can tell you its not a pretense .... and I will also tell you that I voted for removing all religious discusions and as you have noted yourselves I dont start any religious threads. And whenever I post in such threads I express myselves without being personal. What you are asking though is to enforce Political correctness . Thats not going to happen. If it does Iam outta here as will many others. And regarding who is correct and who is wrong .... its upto you and people who think like you to prove us wrong. As I have said before I will be the first to apologize and correct myselves.

That I can agree and vouch for it. At least you don't resort to personal abuses. But the real question is should angry posters like DR be allowed to do so . Time and again they have shown that they are incapable of civil discussion.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Seriously there has to sthg wrong with the psec brigade psyche who get so anguished over someone calling pakistan's bluff that they paint the place red with some unrelated stories....

[sandtest]

ST,

I shall debate you on this but before I do that I humbly ask you to keep Islam/Pakistan out of this as that frankly has started to tick me off greatly at ICF.

Why Lurker, an intellectual Indian like you should stand up to fact. If Pakistan is the greatest threat to India today, then we should not shy away from pointing that out -- instead I expect you will stand up and confront with the real issue of terrorism and it's covert supporters which has been bleeding us.

Okay coming to the issues you raised. Please tell me the answer to following questions: 1) How many Shiv Sainiks eventually ended at Kashmir willing to fight militants?? It is one thing to make promises(politicians do that all the time and in the end Thackeray is a politician) but to deliver on it, naaah they dont do that.

And in the same line how many Bhaiyyas from UP-Bihar have left Mumbai?? despite so called Thackerays call for their extinction? Bro, I myself from UP, grew-up in Mumbai, let me accept the reality. We UPites and Biharis have flooded Mumbai, because, I feel ashamed to say that our own state can't provide us enough to earn livelihood -- blame it on corruption, babugiri, netagiri that's totally different discussion. Thackeray like people suddenly found that Nationalism cannot mobilize vote bank when Marathi people are loosing their bread and butter to "par-prantiya". So this became the core-philosophy. You develop cities like Patna, Gaya, Chapara, Baliya, Allahabad, Jaunpur, Azamgarh as industrial cities and creat enough opportunities so that UPites and Biharis have not to go anywhere like Marathis and then see how this regionalism dies it's natural death. The regionalism, IMHIO, is not the brainchild of Thackeray, rather it's reflection of feeling of majority Marathi people in Mumbai who felt as outsiders in their own birthplace.

[kumble_rocks]

Now find me one thread after that rule was put in place will you.... Rebuttal do post that' date=' my complain had been that u disappear so rebuttal wud be welcome change..[/quote'] Utter BS(using your own words). Your pea sized brain fails to comprehend the fact that I am more of a reader and will post only if you make unwarranted innuendos in your poss . And I post my rebuttals once or twice , but you have this weird habit of repeating the same BS again and again and then challenging the posters after they are thorough because of sheer boredom.

[Lurker]

Why Lurker, an intellectual Indian like you should stand up to fact. If Pakistan is the greatest threat to India today, then we should not shy away from pointing that out -- instead I expect you will stand up and confront with the real issue of terrorism and it's covert supporters which has been bleeding us.

I shall pass on that since I mentioned I am not too keen on debating the same issue - Pakistan, Islam, Indian partition - day in and day out. Maybe some other time but not today. Would much rather talk about Neetu Singh for now!

And in the same line how many Bhaiyyas from UP-Bihar have left Mumbai?? despite so called Thackerays call for their extinction?

That doesnt answer the question now, does it ST. You suggested that SS asked its followers to Kashmir. My simple question is how many actually ended up there. Please tell me that first before I answer your question.

We UPites and Biharis have flooded Mumbai, because, I feel ashamed to say that our own state can't provide us enough to earn livelihood -- blame it on corruption, babugiri, netagiri that's totally different discussion.

I am not gonna buy it. Before liberalisation the erstwhile Bihar state(now Bihar and Jharkhand) provided over 1/3rd of India's natural minerals. Should Bihar have closed the border and said, "Hey Vishakapatnam, go get your own Coal and Iron for steel, why the eff should Bihar provide for you???". A country is a country. When you say Janani Janam Bhoomisch you dont mean UP/Bihar do you?? You mean India and as an Indian you are free to go anywhere you like. Anything short of that I am not gonna buy.

You develop cities like Patna, Gaya, Chapara, Baliya, Allahabad, Jaunpur, Azamgarh as industrial cities and creat enough opportunities so that UPites and Biharis have not to go anywhere like Marathis and then see how this regionalism dies it's natural death.

I dont disagree with that really. What I disagree with is why should any citizen of India be discriminated in India? Should I, as a Bihari, start asking this question: 1) Hey Marathis(or Tamils or whatever) what the eff did you do for Indian Freedom Movement? I dont think the first movement of Independence(Champaran) happened in Assam, it happened in Bihar! 2) Hey Punjabis where were you when Indira Gandhi put Emergency on India? Yeah sure today you say it is the darkest hour but why did only Bihar have to pay through JP movement? Why were students of Patna College slaughtered in streets of Patna and bodies dumped in Ganges? Why does Bihar have to pay so rest of the country kept its nose up? 3) Why are Indians so hell bent on saying Ashoka(or Magadha empire) was the best in the land. Reality check it was NOT an Indian king but a Magadha king..a Buddhist at that. yada yada yada.. Should I, as a Bihari, be allowed to ask those question which are anything but FACTS? xxxx

[kumble_rocks]

The reason he gets angry is because of discussions like this ..... he presents his views and people get upset because his views dont confirm to the Political Correctness code of conduct .... and instead of taking time to prove him wrong people go pointing fingers and crying foul. Thats not fair is it ?

And his views were that People like Thackerey /Togadia are million times more tolerant than Islamic nutters. All all I did was proceed to provide a background of Thackerey and how he has operated with a bigoted mind and he is equally bad. And why is it that you guys fail to comprehend that ?