Ishwar Pandey Thread

[Vijy]

Seems to be doing well almost everywhere and pace wise if we play shami and umesh it won't matter at 135 he can do the job

Exactly! Shami can be the swing bowler at a good pace, Yadav the out and out pacer (who needs to add either a bit more control or swing) and Pandey can bowl dry. This bowling dry aspect is something we don't appreciate enough in India. Siddle does it beautifully for Oz, and Phil for SA and even Bresnan did it well for England during their peak.

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http://www.starsports.com/cricket/video/vod/videoid=1299253/index.html#talking-tactics-with-aakash-chopra-1299253

[Old guy]

Exactly! Shami can be the swing bowler at a good pace' date=' Yadav the out and out pacer (who needs to add either a bit more control or swing) and Pandey can bowl dry. This bowling dry aspect is something we don't appreciate enough in India. Siddle does it beautifully for Oz, and Phil for SA and even Bresnan did it well for England during their peak.[/quote'] Yep..also we need good new ball bowler who swings the ball and this guy is best Instead of thinking of finding everything in one guy we need attack with every thing:two_thumbs_up: Bowlers like steyn are rare but u can survive even with good bowlers if u don't have great ones specially team like India who has good batting

[express bowling]

If he has high swing/accuracy his lack of pace may not hurt him too much. Asif was one bowler who mostly bowled about 2-3 kms faster than the above range' date=' but he has a stellar record.[/quote'] Problem is, he may bowl with other slow pacers. Shami is the only quickish pacer in favour now. If Shami is fit , it could be one quick and two medium pacers. If he is injured or rested , it could be 3 medium pacers. Such combinations rarely work. One good medium pacer combined with two good quicks often have been fantastic.

[Vijy]

Yep..also we need good new ball bowler who swings the ball and this guy is best Instead of thinking of finding everything in one guy we need attack with every thing:two_thumbs_up: Bowlers like steyn are rare but u can survive even with good bowlers if u don't have great ones specially team like India who has good batting

We can only play 3 pacers at most, unless a true allrounder comes along. However, I feel that we should have a flexible policy wherein 3-4 out of these pacers play in a match: Rishi Dhawan - seems to be quite decent at swinging the ball, though not much pace. Can bat somewhat Pandey - extracts bounce and swing; not very fast Bhuvi - new ball expert and can bat a bit Pankaj - Tall seamer who extracts bounce Shami - has good pace and swings the ball well, esp reversing Aaron and Yadav - true quick bowlers. I'd really like to see a 5 bowler attack everywhere but for that we need Dhobi to move on, and a competent batsman-keeper (note order of the words I used) to bat at 6. I think Sir J can improve and bat at 7. This would leave 4 slots open for the above pacers in pace-friendly conditions.

[Old guy]

Problem is, he may bowl with other slow pacers. Shami is the only quickish pacer in favour now. If Shami is fit , it could be one wick and teo medium pacers. If he is injured or rested , it could be 3 medium pacers. Such combinations rarely work. One good medium pacer combined with two good quicks often have been fantastic.

But he is either going to replace sharma or zack and we will fit in yadav too So attack looks fine to me Even of we play 3 medium pacers cos none of quicker guys are unavailable even still u cannot ignore this guy without giving a chance cos he has been consistent in ranji,a tours and every tournament he has played for some time .. He cannot be so bad that he can't even get into this weak Indian side

[Vijy]

But he is either going to replace sharma or zack and we will fit in yadav too So attack looks fine to me Even of we play 3 medium pacers cos none of quicker guys are unavailable even still u cannot ignore this guy without giving a chance cos he has been consistent in ranji,a tours and every tournament he has played for some time .. He cannot be so bad that he can't even get into this weak Indian side

Yep. We nearly failed to defend 450+ score on a fairly helpful pitch. And in the next test, our pacers took 3 wickets for 300+ runs. Shami was the best of 3, and even he has a lot to learn and improve. I'd take even Legend VK over Ishant Sharma.

[Old guy]

We can only play 3 pacers at most, unless a true allrounder comes along. However, I feel that we should have a flexible policy wherein 3-4 out of these pacers play in a match: Rishi Dhawan - seems to be quite decent at swinging the ball, though not much pace. Can bat somewhat Pandey - extracts bounce and swing; not very fast Bhuvi - new ball expert and can bat a bit Pankaj - Tall seamer who extracts bounce Shami - has good pace and swings the ball well, esp reversing Aaron and Yadav - true quick bowlers. I'd really like to see a 5 bowler attack everywhere but for that we need Dhobi to move on, and a competent batsman-keeper (note order of the words I used) to bat at 6. I think Sir J can improve and bat at 7. This would leave 4 slots open for the above pacers in pace-friendly conditions.

We would be lucky if even 3 of them play Problem is sharma is still in team and zack is wasting precious matches where these guys can learn so much. Dhoni is not going anywhere even if he loses captaincy unless he retires ..honestly things are not great but with these guys if they are handled well we can still have our best ever Problem with rotation will be that most of see guys won't play enough matches and regress instead let's first find 3 bowlers and keep playing them so that they get used to bowling with each other Shami,yadav and pandey are best we got no matter what people say here others need to keep playing a tours and keep pushing these and no ishant sharma for atleast 1 whole year

[Vijy]

We would be lucky if even 3 of them play Problem is sharma is still in team and zack is wasting precious matches where these guys can learn so much. Dhoni is not going anywhere even if he loses captaincy unless he retires ..honestly things are not great but with these guys if they are handled well we can still have our best ever Problem with rotation will be that most of see guys won't play enough matches and regress instead let's first find 3 bowlers and keep playing them so that they get used to bowling with each other Shami,yadav and pandey are best we got no matter what people say here others need to keep playing a tours and keep pushing these and no ishant sharma for atleast 1 whole year

Amen to that. I agree that the three you mentioned are very good. Perhaps the rest could be made to play some 'A' tours, or some other form of competitive cricket - more so than the Ranjis anyway. Most of the other names I mentioned also bring something useful to the table.

[express bowling]

as well as Bhuvi with Mohit and failed both times.

But he is either going to replace sharma or zack and we will fit in yadav too So attack looks fine to me Even of we play 3 medium pacers cos none of quicker guys are unavailable even still u cannot ignore this guy without giving a chance cos he has been consistent in ranji,a tours and every tournament he has played for some time .. He cannot be so bad that he can't even get into this weak Indian side

I I am not exacted against trying him out. He might even be quicker than what he thinks he is. The Ranji speed guns do not really convince me. But, while I am ok with one good medium pacer in the team... I will never be happy with 2 or 3 because such combinations have never ever succeeded in international cricket and I can't think of any reason why it may do in the future. Dhoni has a tendency of playing multiple medium pacers together. He has played Bhuvi with Vinay as well as Bhuvi with Mohit and failed both times. This team has 3 medium pacers, BK, Pandey and old Zak.

[Old guy]

Amen to that. I agree that the three you mentioned are very good. Perhaps the rest could be made to play some 'A' tours' date=' or some other form of competitive cricket - more so than the Ranjis anyway. Most of the other names I mentioned also bring something useful to the table.[/quote'] Yeah a tours for bowlers not in team and guys like Aaron to be selected regularly in Odis Harris normally bowls at pace of shami and siddle can bowl quick but he is even slower most days.. I don't think hitting 140 k will magically turn anyone into a good bowler obviously if we have Ishtar pandey here and another guy who insist as good as him in every way but with more pace I will pick him but right now it's either him or some one who is not as good as him with little more pace Tbh I will pick pandey over suyal and shukla anyway in test matches cos I have seen them all ball and pandey is easily the better bowler

[Vijy]

Yeah a tours for bowlers not in team and guys like Aaron to be selected regularly in Odis Tbh I will pick pandey over suyal and shukla anyway in test matches cos I have seen them all ball and pandey is easily the better bowler

Mitch's recent performances have increased a pace fetish amongst the Indian team supporters. The fact is that bowlers such as Phil and Asif had excellent records even while bowling around 135 kmph. Besides, as sabby suggested, we could have 2 bowlers who clock excess of 140 kmph in Yadav and Shami, and the third bowler can play a diff role in the team.

[CG]

Yeah a tours for bowlers not in team and guys like Aaron to be selected regularly in Odis Harris normally bowls at pace of shami and siddle can bowl quick but he is even slower most days.. I don't think hitting 140 k will magically turn anyone into a good bowler obviously if we have Ishtar pandey here and another guy who insist as good as him in every way but with more pace I will pick him but right now it's either him or some one who is not as good as him with little more pace Tbh I will pick pandey over suyal and shukla anyway in test matches cos I have seen them all ball and pandey is easily the better bowler

Suyal had a bad season but he has had very good fc career.suyal is a one to watch out for.

[Vijy]

Suyal had a bad season but he has had very good fc career.suyal is a one to watch out for.

Suyal's action when I saw him looked somewhat erratic. He is too injury prone as well.

[express bowling]

I am fine with Umesh, Shami and Pandey. I infact suggested this for SAF tour provided Pandey was tested in WI ODIs. Problem is, we may have Zak, Shami and Pandey which looks a bit innocuous. Another issue is of providing incentives to bow l quick. Harris wasn't a quick bowler. But he worked hard to become one because he knew that there was lesser chance of Australia picking a medium pacer. But he still remained a good bowler. In India, if we do not provide any incentive for good bowlers to bowl quick ... who will ? Pankaj who is a very good bowler who has added pace is ignored ... what message does that send to budding quicks ?

[Vijy]

I am fine with Umesh, Shami and Pandey. I infact suggested this for SAF tour provided Pandey was tested in WI ODIs. Problem is, we may have Zak, Shami and Pandey which looks a bit innocuous. Another issue is of providing incentives to bow l quick. Harris wasn't a quick bowler. But he worked hard to become one because he knew that there was lesser chance of Australia picking a medium pacer. But he still remained a good bowler. In India, if we do not provide any incentive for good bowlers to bowl quick ... who will ? Pankaj who is a very good bowler who has added pace is ignored ... what message does that send to budding quicks ?

Trundle, trundle, trundle your way Gently to glory? I fear that we will have an attack of Zak, Ishant and Pandey, along with Binney as an "all-rounder". It gives me the nightmares :giggle:

[express bowling]

Mitch's recent performances have increased a pace fetish amongst the Indian team supporters. The fact is that bowlers such as Phil and Asif had excellent records even while bowling around 135 kmph. Besides' date=' as sabby suggested, we could have 2 bowlers who clock excess of 140 kmph in Yadav and Shami, and the third bowler can play a diff role in the team.[/quote'] Many posters are saying that they will be happy if Pandey bowls 135 to 140 k. That is hardly pace fetish. I would call it just decent pace. The quickest in international cricket are bowling 140 to 150 k or even higher. What you seem to overlook is that Philander has bowled mostly in the really pacer friendly conditions of SAF. Also, he has had the great luck of bowling with the really quick Steyn and Morkel. How Philander would do if he had to combine with Ishant and old Zak while bowling in India...is not a tough guess. Asif had the ability to bowl 130 to 140 k. Plus, he too had the privilege of bowling with other quick bowlers. Most importantly, most great bowling attacks have featured two or more quicks. Hardly a coincidence I would say. Also...Why only Mitch...the two best attacks now have Steyn , Morkel and Mitch, Harris. While competing with them, it is but obvious that fans would want our team to have fire power too. I see near zero chance of Dhoni combining Shami, Umesh and Pandey in NZ unless Zak and Ishant are injured.

[King Tendulkar]

We screw it all up anyway. No idea how to groom fast bowler. yadav should have played tests and odis v windies and v SA. Then by now he would have loads of games under belt, moving forward and am sure would have improved loads and be someone we all want in team All the develoment missed and grooming missed. Thats why we end up with trundlers

[King Tendulkar]

Many posters are saying that they will be happy if Pandey bowls 135 to 140 k. That is hardly pace fetish. I would call it just decent pace. The quickest in international cricket are bowling 140 to 150 k or even higher. What you seem to overlook is that Philander has bowled mostly in the really pacer friendly conditions of SAF. Also, he has had the great luck of bowling with the really quick Steyn and Morkel. How Philander would do if he had to combine with Ishant and old Zak while bowling in India...is not a tough guess. Asif had the ability to bowl 130 to 140 k. Plus, he too had the privilege of bowling with other quick bowlers. Most importantly, most great bowling attacks have featured two or more quicks. Hardly a coincidence I would say. Also...Why only Mitch...the two best attacks now have Steyn , Morkel and Mitch, Harris. While competing with them, it is but obvious that fans would want our team to have fire power too. I see near zero chance of Dhoni combining Shami, Umesh and Pandey in NZ unless Zak and Ishant are injured.

Bowling attacks need to hunt as a group. Or at least as a pair. Presuure at both ends. We dont do that and seem to want carry 1 or 2 usless pacers in our attacks. No idea why We could have a good attack for once if plat it right, wont happen though, thats whats frustrating. We dont have to put up with trundlers as for once have dedent pace options

[express bowling]

Bowling attacks need to hunt as a group. Or at least as a pair. Presuure at both ends. We dont do that and seem to want carry 1 or 2 usless pacers in our attacks. No idea why We could have a good attack for once if plat it right, wont happen though, thats whats frustrating. We dont have to put up with trundlers as for once have dedent pace options

We have played Bhuvi + VK together. Also, Bhuvi + Mohit. All these bowlers are very good in domestic cricket. They have skill and their only shortcoming is lack of pace. Zak, who is a highly skilled pacer, failed to exert pressure in the 2nd test match because he was slow. Over the years we have played many really skilled but slow pacers like Prabhakar, Binny, Prasad, Mohanty etc. But Never been able to exert pressure on the opposition from both sides because of too many medium pacers. Yet, the wet dream of multiple highly skilled 130 k pacers or 127 k seamers winning us series after series of tests .... lives on among fans.