Hail Dale - It's time to acknowledge that Steyn is among the all-time great fast bowlers

[rkt.india]

Ashok dinda and vinay kumar bowl outswinger too but we all know how useless they are , outswinger has nothing to with reverse but without an outswinger Steyn would not get those indippers . If reverse swing was as easy as you saying just reverse the side and bowl inswinger and change around and bowl outswinger next ball every one would do it. who said Ishant is good at reverse swing, he does get it but it is not that effective.

Dinda and Vinay are poor bowlers. They dont have enough pace or accuracy. Shami doesn't have a great outswing but he bowls good indippers too. And yes, change of side is what makes the ball go away both ways. The reason bowlers hide the ball. There are two ways of getting swing with old ball, keeping seam upright or have tilted seam on either sides, both way you can get swing but still depends on conditions, not exclusively on how you hold the ball. Regarding Ishant, he has been very effective with reverse in tests at least in India. He had a very good record in India till 2011 WI tour due to that, 51 wickets in 13 tests at 27.

[Crookbond]

So if it was conditions, what happened that Australia couldn't reverse?

[Old guy]

So if it was conditions' date=' what happened that Australia couldn't reverse?[/quote'] None of these current Aussie bowlers are known to reverse ..this is not really a strong attack

[Crookbond]

None of these current Aussie bowlers are known to reverse ..this is not really a strong attack

But reverse swing is ONLY due to conditions and not due to skill (check rkt's comment earlier). If so, the ball should've reversed for Australia too.

[Old guy]

But reverse swing is ONLY due to conditions and not due to skill (check rkt's comment earlier). If so' date=' the ball should've reversed for Australia too.[/quote'] i am surprised he said that ...yes without conditions no amount of skill will get you reverse but you need skill , particular type of release and more importantly controlling reverse is skill in itself there is a reason that even after ball tampering only steyn reversed it and not philander or morkel

[Marco Polo]

Steyn used to reverse it even in Ipl matches. I remember varun Aaron reversing it within 20 overs in ipl.

[rkt.india]

But reverse swing is ONLY due to conditions and not due to skill (check rkt's comment earlier). If so' date=' the ball should've reversed for Australia too.[/quote'] Condition means not just pitch but ball condition too. It depends on the ball. Sometimes, ball starts swinging early if it roughs up early, sometimes not. Otherwise, there is no explanation of swing with 14 overs old balls. It happens even with new ball. Every ball behaves differently whether new or old. SA are already infamous of their tactics to rough up the ball. You never know. I am sure Aus bowlers had bowled with same ball Steyn bowled, they would have got reverse too.

[Crookbond]

Condition means not just pitch but ball condition too. It depends on the ball. Sometimes' date=' ball starts swinging early if it roughs up early, sometimes not. Otherwise, there is no explanation of swing with 14 overs old balls. It happens even with new ball. Every ball behaves differently whether new or old. SA are already infamous of their tactics to rough up the ball. You never know. I am sure Aus bowlers had bowled with same ball Steyn bowled, they would have got reverse too.[/quote'] So maintaining the condition of the ball is a skill too then! Also, if you never know - how are you sure.

[Insidious]

But reverse swing is ONLY due to conditions and not due to skill (check rkt's comment earlier). If so' date=' the ball should've reversed for Australia too.[/quote'] Maintaining the ball is an important aspect too. I think English and south African bowlers are best when it comes to maintaing the ball

[Insidious]

Reverse swing depends mainly on conditions. For example- In eden Gardens ball starts to reverse after 12 overs, if maintained well. But you can't see the same in other subcontinental venues. Its depends how dry and abrasive the pitch is

[rkt.india]

So maintaining the condition of the ball is a skill too then! Also' date=' if you never know - how are you sure. [/quote'] But that doesn't have to do anything with bowler. Fielders maintain the ball mainly. You never know means no one knows how they made a 14 over old ball swing. People know kind of tactics they can employ. There are a lot variables which have nothing to do with a bowler. Same Steyn didn't reverse the ball in the last game.

[Crookbond]

But that doesn't have to do anything with bowler. Fielders maintain the ball mainly. You never know means no one knows how they made a 14 over old ball swing. People know kind of tactics they can employ. There are a lot variables which have nothing to do with a bowler. Same Steyn didn't reverse the ball in the last game.

Fair enough. Did all SA bowlers reverse the ball?

[Old guy]

Fair enough. Did all SA bowlers reverse the ball?

thats what i want to know in tests its normally only steyn who gets it and thats even in those ball tampering matches

[Insidious]

thats what i want to know in tests its normally only steyn who gets it and thats even in those ball tampering matches

Steyn gets it because his natural length is fuller which gives the ball maximum time to remain in air, and his pace ensures that the ball to dip in very late. Morkel natural length is short of good length which never give time for ball to swing in air, While philander never has the pace to move the ball late. So its simple why Steyn gets it and why no one other

[Old guy]

Steyn gets it because his natural length is fuller which gives the ball maximum time to remain in air' date=' and his pace ensures that the ball to dip in very late. Morkel natural length is short of good length which never give time for ball to swing in air, While philander never has the pace to move the ball late. So its simple why Steyn gets it and why no one other[/quote'] so you do need specific skill set no ? also about pace i do not think it is a factor it might make it more lethal but reverse can happen at lower pace too

[Old guy]

here is another thing i wanna know in case of england, anderson and bresnan use to get lot of reverse even at lower pace while broad did not even bowling at higher pace maybe length was little shorter but still if its "only" upto conditions he should get it some times when he bowls fuller no ?

[Insidious]

As Rkt said you don't required special skills to get Reverse swing. If you bowl fuller length at high pace, and importantly if conditions is suitable , and ball is well maintained any body can get Reverse swing. Even for India Umesh, shami, Ishant, aaron all are capable of getting reverse Swing. So this should Not be the question. The Question should be why steyn is so successful with reverse swing than others..Just Reversing the ball is not enough to take wickets. It needs certain skills like- 1) Hiding the ball till the last moment so that batsman can't see the shiny side 2) Switching the shiny side to make the odd delivery go away from batsman 3) Setting up the batsman for that big in dipping toe cruiser. 4) Most importantly excellent control over the ball, while bowling at high pace. And steyn has everything

[Old guy]

isnt this true for other things like normal swing ? or spin ? everything you described is skill in itself!

[Insidious]

here is another thing i wanna know in case of england, anderson and bresnan use to get lot of reverse even at lower pace while broad did not even bowling at higher pace maybe length was little shorter but still if its "only" upto conditions he should get it some times when he bowls fuller no ?

You Missed the point, Anderson was so successful because he can up his pace to 85-88 mph which is good enough to get reverse swing. The most important aspect about anderson bowling is he can switch the shiny side and can hide the ball till the last moment, hence not giving enough time for the batsman to decipher which way it will swing. Zaheer too falls in the same category.

[Old guy]

You Missed the point' date=' Anderson was so successful because he can up his pace to 85-88 mph which is good enough to get reverse swing. The most important aspect about anderson bowling is he can switch the shiny side and can hide the ball till the last moment, hence not giving enough time for the batsman to decipher which way it will swing. Zaheer too falls in the same category.[/quote'] anderson in india and against pak (in abu dhabi) bowled in low 130's and got reverse and same with bhuvi in this recent test series