Gandhiji keeps amazing me: Bhai mahan the aap janaab

[Guest dada_rocks]

Not true ! I am willing to concede that poor judgment was made by Gandhiji if OP is true' date=' which I happen to believe it is . Now, would you be kind enough to consider the context , Gandhi wanted a united front against the British and hence the support for the Khilafat movement . That's why I am never in favor for this theory of "Enemy of Enemy is a Friend". Too much blow back from this principle , case in point USA tacit support for Mujhadeen against Soviet has come back to haunt them.[/quote'] Granted contextual benfit of doubt for Khilafat ( he miserably failed in keeping india united through these policies of his. Enough reason for not to perpetuate the appeasement in name of unity, never works). Now tell me why support of khilafat means statements which Ali brothers gave must be condoned by great Mahatma ( The statment basically calls for aiding the foreign occupier so can't be defende by some twisted unity of India being propagated theory). Again in case of MOPLA killing affairs u wud say Gandhiji didn't want them to be criticised because he wanted united India. So they cud go on killing but that must not be criticised because they might ask for separate state that's what the message he gave. ( neither he cud keep India divided nor he cud stop the killing . Again enough cue for what gandhiji was doing was downright stupid) . Shoving burning issues under carpet lest your brother might ask for division of property might delay the inevitable but never solves the problem..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Are we dealing with beggers or what ??? just $10??? :hysterical: I think $100, 000 wont be more than penny for some one who could achieve and lead the 10% of life the way Gandhiji did. Where do you find such people. And we have guts to talk about His few mistakes. How can we know the cercumstances, the reality, what was going on in his mind etc. While I dont deny what OP states but it clearly shows where the attention of Right wing in our country is. Its petty that they have targeted our National Leader of his stature for all the time. Nehru ??? no comments..

Again why you guys find it so hard to keep the subject of debate in mind.. Nobody claimed he didn't sacrifice anything . Issue is his dealing in matters of khilafat ali brothers remark and Mopla affairs.. If u notice even while criticing Gandhiji gets called Ji for this very reason, but that doesn;t mean whatever he did must be lapped up as gospel.. I am yet to hear even single justification of his deeds in MOPLA affairs in Ali brothers open vissiperous comments affairs..

[Gambit]

Like Gandhi amazes you, you continue to amaze me DR.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Not to mention the fact that he and Ghaffar Khan are the ONLY two National heroes that were seen fighting the fire during the darkest days of sub-continent(1947 partition). I would be more than interested in finding out if peeps can show me anyone else, from Nehru to Patel, Azaad to Jinnah, who had the moral gumption of staying in the most troubled and violent area during partition and bring the violence down by themselves. That single act of bravery is lot more than the combined might of lungidhaaris till date. xxx

Although ur post as usual are irrelevant to the subject of debate but I guess u need to go through the history lessons over what was Patel doing in OLD Delhi region during riots .. Forget Nehru he was sissy to the core... PS: Nobody has yet questioned his commitment during riots , it seems it's futile to keep pointing the same thing out to you:haha:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Like Gandhi amazes you' date=' you continue to amaze me DR.[/quote'] That's not the subject of debate..And this barb ( bonafide ad hominem) might have disqualified you from the really moderated debate.. anyway

[kumble_rocks]

Although ur post as usual are irrelevant to the subject of debate but I guess u need to go through the history lessons over what was Patel doing in OLD Delhi region during riots .. Forget Nehru he was sissy to the core... PS: Nobody has yet questioned his commitment during riots , it seems it's futile to keep pointing the same thing out to you:haha:

That was uncalled for , Sir ! He may or may not be a lot of things , but sissy certainly not ! In fact , a guy who is willing to be trampled by marauding horses certainly has more guts than any one here !

[Lurker]

Although ur post as usual are irrelevant to the subject of debate but I guess u need to go through the history lessons over what was Patel doing in OLD Delhi region during riots .. Forget Nehru he was sissy to the core...

And I am pretty it was more dangerous to be in National capital as compared to Noakholi. Yes sure you know quite much about history. :hysterical::hysterical:

Nobody has yet questioned his commitment during riots , it seems it's futile to keep pointing the same thing out to you

It has perhaps become a secondary habit of you to just debate without even thinking. Someone mentioned something nice about Gandhi, I added more. Where did I suggest you, or anyone else, was criticizing Gandhi during riots? Would you kindly show me that or shut up for good..Please? xxxx

[Lurker]

That's not the subject of debate..And this barb ( bonafide ad hominem) might have disqualified you from the really moderated debate.. anyway

And that in essence is your problem DR. This website, ICF, is NOT a debating platform. Most of us, excluding you perhaps, log in here to discuss and have fun. Sure that doesnt mean not discussing hard topics every now and then but what it does mean is not to treat this as a debating site. If your life depends on debates I suggest you look up for www.debatingismylife.com. Cheers! xxxx

[kumble_rocks]

The OP is twisted in its own ar. The poster, as always, picks a random article and points, again as usual, what suits his agenda. The original article is regarding the current Ram Setu controversy ongoing and the author(KPS Gill) has used this to take us back in time. Fair enough, thats his right as an author but you can bet your bottom dollar that right winger, or should I say right whiner, should pick this up to take pot-shots at Gandhi. Which is why I asked directly DR to be original and write what he feels about Gandhi, once and for all. No surprises that he surrendered without a fight. Obviously it goes without saying that his tag-team member runs with the ball without bothering to open the article and say "Hey wait a minute why are you making a Ram Setu article into a Gandhi bashing one". Getting back to the original topic(if you can call it that) I have started to wonder about KPS Gill. Too often I have seen him take pot shots at Muslims but rarely, if ever, has he ever painted the Sikhs with the same brush. Just go to this list of article on Outlook http://outlookindia.com/author.asp?name=K%2EP%2ES%2E+Gill and see how many of these directly deal with Islam. I remember once how he came strongly against Muslim in Parliamentary reservation based on religion. What he conviniently forgot in that article was that Sikhs were lot more vociferous about this in early 50s and had it not been for Maulana Abul Kalaam Azaad(who talked Muslims away from it back then) we would have had seperate seats for Muslim-Sikhs just as we have for SC/STs today. xxx

Good Post ! Hit the nail on the head .

[kumble_rocks]

That is incorrect.

I thought debating religious topics were discouraged here ! When did the rule change ?

[Guest dada_rocks]

So summary so far (1) Lurker as usual has wrote on everythingnder the sun except the point of OP. (2)KR came closest to addressing the issue but even he kept himself confined to why gandhi particiapted in Khilafat (which was addendum to OP but not the OP per se). (3) Nobody has addressed the OP which is why Mahatma chose not to say a pip against the words of Ali brothers which basically calls for another sort of foreign occupation this tiem from islamist of Afghanistan. (4) Nobody has addressed the addendum of why Mahtama would keep denying MOPLA mass-murder or belatedly justify it over supposed provocation (even provocation is not known). if anyone provoked it was torkish govt nto MOpla hidus. I get it he was great he was risking his life in riots he has done million other things but that's not the point of debate.. Neither is KPS Gill nor is DR. Now try again ( sans lurker) I guess he can't help taking detour, aadat se lachar hai

[Gambit]

That's not the subject of debate..And this barb ( bonafide ad hominem) might have disqualified you from the really moderated debate.. anyway

Mine was an ad hominem attack? How sensitive are you?

[Lurker]

That is incorrect.

No you Sir are incorrect. And if I may humbly point out as a MOD, you above all should know this. Here is what I pulled from About us section:

Eight months ago, e-mailing each other over autumn weekends, we were a malcontented bunch. We knew we wanted a place of our own, a place where we could post with abandon and without fear of censure, and yet didn't know exactly how to go about it. As a band of almost fanatical Indian supporters, cricket excited us of course, but it was a lot more than that. As a community, we often bounced problems off each other, exchanged brainteasers on math and science, wrote unashamedly unofficial reviews of movies, books and art, floated the odd cuisine and a whole lot of gossip. To cut a long story short, we wanted our very own community. Luckily our small group included some bright individuals who brought a wealth of knowledge to this kind of undertaking, could fix us up with a dedicated server, and had the technical know how to run a site such as the one we craved for. We rummaged frantically into our address books, and dug up the names of as many cricket co-religionists that we could find. We needed punters for what we had in mind. On the 23rd of October, 2006, we were up and running. The days of communicating by e-mail were behind us. From a site with only 9 start up posters, this has now mushroomed into a 900+ member site that buzzes through all hours of the day and night. En route, we have survived three changes in software and one hacking attempt. We tried to live up to the ideology that we always dreamt of in the days when we did not have an address- to allow free and fair expression to all posters, irrespective of their calling, to keep moderation to a minimum, and to create a maelstrom of cricket, sport, science, math, medicine, movies and literature, where anybody who wanted to talk just about anything would find his niche. And thus was Indiancricketfans born.

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/index.php?pageid=aboutus I challenge you to find me the word "debate" in there. Either you go ahead and update that OR stop making this website into a debate one. xxxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

Thanks for the laugh. Let me be the first to hold a mirror in front of you and tell you that most of the peopl, if not all here, find your post nauseating. They all harp on same tunes: 1) anti-Muslim 2) anti-India 3) anti-Gandhi 4) anti-Communists etc..sometimes I wonder where so much hate comes from. Ignorance perhaps? Well its your life anyway. You are contesting nothing. Simply because you dont have a clue as always. You pick a random line from KPS Gill's article about something and are trying to build a anti-Gandhi hysteria. You will always find a usual suspect that shall join you and then I can safely guess what road this thread shall venture. Here is a suggestion. Why dont you ever, and I mean ever, sit down and write an entire article by yourself?? I would be more than happy if it would be about Muslim or Pakistan or whatever but atleast you would be original for a change. All that you, and haters like you, do is pick a random sample and base your theory on that! Like I said, stop having others fight your battle. Here is what I would like you to do. Take me up on this if you have conviction of your ideas. I want you to write something original, it could be your issues with Gandhi or Pakistan and we can debate that. You can tell me about 10 things you dont like about Gandhi(say) or 10 things that you do but atleast it will be your own works and not some cr@polla dissed by KPS Gilly. Atleast I can debate you directly without wondering what KPS Gill meant?? And even if we dont reach a conclusion atleast you can stop posting 9 different one-track thread everyday that spoils mood of all and sundry(certainly spoils mine). Sounds fair? Read up once again. Why is that? I simply asked you a question, or are you unable to answer a direct question DR? xxx

You sud speak for yourslef lurker leave others aside.. Have u noticed even after zillion posts you are yet to comment on OP's basic tenet. What the heck is original will Ali brothers statment change in that piece.. stop *****footing with ad-hoiimnem in every thread.. First KPS Gill now DR.. Repeat after me neither KPS GIll made that stament nor DR thousand times .. may be eventually u will get it what constiutes the debate..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Mine was an ad hominem attack? How sensitive are you?

Ad hominem is anything that comments on commentator may not be denigrading but certainly remains meaningless in debate..

[Guest dada_rocks]

No you Sir are incorrect. And if I may humbly point out as a MOD, you above all should know this. Here is what I pulled from About us section: http://www.indiancricketfans.com/index.php?pageid=aboutus I challenge you to find me the word "debate" in there. Either you go ahead and update that OR stop making this website into a debate one. xxxx

Call it discussion if u will doesn't change a thing. if u keep meandering everywhere without addressing the point of discusison verdict wud be the same..

[kumble_rocks]

So KPS Gill cannot be taken seriously because he comments a lot on Islam ? Is that what you are saying KR ?

KPS Gill is a public figure , He can speak his mind provided he can back it up with facts ! The question I have is can we or can we not discuss topics like this which invariably becomes religious in nature? Please clarify , because I don't want the Moderators to come into the picture later like Indian Police and start lecturing !:D:D

[Lurker]

Call it discussion if u will doesn't change a thing. if u keep meandering everywhere without addressing the point of discusison verdict wud be the same..

Matlab basically when I talk to BB you have to get in between and vice-versa. Let him be, he is a grown-up man who has just mentioned something to which I have replied. As for you good to see you realize this is NOT a debate site. Hopefully we can keep it to discussions now. xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

And I am pretty it was more dangerous to be in National capital as compared to Noakholi. Yes sure you know quite much about history. :hysterical::hysterical: It has perhaps become a secondary habit of you to just debate without even thinking. Someone mentioned something nice about Gandhi, I added more. Where did I suggest you, or anyone else, was criticizing Gandhi during riots? Would you kindly show me that or shut up for good..Please? xxxx

Riot is riot there is no danger-meter whihc says this is more dangerous or that is less dangerous. Trapped in riot u can get killed anywhere.. Anyway this danger level measurment is not the point point is just like gNAhdi he was in thick of things controlling riots. Minutes ago you were claiming others were doing nothing when I showed how ignorant u were on that count suddenly ur danger-meter came into picture... :haha:

[Ram]

I see that all the usual suspects are at work again ! :D