Dhoni overtakes Ganguly's tally of 21 test wins as captain

[Ultimate_Game]

Both Ganguly & Dhoni have been special and we have been fortunate to have them both. Ganguly was the one who made India competitive after being jokes outside the SC for ages, and Dhoni carried on from there and helped India reach the pinnacle, especially in odis with World Cup as cherry on the cake. We have been extremely lucky to get these two difference makers close together and let's leave at that rather than arguing over who was the best. Both have been good in their own rights given the circumstances they played in. Ganguly took a team not known for its fight, especially outside India, and turned the team and it's attitude around. he took the initial steps to earn India respect in the new millennium. However in the odis he wasn't able to clear the final hurdle with his teams known for losing finals. I believe at one time India lost 9 consecutive finals under Ganguly. Dhoni continued from where Ganguly left off and ensured India became the no. 1 ranked in Tests, and took the next step in odis. India became a real force in odis and generally could be relied upon to deliver in the finals under pressure, and India's WC 2011 win in the finals while chasing the highest ever total highlights the fact.

[rkt.india]

Captaincy is not about just field placings and tactics.It is about leading from the front by performances. Yes you need a good team to win but as captain you just cannot be a passenger on a good team. Dhoni has been for most part in his captaincy been a passenger without any major performances on the field especially in tests abroad.His captaincy has come across as timid and lack of any foresight. Indian team had worked very hard to shed tigers at home and lambs abroad stigma and to some extent they were doing that till twin disasters. Dhoni is compounding that problem by opting for dust bowls once other team gets on top of the spinners no offense to Ohja or Ashwin they just are not great bowlers yet India has no answer like in mumbai or Kolkatta. It is mystery why Ishant is being persisted over and over again without anything to show for, This guy is done no point in giving him any chances.

Is Dhoni a specialist batsman, no? He is a wk/bat so only see him as wk/bat and as a wk/bat he is a very decent test cricketer, will never be a great test player. He never was and is still not. He does not have good enough technique to perform consistently abroad and he will never do it. I can show you that he has better batting record as captain than most of our previous captains likes of Ganguly, Dravid and Azhar. Where Ishant comes into this thread from?

[CG]

Is Dhoni a specialist batsman, no? He is a wk/bat so only see him as wk/bat and as a wk/bat he is a very decent test cricketer, will never be a great test player. He never was and is still not. He does not have good enough technique to perform consistently abroad and he will never do it. I can show you that he has better batting record as captain than most of our previous captains likes of Ganguly, Dravid and Azhar. Where Ishant comes into this thread from?

Batting record does not take in to account the bowling faced or eras they played in azhar and ganguly faced a whole lot diff level of bowling than dhoni ever has.

[CG]

:WTF: Zaheer picked from nowhere. Where did you get that? He was one of the best bowlers in domestic cricket and was taking lots of wickets. Same with Irfan, he was picked based on his U19 and FC performances. They picked based on these not because Ganguly saw them playing in gully matches and picked. Ganguly was just made captain when Zaheer made his debut in ICC trophy in Kenya. and Picking players is job of selectors who watch domestic matches. jadeja is not picked by Dhoni itself. He played 2 U19 WC for India, did well in FC and then was picked by selectors.

We all know how ganguly insisted on bhajji for aus series in 2001 .Ganguly was good spotter of talent in a time where regionalism in selection was a big talking point.Ganguly had his fair share of failures like mongia and other but dhoni too had backed flukes .Ganguly really lost in the end of his captaincy where he was as bad as dhoni.

[rkt.india]

Batting record does not take in to account the bowling faced or eras they played in azhar and ganguly faced a whole lot diff level of bowling than dhoni ever has.

That does not matter because you can face what is there. Form your logic, Bradman's record are waste because bowling attack on those days were not of great standard too.

[CG]

That does not matter because you can face what is there. Form your logic' date=' Bradman's record are waste because bowling attack on those days were not of great standard too.[/quote'] It matters in 90s 40 was considered a good average and not many people have above 50 average.

[rkt.india]

It matters in 90s 40 was considered a good average and not many people have above 50 average.

Ganguly played 8 years of his cricket in 2000s and just 4 in 90s and he became captain in 2000s too. and other than comparing batting records of Ganguly and Dhoni is not fair at all because Ganguly mostly batted in top 6 and was playing as a specialist batsman. Dhoni was never a specialist batsman. You can consider him an alrounder for the team who contributes in two aspects keeping and batting. So, as an alrounder his batting record is no less than any other alrounder. If someone expects him to play like a specialist batsman like Dravid or SRT then its expecting a bit too much. Dhoni does not have in him to be a great test batsman. Even Ganguly was just an average test batsman.

[Sidhoni]

Rubbish. He has been gifted one of the greatest sides of all time from Ganguly who bought through HIM' date=' GG, Sehwag, Bhaji, Zak, Nehra, Pathan[/quote'] Greatest side of all times? The side which couldn't even score above 300 in 8 attempts against the poms?

[CG]

Ganguly played 8 years of his cricket in 2000s and just 4 in 90s and he became captain in 2000s too. and other than comparing batting records of Ganguly and Dhoni is not fair at all because Ganguly mostly batted in top 6 and was playing as a specialist batsman. Dhoni was never a specialist batsman. You can consider him an alrounder for the team who contributes in two aspects keeping and batting. So, as an alrounder his batting record is no less than any other alrounder. If someone expects him to play like a specialist batsman like Dravid or SRT then its expecting a bit too much. Dhoni does not have in him to be a great test batsman. Even Ganguly was just an average test batsman.

Bowling attacks till 2004 had some pedigree .In todays day and age batting average have rocketed due to flat pitches,poor bowlers.

[rkt.india]

Bowling attacks till 2004 had some pedigree .In todays day and age batting average have rocketed due to flat pitches' date='poor bowlers.[/quote'] that is not an excuse. Please check what Dravid scored before 2006 and after 2006. If it was the case, he should have scored many more runs against mediocre bowlers than he scored before. Dravid between 2007 and 2011 averaged 38 in tests. Ricky Ponting second bets batsman of the decade should have scored many more in this period too but that was not the case. His fate is similar like Dravid. Why these 2 guys could not score much against mediocre bowling attacks? Actually, the teams who had good fast bowling attack before 2004, still has good fast bowling attack now like Australia and SA. England had an average attack then and have better attack now. WI is the only team which have inferior bowling attack now but even their inferior bowling attack is very handy for against any team.

[saneindian]

RKT and CG some stats to chew for both of you Ganguly after 116 innings - 4371 runs@42, 11 100s and 20 50s Dhoni after 116 innings- 4107 runs@40, 6 100s and 28 50s :P

[Raghav_12]

Bowling attacks till 2004 had some pedigree .In todays day and age batting average have rocketed due to flat pitches' date='poor bowlers.[/quote'] yet, what batting record we are talking about - an average of 18 in Australia, average of 22 in WI, average of 31 in SA. Outside India he has decent average only in Eng (39). Pakistand and NZ are too small sample sizes. He is yet to score a century outside India and Pakistan.

[Sidhoni]

RKT and CG some stats to chew for both of you Ganguly after 116 innings - 4371 runs@42, 11 100s and 20 50s Dhoni after 116 innings- 4107 runs@40, 6 100s and 28 50s :P

Whoa! Interesting stat there. Wonder what Ganguly fans have to say about that? Similar records despite one being a specialist bat and the other a WK/Bat.

[rkt.india]

RKT and CG some stats to chew for both of you Ganguly after 116 innings - 4371 runs@42, 11 100s and 20 50s Dhoni after 116 innings- 4107 runs@40, 6 100s and 28 50s :P

What I need to chew here. Ganguly as a specialist batsman is not distinctively ahead of Dhoni who plays as a Wk/bat and as a captain batsman Dhoni has already surpassed Ganguly.

[rkt.india]

yet' date=' what batting record we are talking about - an average of 18 in Australia, average of 22 in WI, average of 31 in SA. Outside India he has decent average only in Eng (39). Pakistand and NZ are too small sample sizes. He is yet to score a century outside India and Pakistan.[/quote'] and great batsman like Dravid, Ponting, and Tendulkar struggled against mediocre bowlers at some point in this period.

[Raghav_12]

and great batsman like Dravid' date=' Ponting, and Tendulkar struggled against mediocre bowlers at some point in this period.[/quote'] what some point of time you are talking about? Dhoni has played more around 30 tests outside Sc but yet to score a hundred.

[Sidhoni]

what some point of time you are talking about? Dhoni has played more around 30 tests outside Sc but yet to score a hundred.

He has some 90's which are better than 100s. Like the one against SA in SA where he had a partnership with Sachin and Sachin scored a 100 while Dhoni was out for 90. There was another one when he took on English bowlers and was out in the 90's trying to hit a six. He made 70 odd against England to save a test match for us which led to a series victory later.

[CG]

that is not an excuse. Please check what Dravid scored before 2006 and after 2006. If it was the case, he should have scored many more runs against mediocre bowlers than he scored before. Dravid between 2007 and 2011 averaged 38 in tests. Ricky Ponting second bets batsman of the decade should have scored many more in this period too but that was not the case. His fate is similar like Dravid. Why these 2 guys could not score much against mediocre bowling attacks? Actually, the teams who had good fast bowling attack before 2004, still has good fast bowling attack now like Australia and SA. England had an average attack then and have better attack now. WI is the only team which have inferior bowling attack now but even their inferior bowling attack is very handy for against any team.

Everybody goes downhill after a certain age.

[saneindian]

Everybody goes downhill after a certain age.

In 2006, Dravid was only 32-33, too early to go on a downhill :--D

[ravishingravi]

Great! Dhoni doing so with a weaker team as well and still has a better record.

Fanboyzz dont draw a line anywhere.