FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 http://deshgujarat.com/2013/04/16/shabnam-hashmis-anhad-is-majorly-church-funded/
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Christian Aid is an international development charity. We work with people, of all faiths and none, in around 50 countries, to eradicate poverty. What's the problem with the source of funds?
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Hashmi's NGO has been biggest detractor of modi along with teesta and mander and other NGO operators who have no business but to attack modi. It is important to know who funds them.
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 It is very well important to know her source of funds despite of her stance on Modi. The source of funds of the NGO has got nothing to do with her stance on Modi. In case the assertions she makes are false, you can disprove them without knowing the source of funds from the NGO.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Evangelical fundamentalists only target countries where they are able to convert people to their fold. http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/03/15/christian-aid/ http://m.csmonitor.com/2005/0131/p11s01-lire.html
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 So? Why can't evangelical fundamentalist backed organization raise human right concerns? Like I said earlier, you prove or disprove on the empirical data of human right concerns/conditions in Gujarat. Currently, you are indulging in ad hominem to hide the actual issue. http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html Example - Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong." Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest." Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?" Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say." If you are interested in human rights issues in Gujarat, please post data on "why" these issues shouldn't be raised.
ravishingravi Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 lol at the link. But I think a story was done on this by Times now. There was also a story on Angana Chatterjee who was openly funded by ISI. But funding is not really relevant as long as they have valid viewpoint.
Swing_n_Speed Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Or we could do what Russia did, ban all funding of NGO's by USA. Just like what Russia did.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 So? Why can't evangelical fundamentalist backed organization raise human right concerns? Like I said earlier, you prove or disprove on the empirical data of human right concerns/conditions in Gujarat. Currently, you are indulging in ad hominem to hide the actual issue. http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html Example - If you are interested in human rights issues in Gujarat, please post data on "why" these issues shouldn't be raised. because their approach to raising human rights concerns is based on how well they can infiltrate other countries and proselytize. its selective in its approach of whose human rights to fight for. they only do it for people they can convert. for you to say that a funding of an NGO shouldnt be taken into account when analyzing their motives is quite naive. If an NGO doesnt perform the way the person funding them, naturally the funds will stop coming. If you look at conversions going on in tribal districts in India, like the Dangs, they are done by evangelicals. Why, because Indian government allows them to. Just like in Africa, the primary purpose of such evangelical organizations is to teach the native people that their belief is wrong and they are savages, until they accept christ. it happened to the native americans in America, indigenous people in South America, mexico, africa,etc. To say that these organizations care for human rights of people and are not interested in converting them has been historically proved wrong
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 lol at the link. But I think a story was done on this by Times now. There was also a story on Angana Chatterjee who was openly funded by ISI. But funding is not really relevant as long as they have valid viewpoint. why lol at the link? Because its not MSM :facepalm:
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 because their approach to raising human rights concerns is based on how well they can infiltrate other countries and proselytize. its selective in its approach of whose human rights to fight for. they only do it for people they can convert. for you to say that a funding of an NGO shouldnt be taken into account when analyzing their motives is quite naive. If an NGO doesnt perform the way the person funding them' date=' naturally the funds will stop coming. If you look at conversions going on in tribal districts in India, like the Dangs, they are done by evangelicals. Why, because Indian government allows them to. Just like in Africa, the primary purpose of such evangelical organizations is to teach the native people that their belief is wrong and they are savages, until they accept christ. it happened to the native americans in America, indigenous people in South America, mexico, africa,etc. To say that these organizations care for human rights of people and are not interested in converting them has been historically proved wrong[/quote'] Dekhiye, Ghalib ka yeh khayaal hai ki hum, hindi mein, kuchh muddon par sparshta laane ka prayatn karenge. Is vishay par 2 samasyaein hain [1] Gujarat rajya mein manaav adhikaar [2] Videshi kattarvaadiyon se nidhikaarna Ab aapko [2] par jo bhi bolna hai woh bol dijiye, par iss baat ka khayal rake ki agar rurhivaadi saangathana Gujarat logon ke maanv adhikar ke muddhe uttahye iska matlab yeh nahi ki yeh muddhon ki vaidhata nahi hai. Gujarat mein samajya kalyan ki samasya, desh ki ayoga yojana ke riporton mein padhne ki hum aapko vimnamrata se vinanti karte hai. Lekin agar aap aarthik vikaason ka mudda lekar samajya kalyaano ke upar parda daalna chahte hai toh uska na mein kuch kar sakta hu, na hi sarkaar kuch kar sakti hai.
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 why lol at the link? Because its not MSM :facepalm: Because the link will always spin a positive tale about Gujarat and Modi - same argument you are using against the source of funds to Anhad.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Dekhiye, Ghalib ka yeh khayaal hai ki hum, hindi mein, kuchh muddon par sparshta laane ka prayatn karenge. Is vishay par 2 samasyaein hain [1] Gujarat rajya mein manaav adhikaar [2] Videshi kattarvaadiyon se nidhikaarna Ab aapko [2] par jo bhi bolna hai woh bol dijiye, par iss baat ka khayal rake ki agar rurhivaadi saangathana Gujarat logon ke maanv adhikar ke muddhe uttahye iska matlab yeh nahi ki yeh muddhon ki vaidhata nahi hai. Gujarat mein samajya kalyan ki samasya, desh ki ayoga yojana ke riporton mein padhne ki hum aapko vimnamrata se vinanti karte hai. Lekin agar aap aarthik vikaason ka mudda lekar samajya kalyaano ke upar parda daalna chahte hai toh uska na mein kuch kar sakta hu, na hi sarkaar kuch kar sakti hai. ab aap bhi suniye, vishe pe tipni karne ka adhikar sabhi kon hein, lekin jo sanstha pehle se gujarat sarkar ki burai karte ayi hain, agar uske baare mein hum jaanch karein, toh phir us sanstha ke raaz koh baar lana bhi ek uch vichar ka kaam hain. yadhi agar aapko is mudde ko swikar karna hi nahi hain, aur is ki jaach se apko aitraaz hain, toh aap ko samjhane ka kaam bhi nahin hain. jon log human rights ka bogey lekar apne bachon ka peth bhar te hain, unse mein zyada umeed nahin rakhta ken woh muddon ko acchi tare se pesh karenge.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Because the link will always spin a positive tale about Gujarat and Modi - same argument you are using against the source of funds to Anhad. just like MSM which primarily shows Modi in negative light. DG is not funded by RSS or modi.
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 ab aap bhi suniye' date=' [b']vishe pe tipni karne ka adhikar sabhi kon hein, lekin jo sanstha pehle se gujarat sarkar ki burai karte ayi hain, agar uske baare mein hum jaanch karein, toh phir us sanstha ke raaz koh baar lana bhi ek uch vichar ka kaam hain. yadhi agar aapko is mudde ko swikar karna hi nahi hain, aur is ki jaach se apko aitraaz hain, toh aap ko samjhane ka kaam bhi nahin hain. jon log human rights ka bogey lekar apne bachon ka peth bhar te hain, unse mein zyada umeed nahin rakhta ken woh muddon ko acchi tare se pesh karenge. That was my point - thanks for accepting. So stop turning this into a moral argument. You can question the motives but you can't throw away the issue. Now, next point - tell me how is Christian Aid UK evangelical? Any proof? Did you even read the blog link you posted?
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 just like MSM which primarily shows Modi in negative light. DG is not funded by RSS or modi. Yea - that is why you post articles from TOI which praise Modi.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 That was my point - thanks for accepting. So stop turning this into a moral argument. You can question the motives but you can't throw away the issue. Now, next point - tell me how is Christian Aid UK evangelical? Any proof? Did you even read the blog link you posted? i dont believe that its right for foreign NGOs to fund organizations that have agenda to keep criticizing a democratically elected CM. Has ANHAD ever praised Modi? NO. they only see him through 2002 prism.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Yea - that is why you post articles from TOI which praise Modi. ever read their editorial section? difference between a news story and opinion of the people who run the paper. dilip padgaonkar comes to my mind.
FischerTal Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Because the link will always spin a positive tale about Gujarat and Modi - same argument you are using against the source of funds to Anhad. any proof DG spins things in Modi's favor? It is an independent internet news service run by gujarati journalist Japan Pathak.
Crookbond Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 i dont believe that its right for foreign NGOs to fund organizations that have agenda to keep criticizing a democratically elected CM. Has ANHAD ever praised Modi? NO. they only see him through 2002 prism. That's a moral position not a legal one - any person you, me and even the beggar on the street has complete right to voice his opinion against what he feels is right. You and I can do nothing about it. Next, you are putting up a straw man now. Agenda? Anhad is just receiving funds. Just because some stupid cardinal of the church said that he expects a "return" for aid it doesn't mean all the other people in the church will pat his back and say "I do too". Remember we are talking about Anhad and it's source of funds. You can cast a doubt over the source of funds but you can't establish fait accompli that there's a foregone agenda. It's up to you to prove beyond doubt that there is an agenda. Acceptance of funds hitherto does not prove anything.
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